Politics and Religion

Lumpenproletariat: ------- SocialContract.com

There's so much that's wrong, so much that needs to change. What can reasonable people do who are not part of the Red Crusade vs. Blue Crusade soap opera dominating the public discourse and stampeding the mindless masses this way and that? What can a thinking individual do other than be a spectator to the aggressive demagogues and celebrities/pundits performing the power drama and dominating the Trump media?

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concerning the domain name SocialContract.com please go to Topic: Philosophy
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Post here anything to argue about, as long as it's serious and concerned with trying to find the truth -- inclusive toward ALL OPINIONS, all thinking and communicating, all schools of thought, non-exclusivist, non-elitist, open to all.


In addition to politics and religion, this is to include philosophy and science and metaphysics and psychology and human nature and economics and history, or any serious subject matter where truth-seekers disagree on what the truth is.

This includes "agreeing to disagree" sometimes, but also promoting debate or searching to resolve disagreements rather than having a taboo on "touchy" issues put off limits for fear of offending someone.

That there are "trolls" who pose a danger and must be excluded is totally rejected here. There is no threat from so-called "trolls" claiming to have truth which others don't know. What's needed is a dialogue open to everyone, with no one excluded. Those who want to exclude someone are the problem today.

Hopefully this website, Wireclub, remains open enough so that anyone can join easily and contribute, without obstacles in the procedure or increased impediments to simple truth-seekers wanting a straightforward platform to express their sentiment.


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1st argument, for starters:

NEOLIBERALISM is the closest there is today to a political philosophy that makes sense or has good answers for today's issues. Sane alternative to the Nutcase Left- and Right-wing fanatics who dominate the Demo and Repub parties in the U.S.

The Crusaders of the Left and Right -- Blues and Reds -- are about equally wrong and are jointly destroying society. We owe our progress and high living standard to science, not to the Left and Right (Blue & Red) pundits who preach at us or wield authority in the power structure.

Simply, "Neoliberalism" means: free trade, free market, pro-immigration, austerity budget philosophy, and carbon tax. Or, long-term good vs. Populist short-term instant gratification demanded by Left- and Right-wing fanatics who dominate not only in the U.S. but most other countries.

One way to identify "Neoliberalism" is that it's Libertarianism but without the Absolutist ideology of No Government or No Taxes whatever. It is a practical effort to realize the "Live and Let Live" philosophy of 19th-century liberalism, with individualism and free choice at the center, but also the recognition of Utilitarianism as the practical guide to decision-making where tough choices have to be made because there are conflicting interests in society which must be resolved either peacefully or or by violence.

Lumpenproletariat:

Here are some good sites/urls to check out (where the link is not a click-on automatic -- e.g., the first 2 at the top -- just copy and paste the url / web address into your address box):

⬤ iidb.org

-- Internet Infidels Discussion Board (previously TalkFreethought dot org)

This is a good-quality message board allowing all topics of interest, mostly philosophical or controversial. But caution: there is some censorship by those in charge -- too much censorship. But still a good place to do politics and religion and philosophy etc. This site is easy to join and get going, with minimum screening. Easy to open a topic for discussion.
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⬤ SortitionFoundation.org

Sortition is a decision-making process which would put ordinary citizens into a role of deciding some of the public issues. These citizens would operate similar to juries, where the issues are presented to them just as a jury has legal cases presented to it to be decided on. All citizens wanting to participate would serve on these juries (or citizens' assemblies).

There are several "Sortition" websites, in addition to Sortitionfoundation.org .
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⬤ Topic: Politics

-- MINIMUM WAGE LAW debate.
Does MW law do more harm than good?
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⬤ http://labortheoryofvalue.blogspot.com/

-- Does the LABOR THEORY OF VALUE make any sense?

