Support Ukraine in its fight for European Union! (Page 8)

davidk14: .

Was it illegal?

No.

Also, you should care who I call a patriot. You have any patriots? Hero's?

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To Eagster:

Different situation actually. Russia only has about 150,000,000, which is about half the population of the US.

Let's also look at the meaning of the word... Imperialism.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/imperialism

"....the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies."

So, the questions.....

Q: What rule or authority does the US have on what countries? Please, the key works in the question are "rule" or "authority". What country or countries does the US 'rule' and what authority does the US have over them?

Q: Colonies? Name one current US 'colony'.

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Slaughterin:
My statement stands that both 1 & 2. Don't waste my time.

Wrong again, I do not care who you call a patriot. Lose sleep over it if you wish.

davidk14: .

Checkmate.

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Slaughterin:
Of course it'd not matter to you what the Ukraine people think or if it is not a democratically elected government by the people.

Funny thing is you want to list your patriots and men you personally admire yet you see no wrong in the situation.

Checkmate is right.

davidk14: .

Checkmate as in you missed the most important part of this entire situation....

"....setting elections for 25 May".

You can shout all you want, they, the Ukrainian politicians first thought FREE elections would happen by the end of the year, however, they are having FREE elections next month.



If they vote to be Russian, so be it.

If they vote they want to have liberty and freedom....so be it.

I think the latter unless Putin moves in before May 25th.

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Slaughterin:
Why do you waste my time always? Davidk14, you asked me to prove my statements and I did. Instead of politely saying "Jack, you are right, I acknowledge your facts", you jumped to another topic. Rain check, I know that there will be an elections in May, my statements and comments to Sunny was on the interim government. I also previously stated that this government should not make any major decisions till then.

Keep up or shut up.

davidk14: .

Just respond to my factual comments and provide sources and reference materials and if you don't like my posts, don't get all hot under the collar.... getting up in my face. Just step on back. Perhaps you are not used to conversing and discussing facts and when your facts are proven wrong, it's 'your' prerogative to either provide 'further' documentation or just....step on back sonny boy. Unless of course you are a lawyer and lie for a living.

The interim government hasn't done anything 'provocative' and won't. It's only there to get this country to May 25th.



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Slaughterin:
Good that your first paragraph saved me from typing it to you, you were the one who addressed my comments after all.

Oksunny: Perhaps you will be surprised, Slaughterin, but the same old parliament works in our country, with the same deputies, that were elected in 2012. Members of the government, that escaped, were not the deputies.
You can not prepare and conduct elections for one day.
Preparation to elections takes time. According to the documents signed by Yanukovych and opposition, the elections are to take place to the end of year. So, it was agreed to held them on the 25th of May. We aim to choose a president, who will overcome a total corruption and will guarantee supremacy of right. 10 candidates are registered for this position now. So, we have from whom to elect. Candidates are from the western Ukraine, and from central Ukraine, and from the eastern Ukraine, they all have different political views and programs

Oksunny: 10 Things You Should Know About Russia’s Aggression

The analysis below was prepared by the Institute of World Policy (Kyiv, Ukraine), www.iwp.org.ua.

RUSSIA IN UKRAINE: 10 FACTS

1. The intervention is based on lies. Russia has invaded Ukraine under a false pretext that there were victims among Russian population in the Crimea. There is no single proof that any Russian was killed in the Crimea or in South-Eastern Ukraine.

2. Ukrainians do not want to join Russia. There is no single region in Ukraine where the majority of the population is willing to join Russia. Even in the Crimea the number of those who would like to see the peninsula as a part of the Russian Federation amounts to 41% of the population. Only 33% of locals in the Donetsk region would like to join Russia.

3. Ukrainians are not separatists. 80% in the South and 76% in the East of Ukraine refuse the idea of establishing an independent state on the basis of the South-Eastern Ukraine. Let us recall: The Constitution of Ukraine allows to make changes regarding the territory of Ukraine only through a NATIONAL, not local, referendum.

4. How are Russia’s interests being infringed?The interim government of Ukraine has NOT APPROVED ANY SINGLE decision that discriminates Ukraine’s Russian-speaking population: Parliament’s decision to repeal the law on regional languages has not come into force. NATO integration is NOT mentioned in the program of the new government.

