History about the beginning of humanity
matheus28: I've been reading a lot about how the humanity began... I really believe that Annunaki were our founders, someone here would like to talk about this, our ideias, experineces and histories? tkan you for this... Im 18 years old
DawnGurl: Matheus28 I suggest you start with Joseph Campbell's books, especially "The Masks of God" series. They will provide an excellent background for any further readings you may wish to do.
Zanjan: Human history wasn't founded - it evolved over hundreds of thousands of years out of a series of environmental events and small discoveries.
No one knows anything more than that until humans began burying their dead with the treasures the deceased held dear - that was the first recognized and understood spiritual expression outside of cave paintings - what you'd call *humanity*. Any other social norms or unusual practices were lost to antiquity.
The history of *humanity* begins with oral traditions that exist to this day but we have no way of knowing how much of those stories are factual (that is, without embellishment/fabrication/poetic license) until an event is first recorded in writing and supported by scientific evidence. We know who invented writing.
DawnGurl: Well Zan you're right; my thinking has changed. I was a fierce rebel as a teen and delighted in flaunting conventions. Now however my respect for tradition has deepened and my rebellious side has found expression in jazz. Im a professor of music/piano and am in a jazz band. I have read and re-read Campbell and find more meaning in his works now. I enjoy his Jungian viewpoint more now also and appreciate his insights into human behavior, especially as revealed through myths.
ghostgeek: I thought that Humanity was supposed to have evolved in Africa, got fed up with the neighbours and took a hike to pastures new.
Zanjan: Humans, yes, but humanity.....probably not till a bit later. We'd need some evidence they had a belief system/ideology beyond a simple social family order. It would have to reflect a sign they were humane, respectful, generous and fair in situations where an animal wouldn't be.
We really have no hard evidence of when that began. Once, it was believed Neanderthals buried their dead. Burying them with favourite trinkets would be the first sign of humanity.
ghostgeek: Have you heard about the Sima de los Huesos or "pit of bones" in Spain. There, supposedly, the oldest human DNA ever sequenced has been discovered. 400000 years old. Seems they found the deformed skull of a 12 year old girl, suggesting she was cared for by others. What makes us human may be very old indeed.
Zanjan: Yes, they say that caring for incapacitated others is one sign but I don't count that because many animals in a group do the same thing. Not to burst your bubble or anything.
I think signs of true humanity didn't start with race but with an individual in a family of a tribe and spread out from there, moving through the races like pick-up-sticks. It's a learned behaviour and humans are great mimics.
ghostgeek: You set a high bar Zanjan. We humans share tool use and even toolmaking with animals. The production of art is not unique to us either. Mmmm...what about the use of fire? I don't know of many animals that rub two sticks together. Yes, I think fire marks us out as different to the animals. I read recently that the human lineage was using fire more than a million years ago. That would certainly give us a bit of age.
Zanjan: Is that really such a high bar? I mean, look at generosity - this is a trait even animals have. They will share sometimes, and at other times, they'll give all their own to another and go without if there's a good reason. You'd think that would be easy for humans, yes? It is for kids but not adults - why not? Why is that such an unreasonable expectation?
I don't think humanity is judged by cleverness. Anyone can be kind, brave, compassionate, honest etc, no matter how dull-witted they are. Yet even amongst the smartest adults, these qualities, if they're seen, are in the stingiest amounts. Luke warm at best, just keeping up appearances - only if they see something in it for themselves.
Making fire isn't a virtue, it's a skill; some of us are utterly helpless without a lighter. So brainy are we that we have to send in search and rescue to locate someone who'd been lost for days and had hypothermia because they couldn't make fire.
So smart, they left the shelter of their car to walk home in a blizzard and were found dead. So brilliant, they stay put in an earthquake near the sea and build their nests over fault lines.
Where's the edge? (maybe this should be in the insanity topic)
ghostgeek: The word humanity has two meanings. It can refer collectively to the human species, to all of us smelly apes, or it can point to certain human traits like generosity, compassion, tenderness, etc. My reading of this conversation's topic is that it involves the former meaning of the word. To my way of thinking, it is humanity's intellect that distinguishes it from all other creatures that exist, or have ever existed, on this world. When exactly we humans ceased being merely clever animals and became truly sentient I do not know. A long time age, to be certain. All we can do is look at the fossil record and make deductions from whatever scant evidence exists. The use of fire, the wielding of tools, symbolism, intimations of an afterlife; these are clues. It is the best we have.
Zanjan: Well, I think if we're talking about the species of the human, we'd be calling it "Mankind". OTH, humanity comes from the word "humane", as in the way we treat each other. We were always sentient creatures.
While some of us act no different than a pack of wolves, we should be discounting the beastly behaviour and looking at what makes us noble creatures. When did that part start?
As I said, generosity, compassion and tenderness are all animal traits, which we've always possessed. What qualities makes us rise higher than that? I'd say its the ability to properly comprehend justice, to ensure equitable education, to be truthful and honest, to love our enemies, to avoid war, bloodshed and mayhem, etc.
That list isn't applicable to animals.
If, instead, you were talking about human brain development, we already have that information. That development tells us roughly when the evolving brain was capable of abstract mental constructs, ideology & expression of a Higher Power/Creator. What physical remnants can't tell us, before written history, is how mankind applied those things.
ghostgeek: I'm not sure if you're quite up to speed with this one Zanjan. The chap who started this thread believes that the Annunaki created us human beings about 300000 years ago to mine gold for them. The Annunaki are supposed to have come to Earth from another planet in the solar system because they needed gold to repair their atmosphere. When they became fed-up digging gold themselves, they crossed their DNA with a primative humanid they found here and voila, out we popped to do it for them. You might like to hunt down a few books by Zecharia Sitchin and bone up. Makes as much sense as any religious explanation concerning our origins, I suppose. Personally, I tend towards your view that we just evolved, like it says in most of the text books, but that's just my opinion.
(Edited by ghostgeek)
Zanjan: Well, the Annunakai is just about as much nonsense as one can make up. I don't read fiction but I hear of stuff like that anyway. While the book cover states it's fiction, TV shows don't. Whether they do or not, it would be easy to sort this one out.
The absence of scientific knowledge is evident (the gold for atmosphere is plain ridiculous) , not to mention absence of historical and physical evidence.
Seriously, a race so advanced as to get to earth from elsewhere is not going to be so boorish as to make slaves out of people! Many humans are more developed than that even now.
I go with the topic question, which is not "Did the Annunaki exist?"
ghostgeek: The Annunakai may be nonsense Zanjan but the man wants to talk about them. Humour him. He clearly isn't interested in when we all became cuddly goat huggers. For my part, I cannot understand why we haven't found all those ancient gold mines. You'd have thought all that digging would have left some trace behind it. Mmmm...perhaps that's telling us something but what could it be? Possibly that the Annunakai never existed. Oh dear, I seem to be agreeing with you Zanjan. This will never do.