Vegetarians/Vegans (Page 2)
nooneperfect: lol ok,pudding? people like that, well anyways i wl give it try
i think real thread moving somewhere else so better i will keep quite now ZIP
dellprinter: Hi mauzie, hi everyone,
Ok if you are not used to taking vitamins i recommend optisona which can now be bought at Lidl, taking multivitamins with dinner is good but if you are a hard core vegie i would take something to add to the diet.
Oh duck, if you've ever seen it, its brown meat with blackish brown skin and its full of oils.
As for Hitler lol, all the worlds psychopaths were or have been veggies at one point lol
Hitler lol only on wire can he come into a vegie forum lol
LiptonCambell: I find the entire concept of Vegans to be misguided and hypocritical- Vegetarians aren't that bad(okay, you don't want to kill an animal and eat its flesh- whatever)- but Vegans? The belief that we do not have the right to use or abuse animals? I mean, if you lived off the land, renounced electricity and running water and various other goods, and reduced your impact to that of nothing, I could respect that;
But to sit there on your computer, using electricity- which causes untold destruction and disease to animals- living in homes- destroying habitats for your own comforts- and using various tools, from metal to plastic, all of which leads to the death and destruction of animals- to cause all this suffering, and accuse others of being apathic and ignorant because they find nothing wrong with eating me- it strikes me as hypocritical.
We all cause animals harm- and the only solution is to either abandon modern conveniences, since they too cause harm and exploit animals- or accept that you are a hypocrite, complaining that others are doing the same as you, but others are wrong for it- while you are not.
dellprinter: Gees Lipton , lighten up
This is a vegetarian/vegan forum, where else would vegans get to have a say.
I am not a vegan but I can make an attempt to understand their point of view. We all damage the earth by our very existence but its about minimising the damage.
Hows does being a vegan bother you anyway lol
LiptonCambell: Wait....this is a vegan forum?
I Google'd "chatrooms" and this is the second one that came up.....where does it say this is a vegan forum? Maybe I made a wrong turn at Albuquerque.....(edit: Or do you mean thread?)
Still, it couldn't hurt to challenge some vegans beliefs- esspecially in the topic intended for discussion of vegans and their beliefs
LiptonCambell: Still, its the idea that someone out there feels that there is a great wrong in harming nature, and their solution is to only go as far as they do not lose their comforts.
Its like a group of people going around starting fires, but one person decrees they are superior to the rest, cause they stomp out the fire if it spreads to weeds. No matter what, you are causing untold destruction- and to think that, by eating a diet of only fruits, vegatable, and nuts, that you are somehow saving the world, or are morally superior, or are saving lives, is simply you lying to yourself. If you are truly worried about the damage we cause to the world and the life in it, there are far more productive things you can do- only it requires real conviction and sacarficing comforts
dellprinter: I think you are looking at this purely from an environmental impact point of view but i am sure there is probably a human emotional point of view to this subject.
It seems like you have had a bad experience with vegans.
I suppose wait for a response from a vegan and the debate begins lol
LiptonCambell: I just got more of chip on my shoulder over anything that creates a sense of pretentiousness and hubris as Vegans share, and hides behinds such concepts as rights in an attempt to force their beliefs- sometimes violently.
dellprinter: I agree that humans were made to kill animals etc but we live in a complex society where grains and vegies are plentyful. Modern human are more complicated these days. Yes we need to eat but we have a choice about what we eat.
Meat factories treat animals with cruelty. There is no need for this.
Primative man trapped and killed for his meat but did not impose obscene heights of cruelty like meat factories.
mauzie_: I agree 100% dellprinter.
The sad fact is that some people have no compassion.I can't even think about slaughter meat factories it just gets to me too much. I hate mistreatment of animals.
We don't have to eat meat these days - it's primitive and it isn't even good for us.
LiptonCambell: >>>The sad fact is that some people have no compassion.
Glad to see I wasn't wrong with my hubris comment. Who are you to challenge our compassion? We believe that the humane slaughter of animals for eating as completely ethical. You believe that the slaughter of animals as a by-product for such objects as Computers, Cars, and the production of electricity as completely ethical.
Neither of us are objecting to the killing of animals for personal comforts- but you have the hubris to dictate to me at which line I must not cross, or else you blame ME to causing harm- of having no compassion? And you expect me to play along with your little game and pretend like me choosing to kill animals is immoral, while you killing animals is fair and just- because you couldn't choose -NOT- to surf the net.
>>>I hate mistreatment of animals.
I agree, and I very much doubt that anyone here is promoting the mistreatment of animals- I'd be shocked to find someone here in favor of factory farms- but that's an issue of the consumer. If you don't want to see animals endure factory farms, then communicate with the butcher and get your meat from a source that you feel meets your ethical standards. Saying that animals are sometimes mistreated or housed cruelly, so we must abandon livestock altogether, is unnecessary to cause change(as is the violence)
>>>We don't have to eat meat these days - it's primitive and it isn't even good for us.