5. The EU enjoys a stronger support. The majority of Ukraine’s population (55%) supported signing of the Association Agreement. Moreover, almost half of those (47%), who voted for the most popular in the South-East of Ukraine Party of Regions, supported the signing of this Agreement.6. How many Russians are there in Ukraine? Putin has claimed that there are 17 million of Russians in Ukraine. In fact, 17% of the Ukrainian population are Russians; it amounts to about 8 million people. The percentage is lower than in Latvia (where are 27% of the population are Russians) and Estonia (almost 26%).

7. Who are fascists and Russophobes? Four ministers of the new government were born in Russia. The new head of the Dnipropetrovsk administration, Igor Kolomoisky, is the Head of the European Jewish Council.

8. Russian-speaking citizens of Ukraine are not necessarily pro-Russian. The daily language for nearly half (45%) of the Euromaidan participants is Russian!

9. Ukrainians are against federalization. Most residents of Ukraine are against a federal structure of the country. 53% in the East and 63% in the South do not support this idea.

10. Ukrainians are patriots. 95% of Ukrainians consider Ukraine as their motherland. None of the military units of the Ukrainian Navy has surrendered to the Russian invaders or has sworn to the self-proclaimed “government of the Crimea”.

Sociological data comes from Democratic Initiatives Foundation, Kyiv International Institute of Sociology, Levada-Centre, Razumkov Centre, Russian Public Opinion Research Centre, DW-Trend, etc.

dave3974: these are not facts these are just things that you have made up
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fact you discriminate against those that are Russian speaking and discourage the use of their language

Ukraine is a made up country

the recent election showed overwhelmingly that the Russian speaking populace wanted to be free of ukrainkian dominance

the EU does not want you

the new Ukraine government is an alliance of corrupt and suspect parties including facists who have overthrown the legitimate government

you refuse to allow the russian speaking populace self determination

Russia has acted in a restrained and reasonable way throughout

dave3974: I think most recent developments confirm my view that Ukraine is an invented state, which came into existence because of the temporary (and predictably temporary) absence of Russian power rather than because it had the real components of a country – a common unifying language and culture (definitely absent) an economy ( never present in the first place) , viable defensible frontiers bearing some relation to its physical existence (not so much absent as actually negative) , the rule of law (absent) , the ability to defend itself against internal and external physical threats (absent) . Ukraine is a sort of John Major among countries. Just as Mr Major became Prime Minister because he wasn’t Margaret Thatcher, and stayed Prime Minister because he wasn’t Neil Kinnock, Ukraine became and remained a country not because of any positive qualities of its own, but because of the negative qualities of others. (For US readers, think of Gerald R. Ford, who became Vice-President because he was not Spiro T. Agnew, and President because he was not Richard M.Nixon) . In both cases, it was found that *not* being someone was not an adequate qualification for being somebody. And *not* being stifled by a feeble Russia in 1991-2 was not a sufficient qualification for sustaining an independent existence in 2014.

Had Ukraine been a true sovereign state, the removal of Crimea by Russia would have been inconceivable. The danger of war would have been far too great for Russia to have risked it. As it was, the action was completed with amazing ease, speed and efficiency, and those who claim they disapproved of it have implicitly admitted that it is irreversible. If they really believed that Crimea belonged in Ukraine, or that Ukraine exercised real sovereignty, they would not have behaved in this way. As it is, they plainly regard Ukraine as a playground, in which they can intervene at will. They only become sensitive about its supposed inviolability when a bigger boy turns up in the sandpit, knocks over their sandcastles, and kicks sand in their faces.

calybonos: A recent Telemundo poll showed overwhelmingly that the Spanish speaking populace in the United States wanted to be free of American dominance, but didn't want to jeopardize relations with their biggest drug clientele.

....and Taco Bell does make one muy bien burrito supreme.

dave3974: so it is business as usual for them then

davidk14: .

Dave3974 said:

"...I think most recent developments confirm my view that Ukraine is an invented state, which came into existence because of the temporary (and predictably temporary) absence of Russian power..."

Davidk14 responds:

From:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine

"...The country, including Crimea, is home to 44.6 million people,[5] 77.8% of whom have the Ukrainians nationality, with sizable minorities of Russians (17%), Belarusians, Tatars and Romanians. Ukrainian is the official language of Ukraine; its alphabet is Cyrillic. Russian is also widely spoken. The dominant religion in the country is Eastern Orthodox Christianity, which has strongly influenced Ukrainian architecture, literature and music."

