Petition: Wire should Un-Ban Colin

StarryStarryNight: Colin was banned because he was speaking up against bullying in Wire and voicing his concerns that not much is being done to moderate bullying. He posted some threads in the forum pages to express his disappointment, urging the admin of the site to do more to protect users against online bullying. Wire deleted his threads after a few days and subsequently banned him.

I know there are other users who also feel that more should be done to moderate the bullying that can happen in chatrooms and forums. For example:

Topic: Wireclub Help

His concerns and grievances are totally valid. I’m amazed at how fast it took wire to ban an old-time member like him who had contributed so much to the activity in the forums – and in a positive way too! He was banned just like that. Whereas he has endured the insults, mocking and harassment from other users patiently for months! He reported them, but they are still around.

I strongly feel that it was not justifiable for Wire to ban Colin. He was a victim of bullying. And the bullies are still around. Makes sense? I don’t think so.

cowpoker: What do we want?
Un-ban Colin!
When do we want it?
NOW!!

cowpoker: Hey, a two-man protest is pretty good for our apathetic generation. We do specialise in setting the bar low. Three more people and this could be the greatest rally of our times!

Un-ban Colin! Un-ban Colin! Un-ban Colin!

RUBY: Colin was banned
that doesn't mean he can't come back
his account was closed
can always make another

StarryStarryNight: I don't understand why he was banned in the first place? Is it possible to re-open his old account?

cowpoker: Not sure there's any victory in subverting the system.

Sneaking back in with a new ID kind of defeats the purpose of taking a stand and criticising admin in the first place. And having a mod advocate doing it, kind of defeats the purpose of being banned.

Retracting the ban in recognition that he didn't deserve it would be better. Besides, if he starts over with uploading all those photos of his cat, you're really punishing all of us!!

RUBY: has to make a new 1
why he was banned?
simple for being stubborn
first he never reported to any mod past months for being bullied or whats over
or better to Admin..that was a lie
sec a user posted a name on a thread
nobody knew was his he could've simply report to a mod and we could've removed it
he went on forums posting 2 threads about it saying his name was mentioned on a thread
i (forum mod) was ill so offline and Admin wasn't online either so his name was removed 1 day later
not happy he went and posted other 2 threads saying wire mods and Admin don't take thigns seriously after Admin and I appologised for not removing that name earlso ier
he kept offending
Admin removed those 2 threads as in saying please let's move on and i talked to him in pv message explaining what happened
he agreed with me
but not happy he posted another thread complaining again when Admin removed it
that's the reason he got banned..wouldn't let go

StarryStarryNight: I can't agree that banning was the right solution in Colin's case though. He's harmless and was just voicing his frustration. You know he's a jovial kinda guy, not malicious or anything. What harm did he actually do? I just felt Wire's reaction to ban him was too swift and too harsh.

Could it not have been handled better? I've seen other users post stuff that are worse than what he posted. They just got their posts removed and they weren't banned.

RUBY: I think there's ways and ways to go on things without offending or causing trouble
I know he must've been fustrated knowing his name was there and nobody was doing anything
we're human and like all human make mistakes
Admin and myself appologised and he wouldn't stop
kept offending
1st what tells us that was his real name?
2nd..why let everyone know? he put it in evidence when nobody knew was his real name
could've simply reported it to us and we could've removed it
not make 5 threads about it
right?

cowpoker: I agree, Ruby, nobody would have known it was him until he said so. This time. But I got the feeling that owning it and announcing it was Col's way of being pre-emptive.. like remove the power (of the person who posted it) to threaten further revelation.

I don't necessarily even agree with everything Col said or how he went about it, but it simply doesn't seem right to me that he would get banned for venting in a possibly less than constructive manner. Don't we all, from time to time? Perhaps deleting the complaint threads was just inflaming the situation, giving him a greater sense of grievance than he already had, hence more and more postings?

Since the complaints were made publicly, if admin had posted a decent response publicly and then just ignored any further rantings, most of us would have simply judged it all for the storm in a teacup that it was. Deleting the complaints, however, appeared almost dictatorial, intolerant of dissent.. and without being privvy to the private conversations that took place behind the scenes, the disappearance of the threads actually lent them credence. Bit of transparency, and mods need not keep getting dragged back into it and having to justify and repeat themselves ad nauseum.

Regardless of whatever reasoning either side has here, the injustice is that most people get much lesser penalties for much greater offences than mere stubbornness.