It's really a travesty that today authorities like Karl Marx, Adam Smith, and David Ricardo are accepted in Economics as the experts on "value" theory, when any thinking person can recognize that "value" in the economy is based on supply-and-demand in the marketplace. This was all laid out centuries ago by Nicholas Barbon in "A Discourse of Trade" (1690). Marx and Smith and Ricardo showed their ignorance and shallowness by disregarding this clear statement of the principle, and today's economists are betraying a basic dishonesty about labor in today's economy. They are pandering to the labor movement which lies to us about the role of labor in the economy. Why doesn't anyone quote from Barbon, 200-300 years earlier, who laid it out simply and honestly?
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⬤ Chatroom: Neoliberalism Chat Room

There needs to be a 24-hour Neoliberal Chat Room where this topic can be discussed honestly by anyone having an opinion or question about Neoliberalism. All those who pretend to tell us what's wrong with Neoliberalism are being dishonest about the meaning of "Neoliberalism."

I need a volunteer to help keep this chat room open longer hours.

The main tenets of Neoliberalism are free trade, free-market economics, pro-immigration, austerity budget policy, and carbon tax. It does not mean tax cuts for the rich. It means some sacrifice in the short term.

Neoliberalism = the long-term good rather than instant gratification.
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⬤ Topic: Politics -- The Revolution (forum)
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⬤ Chatroom: Historical Jesus Chat Room

I'd like to keep this Chat Room open more, but need someone to help. It's open to all beliefs, opinions, etc. But it's best to stick to the topic. No one is ever ejected.
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⬤ Chatroom: Economics Chat Room

There needs to be a 24-hour Economics Chat Room open to anyone with something to say on this topic. If anyone is interested, I need help to be able to have this room open more.
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⬤ YouTube -- Here Comes Obamacare pep song
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⬤ YouTube -- The very best-ever Commencement Address to graduating seniors. Short and to the point.
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⬤ YouTube -- Sri Quackananda, the only true Real McCoy Guru speaks the Ultimate Absolute Truth. Listen to Him and be blessed as you've never been blessed before.
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⬤ Topic: Entertainment -- SCIENCE FICTION MOVIES listed and ranked. Contribute your opinions or ratings of science fiction movies (1950s to the present).
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⬤ Topic: Off Topic -- The Historical Jesus.

What can we know for sure about the historical Jesus, or the person 2000 years ago who is described in the 1st-century Gospel accounts? Can we figure out, from the historical sources, what distinguishes him in history? i.e., how he differs from other popular prophets or preachers or heroes who stand out in history? Can we determine this aside from religious dogma or tradition, by reliance on the historical facts alone?
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⬤ Topic: Politics --- Neoliberalism Forum

What's wrong with "Neoliberalism" as an alternative to Left- and Right-Wing ideologues? Can anyone explain why "Neoliberal" is condemned by almost everyone?
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(many more sites still to be added to this list)

lori100: hey lump! science creates a high standard of living? not always, there are rich kids dying of addiction , some lose their homes...... a stable healthy family that values education , morals creates a high income and standard of living, but dont tell dems that...

Lumpenproletariat:

lori100:

hey lump! science creates a high standard of living? not always, there are rich kids dying of addiction, some lose their homes......
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That's all true. But the higher living standard we enjoy is due to science and not to the political power structure, especially not the Reds or Blues, who all have a net negative impact on our quality of life.

It's also not due to the social sciences or the education establishment (except the part teaching natural sciences), or to the religionists, clerics, theologians, etc., nor to the philosophers. In short, not to the various established pundits we worship as authority figures. Also not to the speech-makers, including the graduation ceremony babbling speech-maker gurus pretending to impart their wisdom to the graduates.

But the scientists, who deserve the credit, are not perfect. We need to promote science, especially more science education and communication between the science experts and the general public.
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lori100:

. . . a stable healthy family that values education, . . .
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Yes, but "stable" and "healthy" are subjective. And of course "education" is at the top of priorities, but this also has become subjective in some ways. So we need more basic science learning, mainly the hard sciences, and basic language and reading to communicate better.

