Support Ukraine in its fight for European Union! (Page 6)

ghostgeek: Sunny, the way events in Ukraine are reported in the UK gives the impression that your country is deeply divided. The suggestion is that the Crimea and certain eastern provinces naturally favour closer ties with Russia. The picture gained is that it would take the wisdom of Solomon to sort things out without plenty of tears being spilled. As far as I know, some pressure has been applied to Putin by the West and more could follow. The danger, of course, is of provoking a war with Russia. Yes, I do feel sorrow when I hear news of your country but I also feel fear. I hope you understand that we are not all dismissive of your plight but we do worry about what it might mean for us.

Oksunny: I understand you, Ghost, but you shouldn't be scared. Ukraine will stop Putin by any price. I think Putin will try to implement all his dirty plans to stop the elections of the President of Ukraine on the 25th of May. After this, he will, hopefully, be calm. And I hope so much that Russia in two years is going to have a new, democratic president and we'll live peacefully with Russia as good neighbours.

davidk14: .

ghost said;

I hope you understand that we are not all dismissive of your plight but we do worry about what it might mean for us.

davidk responds:

Ghost, the Russian invasion, which it was, was exactly that...an invasion. You must be brave and do what is right and not allow you fear to make decisions for you. This is not about you.

.

Slaughterin:
Anyone else find it funny that Davidk14 has both the US and Israel's flag as a display pic while ranting about 'an invasion' and 'what is right'.

What a load of crap.

Slaughterin:
Davidk's statement:

"Wait a sec...

The government that was overthrown was a Russian leaning regime. However, the people wanted to be part of the EU. That government was overthrown BECAUSE it was was a Russian buddy. The new government was not pro-Russia and Putin responded." -end quote

-Incorrect. And I'm surprise that Sunny who claims to be a Ukrainian didn't correct you.

The Government that was overthrown was a pro-Russian regime. -A democratically elected government at that. Russia has been 'buddies' with the Ukraine, no secret there. No secret on Ukraine's dependence on Russia as well.
The government was not overthrown because 'it was a Russian buddy'. It was overthrown by force by a coup, a non-democratically group who was against the government. The Ukraine ppl were divided on who wanted to take the offer given by Russia and the offer of the EU.
This isn't a 'new government' it is an interim government backed by the West. That interim government was not placed their by the people of Ukraine.

Not everything is black and white or good vs evil. The 'Evil Mother Russia' chants takes away from the real issue at hand.
It's should be on what Crimea wants, shouldn't it...

Oksunny: Slaughterin, I AM UKRAINIAN . And our pro-Russian and anti-Ukrainian, corrupted government, which made crimes against humanity was thrown by more than one million of people. For more than three months millions of Ukrainians in different cities were in the
streets, demanding the resignment of the government. But Yanukovich decided to shot the protesters and run away to Russia. Who on earth told you in Bogota that the government was thrown by a non- democratic group? After killing more than 300 people ( 105 were shot in the central square of the capital and 200 burnt in the crematorium), he ran away. He had no other way. Now we've got the most democratic government we've ever had. Yanukovich should be imprisoned sooner or later and stand trial. You need to watch different channels on TV.

Slaughterin:
I don't care if you are or are not Ukrainian, I don't take your words to represent all of Ukraine as there are those who were/are for Yanukovych and Pro-Russia. You only speak for yourself and your stated location is not a factor.

1. Was the coup elected by the Ukraine people in a general election. - No, they forcefully overthrew a government and were backed by the US.

2. A coup isn't a democratic government.

There has always been disruption in Ukraine's politics as well and clearly there is more to this.

+ If the people of Crimea wants to isolate themselves from Ukraine they should be given that option...although the whole issue isn't genuinely on the concerns of the citizens.

The people of the Ukraine are insignificant, Sunny, to both US/Nato and Russia. It isn't about what the people want or who is harmed, it is about military positioning and Putin's response stemmed from that.

Oksunny: The government was elected by the Parliament, which was elected by all the people. You have no idea what you are speaking about. You are lack of true information in your country

LiptonCambell: >>>But Yanukovich decided to shot the protesters and run away to Russia.

So now it was the Ukraine Government?

Before you insisted it was the Russians.....somehow...

LiptonCambell: >>>The government was elected by the Parliament, which was elected by all the people.