RUBY: thing is--------- that user that posted that name is someone that Colin never got along with
so like I said what tells us that name was really his?
now what if that user instead of being someone not welcome in wire cause on permanant ban was a user that simply posted that name for a question or something'
we ban a innocent cause Colin says so?
cause he doesn't like him'
it's like you saying Olivia?
means my name and let's say i want you banned i run in forums and say cowpoker posted my real name i want her banned
how would you feel^
this is an exmaple of course i have nothing against you at all
and when Admin removes a thread means move on or that thread is not oppropriate
so it's silly going on and make another..
we're here to enjoy not make threads accusing others or reporting in forums
there's many ways to report something
contact Admin or a mod we'll look into it and try to help as best we can
going on forums or in feeds posting about a user makes you as bad as hm/her

StarryStarryNight: But all these things you are saying is besides the point, Ruby. The point is that he didn't commit any serious offense. Nothing that could justify him being banned.

Wire closed his account just like that. Just coz he was upset and posted stuff, urging wire to do more about bullies here. That's not wrong...a lot of users here would appreciate for more to be done to moderate bullying.

But from what I gather, admin then accused him of being part of the problem. That's not empathetic at all. All he wanted was reassurance. If you're the victim, would that not be rubbing salt into the wound? Can't blame him for getting upset after that.

And before Colin posted his complaint in the forums, he did write to Admin twice to complain about The Scientific Method thread. He told me about it. Some users there kept posting insults at him, and one even accused him of sexual misconduct! And the posts were removed. And that guy who accused him didn't get banned. He just got his post removed. And Colin is banned. It's not fair. Accusing someone of sexual misconduct is a more serious offense.

I think Wire owes Colin an apology for banning him. It's just not right, you know.

harlett anathema: Ruby.....good morning...excuse me.... for joining in..

but didn't colin whom perhaps we ought not be talking about... say he was troubled..outraged over having his private life and primary email account broken into... by ???? who he believes is here as a member who began accusing him of being some kind of pedophile.. and that this person sent emails out too everyone in that email address book... after breaking into that address..

maybe it's me... but i think i get why he couldn't let go of that assault..
and well i wanna THANK HIM...... for giving me a heads up reminder just how spite full some folks can be.. and well dirty dealing...ya gotta be dirty dealing too freakin break in someone else's private life with malicious intent..


... i know he then took advantage of the frame of mind he was in.. and griped out loud about folks who disrupt threads.. with flaming.. thread crapping... e-bashing...it's amazing what the electronic flaming thread crappers get away with..

.. isn't a flaming thread crapper someone who assaults a on going usually live thread that folks are having a lively debate and conversation on.. with hurling insults at one of the participants over their posting...that they never let up at....doesn't the staff then have to endure a specific someone being reported every time they start in at that nonsense of theirs...

there should be a solution that costs the flaming thread crapper who hurls personal insults ...


mean while........HEY OLE' DAWG ........

harlett anathema: Yes i have a suggestion....

LOCKS....LOCK out the chronic flaming forums thread crappers from being able to post out here ...i don't hate anyone who so ever.. i just wanna be FREE of the flaming thread crappers....being confined to ya friends list or else where in Wire is better then being ...

RUBY: guess you don't know nothing at all
both i mean firststep and harlet
so I have nothing else to say

harlett anathema: did i miss something when i ran off to prep and twice fine grind my Beef..

is no doubt in my mind RUBY that were not clued into the HALF of it.. and that there is NO need for us too be clued into...that half....

it's too bad that after airing all of that several times out here...in forums that he wasn't able too keep it to pm & emails behind the scenes...

yet.. i am personally grate full that he couldn't...sometimes we all need to be reminded...that some folks aren't just being hard & harsh to get along with.. and that they actually mean some of us if not all of some harm & stress....

orkanen: I would prefer he got his account reinstated, knowing what kind of a person he is. Maybe he didn't followed procedure as you would wish he did, perhaps he should have complained sooner about other users, but he didn't. Instead, he first began complaining when someone crossed a line he deems personal.

I got to read the last thread he posted before he was banned, what I saw was frustration for lack of moderators. Do you kiss and make up, no questions asked, when not taken seriously on serious issues? I don't.

Wireclub Admin: I have no reason to oppose Collin's return to Wire if he is willing (and able) to do so peacefully. He was a good user for so many years, closing his account was a painful decision

calybonos: My daddy used to say, just before he stomped the snot out of me:

"This is going to hurt me more than it does you."

But somehow, I was the one who had to limp to the refrigerator to go get him a beer afterwards.

cowpoker: Ruby, I don't envy the mods / admin their jobs ...must suck to be constantly embroiled in other people's disputes. Or having to explain why you're not. Or whatever. And of course you have to be careful about false accusations or joining anyone's personal crusade. But impartiality would mean not disallowing anyone's crusades either, even if they annoy the crap out of you. As much as I wouldn't like to be accused of anything, I could live with it so long as I had a chance to defend myself, and didn't find myself out on my arse without evidence of wrongdoing. I don't think defending yourself against constant bullying or malicious accusations is really in the same league as the bullying itself, however aggressive the defense may be.

Admin.. uhm.... pretty please?