This includes more debating, so those trying to persuade are forced to rely more on evidence and facts, unlike Republicans and Democrats who rely on propaganda and speeches and monologues and preaching and sloganism. So we need to be more critical about the "education" that's needed and not just toss around the "education" label, and especially not give a blank check to the education establishment.

There needs to be more TESTING of all those claiming to have knowledge or expertise in the sciences or teaching of science.
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lori100:

. . . healthy family that values education, morals creates a high income and standard of living, but don't tell dems that...
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You're mostly right, but Republicans are just as clueless as the Dems. It's a mistake to think anything will be fixed by replacing Dems with Repubs. The Trump phenomenon is a disaster for America.

The Free Trade and free-market ideas of Ronald Reagan had merit. But Trump's China-bashing and anti-immigrant Populism has been a disaster and shameful setback for the Republican Party and the country.

lori100: nonsense, trump is great and was against illegals as biden is now...............all recent presidents restrict people imigrating to the u.s. based on security...........see dem hellhole cities letting dems loot and destroy businesses

Lumpenproletariat:

lori100:

nonsense, trump is great and was against illegals as biden is now.
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But we should legalize those "illegals" who are working, because we need them to do jobs which are going vacant and which we need to have done. What's important is to get needed work done.

Trump did much damage to the economy with his trade war with China, hurting U.S. consumers who had to pay higher prices, and U.S. producers dependent on trade.

Punishing those who work and produce is never good for any country. The Soviet Union and Castro's Cuba tried to suppress the Black Market in those countries, which severely harmed the economy. We need more trade, and more freedom for companies to hire all the labor they need, including immigrant labor and cheap labor.

Trump set the Repubs and the country back with his anti-business anti-market policies.
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lori100:

...all recent presidents restrict people immigrating to the u.s. based on security...
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Some restrictions are OK, but not on immigrant workers who are needed. Those restrictions should be ended and employers given freedom to hire the labor they need = more work gets done = more production and supply = lower prices and higher living standard for all consumers.
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lori100:

....see dem hellhole cities letting dems loot and destroy businesses
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This is why we need an alternative to the current Reds and Blues who are anti-business and anti-trade rather than the pro-trade and pro-business and pro-competition policies of Reagan.

Trump adopted only the one bad Reagan policy of tax cuts for the rich.

lori100: in chicago blacks and hispanics are protesting illegals in their areas, they are not vetted, lots of criminals among illegals

lori100:

lori100:

Lumpenproletariat:

There's no "Final Solution" to the immigration problem.

However, many of the immigrants could be employed and are needed to fill vacant jobs. So the number of immigrant worker visas should be greatly increased, and at least those ones hired won't themselves be any problem for the country because they will pay their own way.

But also many of the immigrants should just be allowed to go to relatives they already have in the U.S. who will accept them.

But there's nothing anyone can do to make the immigrants disappear. Anymore than native Americans 500 years ago could make the European "invaders" disappear, or than Romans could make the Goths disappear.

The developed countries could get together to create a broad program for refugees and asylum-seekers, to have all the countries take in a share of the migrants. It's not something any one country alone can fix.

Many of these migrants can do construction work, which we need, because of the housing shortage. So the immigrant worker restrictions need to be loosened in order to allow many more immigrant workers.

Just wanting to get rid of them because "they don't belong here" is no solution to anything.

lori100: obama chef Campbell's death has parallels with that of Walter Scheib, an executive chef at the White House for 11 years under Bill Clinton and George W. Bush. Scheib drowned in June 2015

Lumpenproletariat:

2024 Election

Prediction: Trump will win, but Democrats will win Congress by good margins (both houses).

Trump will be stopped by Congress. But Congress won't be able to pass anything, because Trump will veto it. Tumultuous 4 years in store. Trump will be impeached again, but Republicans in Senate won't convict.

(Later this year I'll revise this when it's all refuted by whatever really happens. But I'll try to leave the above unedited -- (this edit is 3/27)).