Support Ukraine in its fight for European Union! (Page 9)

dave3974: ah the dodgy govermrnt spokesman from the Ukraine is back

dave3974: wales wanted more self government so we gave them their own parliament and the power to legislate, Scotland wants to be free of us so we allow them to vote on being a separate country and we will respect the result.
In the Ukraine Russians who where never consulted about being part of the country that was set up want to be free-------they are jailed , threatened , shot , tanks are sent-------- AND the us blames the Russians----who is the uncivilised

ghostgeek: If the news reports are to be believed, there are a lot of well armed, well trained, men occupying government buildings in the east of the Ukraine. They seem more effective than anybody the Ukrainian government can call on, which makes me think they're not simply protesters with a few guns. We in the West may not want to get involved but that is no reason to deny that Russia is orchestrating much of the mischief we're hearing about.

LiptonCambell: But the notion that if someone has something to benefit from something happening, they must be guilty, is a faulty line of reasoning. Even if it's a third party being involved, there are dozens of groups that could have their hand it- NATO, for one.

It's wrong to assume that it's Russia pulling strings because, why not.

ghostgeek: I read a report in a good quality sunday newspaper this past weekend on the trouble in eastern Ukraine. A reporter form the paper asked a man guarding one such occupied building where he got his gun from. He pointed at the Russian flag flying from the building. The man was obviously Ukrainian, had once served in the Russian army and was now a builder. Local people are clearly involved, but so are the Russians. Another report, in a different paper, and also on the radio, spoke of one person involved in these protests identifying himself as a Lieutenant Colonel. I live a long way away from the Ukraine, like most people, so I depend on news reports that may be inaccurate. Those reports unfailingly paint the Russians as manipulating the situation for their own advantage. To me, it starts to seem a creditable accusation, one that makes me feel very uneasy.

LiptonCambell: Given the level of propaganda swirling around the subject, I'd have to see the report myself, and come to my own conclusions. A few pages ago, Sunny was insisting that Russians were holding kindergardeners hostage- there's alot of misinformation floating around, and alot of organizations trying to gain undue sympathy

Oksunny:
Hopefully, you can understand Russian, Lipton.
Capture of the city police department in Kramatorsk by Russian terrorists (Putin calls them FSB special forces, we call them "green men".) They spoke typical St. Petersburg's accent. No one use such words as they do in Eastern russian-speaking Ukraine.

davidk14: .

It is so obvious that Putin has influence over the Russian supporters who I believe were bussed in to create havoc and chaos so as to / inflict / insert / himself into the Ukraine, one way or another.

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Oksunny: All wise people have no doubt that Putin wants to capture the whole Ukraine. And no doubt, that Ukraine will try to stop him, but instead of thinking about our future economics and elections, and plans, we have to turn all our efforts to stop that crazy Putin. Shame on you, Dave and Lipton, for your narrow-minded statements. I would never believe that people, who live in UK could support such a dictator as Putin. Only because of russian gas, Europe closed its eyes for the deaths of many peaceful women and children in Chechnia, pretending that nothing went wrong there. Now, to keep your asses safe you pretend that you don't realize what goes on in Ukraine. Shame on you!

dave3974: shame on you for telling such lies , why not behave in a civilised way , stop the propaganda and let the Russians free.
Your lies hit a new low last week when you tried to smear the Russians by pretending they had printed a letter asking jewish people to register------have you no shame

davidk14: .

OKSUNNY said:

All wise people have no doubt that Putin wants to capture the whole Ukraine.


Davidk responds:

I agree.


OKSUNNY said:

And no doubt, that Ukraine will try to stop him, but instead of thinking about our future economics and elections, and plans, we have to turn all our efforts to stop that crazy Putin.


Davidk responds:

I agree.


OKSUNNT said:

Shame on you, Dave and Lipton, for your narrow-minded statements. I would never believe that people, who live in UK could support such a dictator as Putin. Only because of russian gas, Europe closed its eyes for the deaths of many peaceful women and children in Chechnia, pretending that nothing went wrong there. Now, to keep your asses safe you pretend that you don't realize what goes on in Ukraine. Shame on you!

Davidk responds:

I again agree.


Dave3974 said:

shame on you for telling such lies


Davidk responds:

It is a shame you are uninformed.


Dave3974 said:

why not behave in a civilised way , stop the propaganda and let the Russians free.


Davidk responds:

Yes, putin needs to set the Russian people free. This we can all agree on.


Dave3974 said:

Your lies hit a new low last week when you tried to smear the Russians by pretending they had printed a letter asking jewish people to register------have you no shame


Davidk responds:
And exactly who do you think printed that anti-semetic propaganda??? Pleez…unless you are just playin…you really need to read more.

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ghostgeek: I don't speak Russian so I don't know what was being said but the guys in uniform didn't look like armed civilians to me. Not exactly what I'd expect a rabble of protesters to look like. The video below is more what I'd have had in mind:

dave3974: today we heard that the Ukraine government has set troops on the protesters and there have been deaths---the restraint shown by putin is incredible

OCD_OCD: Putin is required to show restraint because this isn't happening in Russia. It's happening in another country. If Putin wants to slow things down, then those that are Pro-Russia need to be invited to move to Russia and out of the Ukraine.

dave3974: it is their home , why should they move , if this was bush instead of putin there would be mayhem

OCD_OCD: Not really, Dave. Here in the US if people want to live here, they must adhere to our US laws. If someone wants to live under the laws of another country, then they need to go there. If they see themselves as "Russians", then they need to remove themselves and live there.

How would you feel if, say, Scotland wanted to take over all of the public buildings in England? Would they have that right? Actually, since they are part of Great Britain whereas the Ukraine is not part of Russia, Scotland would be perceived to have a better chance at being understood for taking over than what is going on in Ukraine.

Oksunny: Dave, why one of the terrorists who was killed can not be identified in his homecity in Ukraine? Why don't we know the names of those pro- Russian protesters? Because their home cities are in Russia. And they are not protesters, they are soldiers of Russian special forces, who act like terrorists, and, of course, local criminals help them, as they are well paid. Actually, Putin is a sponsor of terrorism in Ukraine.

LiptonCambell: It almost sounds like no one besides Russian Soldiers and Ukraine criminals protested....

duncan124:
I think you have to remember that Russia not only leased the Crimea for use as military bases it also brought the area when the Ukraine offered it for sale. The Crimea was owned by Russian ministries.

I think the story is about Poland and other American sponsored regimes in Europe.

davidk14: .

I think the story is about how the Soviets, Americans, British carved Europe up after WW2, how the USSR was dissolved with the Berlin wall being brought down, how freedom enveloped those new entities and now...how Russia wants it all back.

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duncan124:
Even Portugal prosecuted sex offenders.

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dave3974: if the americans had done the decent thing and re located from the areas of mexico they were squatting on there would be no texas.

duncan124:
Mexico retained its historic boundaries. The comparison does not fit. The internet story started after the winter Olympics which showed the Gays to be unable to maintain their hold on communications and is targeted at Warsaw, Berlin, Lisbon and London.

Once the story is debunked you will find no one has said anything about it except those that have left or are leaving such as Tusk.

dave3974: dave14 could not have put it better