What are you talking about? Do you know what 'coup' means?

Yanukovich was elected into office. His decisions as leader was clearly unpopular, and led to riots, and a coup- his violent removal from office. This was not an election- people didn't vote for what leaders should replace him, or even if he should be replaced- there was no election.

Oksunny: Yanukovich followed all Putin's orders. His press-secretary Anna German said in her interview that Putin called him every day. But he never spoke to Putin in the presence of his comrades. Each time they had to leave the room

LiptonCambell: Haha you gotta source for that?

Or is this one of those "a friend of a friend of a friend of Anna heard this...."

Just cut the bullshit and start being honest for once, Sunny- the massacre was Ukraine on Ukraine violence, as a violent rebellion attempted to force out the current government, and bloodshed followed. There was no evil conspiracy that only one person in Yanukovich's staff noticed- it was a failing government trying to grasp at straws, and did something terrible- and you are trying to take those deaths and capitalize on it, using those poor souls as a tool to push your political beliefs.

Oksunny: So, there was no President, no government. What was the way-out? Parliament was the only legitimate body in the country. According to the Constitution the government is elected by the Parliament. The parliament voted for a new prime-minister and formed a new government. On the 25th of May there'll be new elections of the president.

Oksunny: Sure, Lipton. I watched her interview on TV. If you are good at Ukrainian I'll post a video with her interview

Oksunny: What are my political beliefs? That Putin is an aggressor? That Putin wants to restore the empire? That he won't stop? That he is ready to kill as many people as it would be necessary for his plans? I think you are pretty stupid, if you don't understand this simple thing.

Slaughterin:
Why did you delete Dave's comment, it was not an offensive one. If your position is to silence anyone with an opposing view it speaks volumes on what you stand for. I will leave you to that. I don't like the deleting of comments approach. What is stated in a forum thread doesn't change the world, we are all just discussing an issue.
In my country I get the news from both sides. I know that each side do not hold the 'truth', the US will not admit to their wrongdoings and neither will Russia. Reading the events from both makes more sense to me.

My statements are not lacking true information. If you can show me a source that goes against:
"1. Was the coup elected by the Ukraine people in a general election. - No, they forcefully overthrew a government and were backed by the US.

2. A coup isn't a democratic government."

Then by all means show it.

When a coup takes over a democratically elected government it is not one that was elected by the people. This government should not make any decision until there is a general election by the people. That is the Ukraine's issue, Crimean's issue is another one.

Slaughterin: It is very clear that Putin is worried about Russia's military position in Europe with Nato and the US putting pressure around Europe. Should he naively let the US get close to Russia's borders or strengthen his position by influencing the Crimean peninsula. He went about it very smartly since the people there clearly supports Russia and can be persuaded through the majority being of Russian decent.
The ousting of a pro-Russian government for a pro-Western situation made Kremlin uncomfortable, just as uncomfortable as the US was when Cuba got assistance from the then Soviets. I do not hold the US as saints, they are just as agenda-driven as Russia but they are forcing for hostility.

*Summary: It is not about restoring an empire or killing a mass amount of people. It is about military positioning and having Russia 'safe' from outside attacks. The US would've done the same (and has done the same for that matter).

Oksunny: Read my previous answer to Lipton. I explained everything in it. We are going to have our elections in May. We have no president right now. But our Prime-minister according to the Constitution is elected by the Parliament, and after Azarov resigned, a new prime-minister was elected in Parliament. What's wrong with it?

Slaughterin:
Mr Yatsenyuk must be a ghost then. A figment of the imagination.

Oksunny: why? he was elected by the parliament, the representatives in it are from all the regions of Ukraine

Oksunny: At that moment the situation inUkraine was the following - Government resigned, the president ran away to Russia. The only legitimate body in the country was the parliament.

Slaughterin:
The regions of Ukraine did not agree to this. You can not convince me that the people of Ukraine support this Yatsenyuk, Turchynov or any of these men. Who nominated them? Who place the nominees forward?Why wasn't someone from the previously elected government taking on that position.

There was nothing 'democratic' about this, Sunny...but that is usually the case

Oksunny: Ok, what do you think - was our Parliament elected democratically?

Slaughterin: Are stating that the Parliament consisted of the same members that were elected by the people? (Pay close consideration to the dismantled PM's who were on Yanukovych's side)