What do You think of islam? please all must write and contribute :) (Page 6)

ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Zanjan has to twist the facts to try and fit her beliefs. Unfortunate, but there it is.
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Fog Swept Glade
(Post deleted by Fog Swept Glade 5 years ago)
briansmythe
briansmythe: Yep its a circular argument that goes around in circles
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Sandra057
Sandra057: kissass
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Ghost, about Joshua – when he lived, they were foreigners in a foreign land. Not yet a nation, they were a motley crew, seeking to build one. He’s best known for crossing the Jordan River (funny, since it’s just a creek, not like the Rubicon, which is about 2 feet wider), and for breaking down the walls of Jericho.

Moses had defeated two kings east of the Jordan so, Joshua’s job was to cover the lands west of the river. The aim was to make peace treaties with the local tribes so these new immigrants could settle there; whoever didn’t want to make peace, he torched. He didn't kill them, there was no mass murders - they were "driven out". Immigration has always been a problem, you see.

Joshua vanquished 31 kings, among them the King of Jerusalem – text doesn’t say that either Moses or Joshua owned any of these physical places. They didn’t stamp their name on them and Joshua never held any title to them. There’s something to be said for being a spiritual conqueror, capturing the hearts.

In his very old age, new lands were parceled out to the tribes. The trail blazing period was over. The Army of Light prevailed over the Army of Darkness.

"“he hands Jerusalem to the tribe of Benjamin”

Their mission was to teach their faith in that area. All religion seeks new believers, and all its members are enjoined to practice good stewardship of the region where they live – they live to serve God and humanity, to care for the poor and sick etc. In my religion, it's the same " you go here, and you go there - when we pioneer, we're dispatched to where we're most needed.


Maybe you’re getting Moses’s #1 man after Him confused with the Book of Joshua, which covers the history from the conquest of Canaan to the Babylonian exile. That book wasn’t completed until after the fall of Jerusalem in 586 B.C.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: The verse you quoted in the Quran is about Mary, not Jesus.

“And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten."

Has it not occurred to you that first time labour can last several days? Imagine passing a kidney stone for that long. Bethlehem has always had palm trees. Yeah, well you think about how well you can walk right in the middle of a screaming contraction, buster! Here's the following verse:

“But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.”

No woman grieves when in labour; she WILL get very anxious to find a place to have her baby in time. Most of us say "drive faster!" When the water breaks, birth is immanent….. The next 2 verses:

“And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates.”

The last thing a woman in labour needs is a date – an hour, yes

“So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to [any] man.' "

A woman in labour CAN’T eat. If she's dumb enough to try, she’ll puke it all up. If she talks to a man right in the middle of a contraction, what she says won't be very nice, trust me.

Maybe you’re getting the idea there’s a deeper meaning involved here. Often, you’re no different than the Christians who take everything literally.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Ghost, is it normally your habit to cut people off in the middle of a sentence? Surah 4 is titled “Women”

Verse 156: “And [We cursed them] for their disbelief and their saying against Mary a great slander,
Verse 157: “And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Verse 158: “Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

Everybody knows you can’t kill a Messiah – Their Name and Holy Spirit will last forever. You can’t in any way get the best of Them; since they’re beyond your comprehension, you can't stop their power from quickening humanity. They raise up a new civilization and their followers can be heard for thousands of years, praising Their Name because "HE's risen, risen indeed", as they say.

How often the pure in heart are viewed as madmen or evil while the wicked are perceived as normal and good. A Messiah triggers the great reversal. This is His judgment -> The last will be first and the first will be last.

Next time, just post one verse at a time.

(Edited by Zanjan)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: The bottom line is that the Quran disagrees with the Gospels about both the birth and death of Jesus and an excess of words doesn't disguise the fact.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: As for Joshua, he defeated the king of Jerusalem and gave the city to the tribe of Benjamin, one of the constituants of the host of Israel. That's what the text says and dissembling won't alter the fact.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: I don't see how you can get disagreement out of the three Books, unless you just wanna fight. Well, your fists are only punching air, my friend. That's what happens at the bottom of the heap.

God was there, we weren't; so, we rely on what He conveys to us. Only God can bestow understanding.

What the print says and what you think it means reveals the stuff you're made of. Unlike the words of worldly men, Holy Scripture is revelatory - that's it's main purpose.

What are ancient battles to you anyway? You don't think we have enough of our own?
(Edited by Zanjan)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Two contradictory Gospel stories about the birth of Jesus and one contradictory Quranic story. It suggests to me that none are history.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: It suggests to me that you're conflicted but don't want to face the embarrassment of failure to comprehend. Not to worry, that horse has left the barn - we already know.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: So how do you explain three different stories about the birth of Jesus? Which one do you think is correct, if any? Or do you just prefer make-believe so that the brain cells don't have to be taxed?
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hornchurchmale
hornchurchmale: nearly all history is written by the winner! rewritten where it does not please etc .bearing in mind actual number of people who could even read ..let alone have any education ( except funnily enough religious zealots) and you have a recipe for any facts to be changed .mad e up.altered etc to suit whatever group or zealot was doing the writing.
a good education would always seek to have you aware both sides of a coin. Those that simply accept everything being taught are either naive at best or have been touch at such. an early age they cannot set aside that teaching . A famous philosopher said to effect "given me the child and I will give you the man".
a very true statement. sadly religion seems to be responsible for more deaths in world than most wars and second only to disease!
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southern farm boy
southern farm boy: the religion of death
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The giant midget
The giant midget: I does matter what religion
It's all smoke and mirrors let's not forget money

Blow the smoke way , break those mirrors into powder , remove the cash and the world at pease
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Ghost, the story about Jesus being born in a stable describes His entrance into this earthly world. Why isn't that good enough for you? What could you possibly see wrong with it?

The Quran's story, (by the date palm) isn't about His birth, it's about Mary while she was still pregnant. I have no idea what other story you're referring to.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Really, Zanjan? Have you never read the gospels of Luke and Matthew? Good old Matthew has the happy couple living in a house in Bethlehem while that rotter, Luke, has them journeying to the town because of a census. So which is correct? Were they living in Bethlehem or were they travelling to it?
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: As for the Quran, where did Mary give birth if not in the shade of al palm tree?
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Perhaps the Protevangelium of James is more to your liking?

In the Protevangelium, we read that Jesus was born not in Bethlehem but somewhere in the “desert” between Bethlehem and Jerusalem. Mary, according to this story, went into labor while riding between the towns. Her husband, Joseph, found a nearby “cave” for her and went out to Bethlehem to find a “Hebrew midwife.” When Joseph returned with her, Jesus was born. “My soul has been magnified this day,” the midwife said, according to James’s account, “because my eyes have seen strange things, because salvation has been brought forth to Israel.”
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Could be where old Muhammad got his version from.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: So, in truth, we have at least FOUR versions of the birth of Jesus.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: So why should anyone think that even one of these stories reflects something that really happened?
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hornchurchmale
hornchurchmale: people like to believe what they are taught when young and impressionable. even if its about fairies .goblins .spirits or history bent to whomever doing teaching. If we look for example at Egyptian rulers. some had historic records destroyed and rewritten to suit selves. so be careful what you are taught and believe! Mohammed often portrayed as a sort of 'saint' but was in real life a bandit etc .
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Just_a_Dude
Just_a_Dude: Thanks people for posting. i am reading and learning from every word.
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