Deletion of entire topics

anym: I am disappointed that the "Philososphy of Mind" thread was totally deleted rather than just the offensive posts. Of those there were doubtless several, perhaps many. At least one of them was mine and for that I apologise (even though I felt I was responding appropriately "in kind" to the plain language suggestion that I should F**k off - by indicating flippantly that I was indeed F**king off as requested.

I hope that it will not be normal practice for moderators to wipe out whole subjects even though they contain valid and thoughtful contributions - like some of mine for instance (joke, joke, don't shoot!)

cardboard123: ^ I agree, it was very disappointing when it was deleted.

StarryStarryNight: The creator of the thread has not violated any TOS. Unless trying to encourage constructive discussion is considered a violation of the terms of service here.

Which would be a shame.

Geoff: Admin works in mysterious ways.

I am sure that while it is in Wireclub's best interests for the people who use the service to not feel that they are subject to the whims of a tyrannical administrator, don't forget this is a privately owned website not a democracy.

If it is felt that a thread was not conducive to good order then admin probably felt it was in the best interests of good behaviour to remove it. I know it can feel annoying when subject to what seems an injustice; but it's not an injustice, it just seems unfair.

anym: I believe that the moderators do their work voluntarily and I understand that it could be tedious and frustrating to selectively delete offensive posts. I am grateful for the willingness of folks to BE moderators at all, and mindful of the fact that consistently perceived fairness is difficult to maintain.

My disappointment remains about complete removal of the specific topic "Philosophy of mind" - as does my more general hope that it will not become normal for moderators to delete entire threads

Geoff: It does happen, but it is rare.

lori100: There was no reason to delete the thread he worked hard on, I hope that will not become common place....

Aura: Does anyone have a club left over set in Philosophy or Science? I just checked my own club, but you can not change the club name, nor the subject it is set in. What you can do, is make it "invitation only" and if I remember correctly, this will restrict posts on the forums of that club to members. I think it could be a good way around trolls, if we could invite those people who we enjoy debating yet have no desire to see their random thoughts appear on our walls.

lori100: How about make all of Wire a gated community that would shoot undesirables who try to get in?

Geoff: **Raises hand**

Club: Debate Club

Geoff: But it won't let me make it invitation only

StarryStarryNight: @ Mysterious Admin

Please restore the Philosophy of Mind thread. It's a wholesome thread full of nutrition. It's not the creator's fault that some nuts chose to drop by and made unwholesome posts. A few nuts does not an entire thread spoil.

Thank you.

cowpoker: Please put it back. It was interesting and entirely inoffensive. Why are a couple of trouble makers being allowed to spoil it for the rest of us?

Outbackjack: Yes lets have it back.

StarryStarryNight: I was told that the thread was removed because Colin deletes posts from users who disagree with him. I can testify this is not true because I do follow the discussions in his thread. And I know Colin. He loves hearing another point of view because that's what constructive discussion and debate is all about. He doesn't delete posts from users who disagree as long as they remain civil. But some users disagree and theirs posts get rude and abusive and sometimes, their intention is just to crap on the thread - I believe Colin has the full right to delete these posts.

Outbackjack: This was inevitable.Accusations were bound to be made about people deleting comments in threads they created.Whether Colin deletes posts or not is not the real issue.

Reinstate the thread and lets go back to people not being able to delete comments that aren't theirs.I would say lets go back to the early days of Wire where you could not edit or delete comments.What you see is what was originally posted.

cowpoker: We requested the ability to "host" our own threads and delete posts precisely because of thread crapping, irrelevance and abuse. Accusations of deleting without justification is a small price to pay for having the ability to keep things civil and on topic (and it's usually obvious that such accusations are only made by people with an axe to grind). Anyone who feels like they've been deleted unfairly can complain to a mod (it's more efficient than having to get the mod to do the deleting, since most deletions won't be disputed). Or they can refrain from participating in those threads and start some of their own instead (and anyone who makes a habit of being heavy handed with the delete button will soon find their threads pretty empty). It works fine, in theory... until whole threads get unjustifiably deleted by the mods themselves.

anym: I definitely approve the ability to host any threads I open, and to edit my own posts. That lets me correct mistakes of language, logic and fact and even remove things I just plain shouldn't have said. If I'm quick enough maybe nobody will have seen them. Some other forums have a time-limit on the ability to edit, so if there's been plenty of time for others to see how stupid I can be, it's too late to take it back. In which case a correction/apology post is in order.

I equally approve the delete function on one's "own" topic - think it's a great idea, if sometimes a bit tricky. Instead of making multiple deletes it might be better if we could block offenders from posting to the topic - after more than one offense and with suitable warning. Could be abused of course, but no more so than the deletes. If things get sorted out the block could be lifted. Maybe too an undelete button could somtimes be useful.

And in case I didn't metion it before I'm disturbed and very disappointed when a whole well-developed topic is obliterated because of interruption by some objectionable posts or by deletions of them.

anym: I guess it would be courteous (I've never done it) to privately inform the author of a deleted post, of the reason for the deletion - together if appropriate with a civil invitation to re-post an edited version. Again, if private messages got out of hand there's a block button plus the option of a report to moderators.

By golly, fairness is hard acheive and even harder to plan for.

Outbackjack: But that's just the thing.Fairness would be the Wireclub community having equal rights and the author not having special rights. These forums should belong to everyone and not some self appointed fuhrer.

anym: Fairness is a very flexible concept, largely in the eye of the beholder. But civility in disagreeing about it, is quite possible. I ask all who post here to maintain a courteous attitude even when expressing a negative stance to something that others have said.

cowpoker: Where's the unfairness, Outback? Everyone has an equal right to start and moderate their own thread.

Outbackjack: and expect that their posts will not be deleted. Let's face it there are plenty of knuckleheads around here and if one of those starts a topic then it could turn into a great discussion.

The knucklehead may decide to censor it and you could have 20 other people missing out.

This would be disempowering to the wireclub community as one person would have complete ownership over it.

anym: The topic for discussion - please - is intended to be: The deletion, by moderators, of entire threads - as opposed to selective deletion of TOS-offensive posts. I've allowed myself to be sidetracked into other (also interesting) considerations. They could be created as new topics by anyone interested enough to do that. Meantime I'll try to stick to my topic, and encourage others to do the same.

StarryStarryNight: It appears that Admin has informed Colin that he doesn't think Colin is involved in any wrongdoing.

I'm relieved to hear that at least Admin has clarified that part. I had initially contacted the forum mod to ask for why it was deleted. I had contributed to the thread and was following it with interest. And I was informed that it was because of deletion of posts by Colin, as what I stated above.

So now, where we stand is that Colin has not done any wrong in deleting those posts he did. He did so with good reason. Admin doesn't think he's guilty of any wrongdoing either.

So, can we have the thread back, please?