Now Dave, you said it is an invented state? Would you like to respond to my post?

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Oksunny: No need to discuss it, David. I think Dave is clever enough to read and to understand the situation. I think he's just a KGB agent, who works for Putin, lol.
Dave, you are bad at History.
The territory of Ukraine was inhabited at least 44,000 years ago.
In the Middle Ages, the area became a key center of East Slavic culture, as epitomized by the powerful state.
A Cossack republic emerged and prospered during the 17th and 18th centuries.
Pylyp Orlyk was a Zaporozhian Cossack starshyna, Hetman, who wrote one of the first state constitutions in Europe. It established a democratic standard for the separation of powers in government between the legislative, executive, and judiciary branches, well before the publication of Montesquieu's Spirit of the Laws. The Constitution limited the executive authority of the hetman, and established a democratically elected Cossack parliament called the General Council. Pylyp Orlyk's Constitution was unique for its historic period, and was one of the first state constitutions in Europe.
By the way, ORLY Airport (Paris, France) was named after his son, Hryhor (Grégoire) Orlyk. So, you need to be more educated if you want to discuss the history of Ukraine.
At least, ask someone to teach you how to use Wikipedia.

Oksunny: But there's one good thing Putin made for Ukraine. Before the threat of war, he united all of us. Now the Ukrainians are united as they've never been before.
This video was taken in Lviv. Eleven football fans from the Crimea, Sevastopol were standing lonely,singing hymn of Ukraine.
And in several minutes football fans of the opposite team from Lviv greeted them like brothers. And helped them to shout : SEVASTOPOL!

LiptonCambell: people are rioting and killing each other in the streets...thats your defination of unity?

Oksunny: Those, who ordered riot police to kill, ran away to Russia. No one kills people now. Some of the snipers were kept.

Oksunny: it's too late in Ukraine, Lipton. So I'm off to bed

dave3974: And isn’t it interesting that John Kerry, the American Secretary of State also refers to Russian methods as ‘19th-century’. Actually, Russia tried to use several 21st-century methods to deter the EU’s aggressive grab at Ukraine, including many years of open and explicit protests at NATO’s relentless westward expansion, its own aid package and the very postmodern gas threat. It was when these didn’t work that it used naked force.

By the way, I note that critics of Russia accuse it of ‘expansion’ into Ukraine. This raises an interesting question, one again, of title to territory and where it comes from. Was French repossession of Alsace-Lorraine after 1918 ‘expansion’. Or was Czechoslovakia’s repossession of the Sudetenland in 1945 ‘expansionism’? Actually, both of these territories contain (or at the time contained) national minorities who were not necessarily comfortable with the rule of their liberators. Both have complex histories (some might say that Strasbourg is now French because of ‘expansionism’ on the part of Louis XIV. The main difference is that Ukraine was taken from Russia in 1992 by diplomacy, and by Russia’s absence of power, rather than by naked force (though of course naked force had been used to take Ukraine from Russia twice in the 20th century, events whichmost certainly influence all involved today).

Then there’s this gripping article for the same newspaper by the interesting and original Robert Fisk, which I mention just because it made my jaw drop:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/turkeys-actions-in-syria-see-pm-recep-tayyip-erdogan-go-from-model-middle-east-strongman-to-tinpot-dictator-9252366.html

duncan124:
"...Ukraine was taken from Russia in 1992 by diplomacy..."

That is just not the truth. The Russians decided to leave Europe.

I suspect old regime in Poland was active in the Ukraine after the Soviets left. True the old Regime in Poland was are result of the Russian occupation of Poland but very few people did much to stop it after the Russians had left.

Oksunny: Oh. One more expert in Ukraine appeared, lol. Why Poland? Putin says the USA

duncan124:
Then why did it stop after 1992? US policies continued.

duncan124:
Why did Poland change after 1992?

Because they saw that there had been another ' civil war ' across western Europe.

John Major had become PM and the Gays had violently ' acted up ' because they wanted then what Tony Blair only gave them seven years later. Polish officials saw it and took action to stop their pro-gay intelligence service.