Meat does supply the body with certain nutrients- its true that certain vegetables can be used as an alternative, but in moderation, eating properly cooked and maintained meat is harmless(and, obviously, good for you)
mauzie_: I'll never change my views - I think eating meat the way we do is wrong.
We all know why we started eating meat as hunter gatherers in the cave - that I have no issue with, was done on a needs must basis and not on mass in factories where animals are treated literally like pieces of meat. We breed these animals in order to slaughter them and no I will never agree with that!!!!!!
Nothing should be subjected to such cruelty, who are we to treat them like that.
I'm entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.
And meat is absolutely not neccessary, there are many other sources of protein and nutrients which are far better for you.
I'm not saying here no one should ever eat meat , just that there should be far better practises in the meat industry and animals should be treated with respect .
dellprinter: I think being a vegetarian is an ethical decision made out of an informed decision. I think Lipton with regards to animal cruelty that it happens behind closed doors and therefore consumers are not aware of the product they buy.
If you take KFC Kentucky Fried Chicken which is a popular franchise especially with children I think you’ll find that we will end up in a quagmire of ethic avoidance. Chickens often have their beaks cut off because they tend to peck each other during their time in cramped cages. They are fed anti- biotics and are force fed using a tube.
Most consumers are not aware of this, KFC, McDonalds etc have their food laced in hydrogenated animal oils which is part of the cause of childhood obesity.
Is meat good for you? In moderation, I guess it is but red meat has been linked to colon cancer because of the enzymes used to tender the meat in the process.
Poor quality chicken meat is known to lower the immune system especially in children.
As for Compassion, I doubt anyone here would be cruel to an animal directly.
It’s a matter of choice in the end but who here could work in a meat factory?
LiptonCambell: >>>We breed these animals in order to slaughter them and no I will never agree with that!
I'm not asking that you do- I'm asking that you tolerate those whom disagree with you. Instead, you say such things as;
"some people have no compassion"
How is that respecting people who disagree? My problem isn't that I cannot tolerate Vegans- its the self-righteous hubris that seems to follow Vegans around. I object to you saying such self-righteous things, and your response? You demand the freedom to express the belief that I am somehow devoid of compassion, because I hold different ideals and ethics as you.
>>>And meat is absolutely not neccessary, there are many other sources of protein and nutrients which are far better for you.
Again, Electricity is not necessary. Why is the death I cause to eat meat somehow without compassion- but your acceptance that electricity kills animals is perfectly within the realms of compassion?
>>>I'm not saying here no one should ever eat meat , just that there should be far better practises in the meat industry and animals should be treated with respect .
And I believe that that should be up to the individual- that you have no place dictating peoples ethics to them, and if that is what people want, that that is what they will pursue.
>>>If you take KFC Kentucky Fried Chicken which is a popular franchise especially with children I think you’ll find that we will end up in a quagmire of ethic avoidance.
So don't shop there.
>>>Most consumers are not aware of this, KFC, McDonalds etc have their food laced in hydrogenated animal oils which is part of the cause of childhood obesity.
And who is at fault when children become obese- businesses for offering products, or negligent parents, for not properly raising their children?
>>>but red meat has been linked to colon cancer because of the enzymes used to tender the meat in the process.
Indeed- and there are diseases that you can also get from plants. Whats your point, other than fear mongering?
>>>Poor quality chicken meat is known to lower the immune system especially in children.
And eating moldy bread can cause flesh eating disease. Go figure- poorly maintained food can harm you. Meat is not special in this regard. Again, aren't you just fear mongering?
mauzie_: lipton campbell - to be honest I don't like people like you who cause argument for the sake of it and twist things to make your own points seem more valid. Your trying way to hard to make yourself sound intelligent.
I was referring to the practices in slaughter houses when I said some people have no compassion - not to all people who eat meat. There should be better practices in these places and that's a fact.
OMGShoes: This might sound rude or inappropriate, but I just can't help myself...
Vegeterians and vegans didn't choose eating vegetables because they wished to save animals from being eaten, but because they simply hate plants (vegetables).
Joke aside, I have no problem with vegeterians or vegans, but I feel compelled to speak my mind if someone feels the urge to tell me that eating meat is wrong or disgusting.
I have a friend who years ago converted into a full blown vegan, thanks to his spouse and now they don't allow meat even for their three dogs. They only buy vegetable based dog food, which sounds propostrous and quite odd to me.
Every person will eat what suits him/her.
And I came to realise that the only way I can get rid of the vegan terrorist that feel obliged to tell me my actions of eating meat are wrong - I only reply, that if I find a suicidal animal that wishes to land on my plate fully prepaired and cooked, baked, fried, etc...will that suffice for them to leave me alone?!
sassenach: I"m a veggie through and through. I do it because it's my personal choice, and I don't think I should have to answer to someone elses wishes. Everyone has their own thing.. being a veggie happens to be mine. I don't press it on anyone, I don't try and "convert" heck I don't even ask for veggie menus at restaurants.. I just eat whatevers available.. with no meat of course.
educated2day: I wish I could be vegetarian. that's hard. and the hippie comment was rude of that guy. If I was mad enough I would've told him to fuck off. rude prick