StarryStarryNight: @ admin

" I have no reason to oppose Collin's return to Wire if he is willing (and able) to do so peacefully. "

I would like to state that Colin has always been a peaceful person. So you need not make it seem like you are being generous by giving him a chance to return if he behaves. His account should not have been deleted in the first place. You screwed up. Big time. He is a nice, jovial, friendly person who never hurts anyone. He's been here a long time. He helps people. He defends other users who were bullied although he was being bullied himself. He's been provoked many times, yes. But he bore it patiently too. And he defended himself when it got too much, yes. He had every right to defend his character.

It seems to me that wire needs to do some soul-searching. He may be just one member out of the millions you have. But he was a victim of bullying. There are other victims who stayed quiet or just left wire and terminated their membeship here, but he spoke up. And you deleted his threads. He wanted to be heard so he made new threads. And you deleted those too. And then you deleted his account. Are you going to delete this thread too?

He didn't deserve to be banned although you may find him to be stubborn. That just seems taking the easy way out so you don't have to be accountable for anything. It would do better for Wire's image if you apologize for banning him and reinstate his account. Or else, it just seems that wire is a place where the line between right and wrong isn't so clear. A victim is banned. And his bullies remain.

You may find him "unpeaceful" just because he criticized wire publicly in the forums. But he only did that because he wanted more to be done to protect users. It's not invalid. His real name was posted and it was only removed 3-4 days later.

Did you not ask him - "Why can't you be the bigger person that drives change in the community?" How is he supposed to do that? He highlighted bullying and lack of moderation because he wanted things to change. But he got banned.

StarryStarryNight: By the way, I believe Colin would have made a great mod. Wire could use someone like him to make this place better. He believes strongly in doing the right thing and upholdng principles, even if it might make him unpopular.

Wireclub Admin: Firststep, I do not question Colin's past as a good member of this community but once the situation escalated, it became clear that he wasn't in agreement with our ToS which is a requirement to use this service.

Our disagreement was rooted on his belief that Wireclub is under the obligation to police its users - which is fundamentally incorrect. Every user on Wire is ultimately liable for their behavior and we do the best we can to protect the community, as a courtesy that should not be confused with an obligation.

I also explained to him that if someone is being seriously bullied, they should contact their local police for advice and that our policy was to cooperate with law enforcement to deal with cases of bullying within the framework of the law.

Colin fundamentally disagrees with our position, a position which is also part of our ToS. Since acceptance of our ToS is a requirement to use Wire, we had make the hard decision to close his account.

StarryStarryNight: I don' understand. What does policing them mean? Monitoring them? So Wire is not obligated to monitor people and their posts, am I right? What about when you’re given feedback about users who display inappropriate behaviour? Will you take action?

I checked out the "Terms & Privacy" page of this site. This is what I found:
Things that will get a user banned:
•Misrepresenting your gender, age or trying to impersonate another member;
•Posting pornographic or content that is deemed too vulgar;
•Trying to circumvent any of our security features and or access other member's private information;
•Spamming;
•Bullying;
•Selling Wireclub Credits;
•Buying Wireclub Credits from anyone other than Wireclub itself.

So…if you have to ban users who don’t comply with the terms of this site, why are the bullies still roaming freely here even though they were reported? That’s what making me confused. I know Colin has complained to you about some users spamming, insulting and persistently attacking him in The Scientific Method thread. One user even went so far as to accuse him of sexual misconduct. His posts were removed but he was not banned. And another user had her posts removed too because they were unnecessarily malicious to Colin. They’re both not banned, despite breaking the terms by bullying another member. Why? Because you used your discretion instead of following the terms by the book? You don’t HAVE to ban them. Just like you didn’t HAVE to ban Colin?

Are these your words?

“For as long as I operate this site, kindness and politeness will always trump "free-speech". Anyone who believes that "free-speech" is more important than treating their fellow human beings with respect and decency is welcome to chat somewhere else. Asking questions is fine, and it will always be fine as long you do so respectfully and in a way that is positive to the community”

You posted it in a thread. The name of the thread is "Ideas and Suggestions" in Off Topic, page 3 of the Off Topic archives, on page 29 of the thread:

Topic: Off Topic

The bullies broke the terms and clearly went against the principle you espoused above. And they’re not banned. What does it mean? Did Colin get banned for wanting to uphold the same principles you have? Isn’t that one huge irony?

Wireclub Admin: I believe I have just covered that, Colin's account was closed because he doesn't agree with our ToS at a fundamental level. He is welcome back as long as he comes to the understanding that we enforce our rules at our own discretion based on the resources we have available to us - and that each user is ultimately responsible (and liable) for their own behaviour.

StarryStarryNight: Ah, I get it now. Should have seen it sooner but guess I was looking through rose-tinted glasses. Now it makes sense. The rules, terms, ToS are here to protect the admin, mods and the site from liability, accountability and responsibility. They are not meant for protecting users of the site.

Silly me

You might want to add complaining about bullying as one of the things that might get a user banned..just a suggestion