The is NO free will. we are prods of out envio.

MattyD89
MattyD89: think, when you were a baby you had NO controll over anyhting really. you were taken where u were taking, youate what you were fed, and you heard what you were told.

When your a baby your mind and brain is developing and the situations and the enviorment that you had been FORCED into helped produce your brian.

as you are put into more situations your brain develops more

and when it comes to what you call decision making that decision is only made from your past experiances your enviorment put you in.


you might think - i dont know if i want to dump this girl or not - and you CHOOSE to dump her or stay with her right?

Well not exactly.


to come to a conclusion on whether or not to dump the girl comes form past experiances. you feel a certian way because of how you were brought up.

like you said u like strong smart women, thats because you enviorment has allwoed your brian to like those types of women.

if you ad never even met or ehard of the type of woman u like right now, you wouldnt even know of them, and you wouldnt be saying u like strong woman which proves my point exaclt.y


we only know what we know, and do what we do because our envoirment allows us.


if your born in a shanty town in mexico you think you have to choicse to become a millionare and do whateve ru want in life? maybe .0001% will be lucky enough to fal into an enviroemnt in that town that will allow growth and resrouces to become a millionare, but chances r small.


everyone is different because everyone experiances life differently. the enviroment plays differently on everyone.



the fact is, if you were born again and experianced the exact same things at the exact same time as you have now youd be he exact same.

if your mom and dad had u in a completely different country, and brought you up teahcing you differnt ideals and morals youd be completly different.

how do you not get this?


even your choices are produces by your enviorment.


you may think you are choosing, and you are, but your enviorment creatd that choice and there is no argument about it.

you can only think about what youve seen, heard, and felt. you cannot controll what you see feel or hear. can you go touch the moon? if you cant afford a plane ticket can you go see china? if yo cant afford internet or school can you choose to learn new things? and even when you can do you choose whats taught and how its taught? do you choose exaclty what you want to see when you go to china and how u want to see it? i know there have been times ive been on a trip, had an itinerary and due to unseen curcumstances things change, and sometimes only in little ways but still changes the experiance drastically. as well, when you are experiancing things for the first time your choices in how to expaice them are due to how you expeiced things in your past up to that moment.
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BeautifulRejection
BeautifulRejection: So what your saying is we don't have the power to make choices?
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MattyD89
MattyD89: im not saying were all these mind controlled zombies. we do have a thought process which does make deicisons for us.

you dont get that, that mind process was only created because of your enviorment. every thought within your head is a direct cause of your enviorment. you cannot think of something you have never touched, smelled, tasted, seen, head or heard of before. you can take different ideas and make different and innovative ideas. and when you make a decision, that thought to make the deicison was made from your enviorment.



what else would it be from????????????
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BeautifulRejection
BeautifulRejection: *MattyD89* "every thought within your head is a direct cause of your environment. you cannot think of something you have never touched, smelled, tasted, seen, or heard of before. you can take different ideas and make different and innovative ideas."

I can give you that much..

But just because we are products of the environment doesn't mean we have to base our choices off off it. We have the ability to do as we choose. After all you can't tell the environment was the reason you wrote this forum.
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Icy_Uranus
Icy_Uranus: *MattyD89* "every thought within your head is a direct cause of your environment. you cannot think of something you have never touched, smelled, tasted, seen, or heard of before. you can take different ideas and make different and innovative ideas."

Umm.... what about inventors?

Leonardo Da Vinci for example, had designs for a ornithopter flying machine, something he could never have touched, smelled, tasted, seen, or heard of before.
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MattyD89
MattyD89: like i said, you can take a bunch of different ideas and come up with something innovative like you said.

i can easily sit down and come up with an idea that no one else on this planet has made, but still my idea to draw that came from my enviroment.




and actually yes my enviroment did make me write this forum topic.

my enviorment has given me information and drawn me twords this website awhile ago, my cureosity drivin by my enviroment makes me post topics and see other peoples repsonces and opinions are on the topics i am most interested in and have strong feelgins twords.

but these feelings, these ideas i have, are all driven and derrived from my enviorment 100%evey thgouh within every brain is because of the enviroment. the enviroment makes u wo u are, and makes u ake the decision you make due to the fact it makes up who u are.


you may think you are choosing, but your enviorment has already made the choice for you
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MattyD89
MattyD89: and the same goes for you. if it wasnt for ur enviorment enabling you to see my forum post, you would never post somthig o nthisofrim?
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Icy_Uranus
Icy_Uranus: Actually I CHOSE to respond to this forum. Sure you posted this topic giving me something to respond to, but I had the option of responding or not.

You see a tree in a field, in your environment. Do you chop down the tree because its there? Or do you leave it be and let it grow? You have a choice. Freedom to think. Its your own free will that decides whether to chop down the tree or not.
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MattyD89
MattyD89: soryr bro but its not. if the enviroment gives you a reason to chop down that tree (its cold, and raning and you need a shelter) then you will have to cut that tree down.

if there is no need to, then you will not.

nature decides this for you without you haveing any idea.


and maybe, just maybe you cut it down for the fun of cutting it down due to past experiances making you like to wtach things break or something of that nature.


yes, in your thought process YOU do choose, but you enviorment made you come to the conclusion
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MattyD89
MattyD89: you did not choose to repsond to this. something in your thought process was great enough to make you respond. yes you choose to, but that choice was your past enivomrnt leading you to make the decision on whether or not its worth ur time, erroft, and energy to respond.
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Icy_Uranus
Icy_Uranus: Thank you for making my point.

Through your own freedom of thinking you have thought of some options as to why you may or may not chop the tree down. You weighed those options up and through your own free will came to a decision. You have shown you are not automatically compelled to follow either path without free will. You have the free will to make a decision.
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MattyD89
MattyD89: inventors use the enviorment to invent thigns. you cannot invent something that dcan not be put together without the enviorment.

and the enviomrnet made the inventor who he is and created his thoughts so if it wasnt for where he was born, he would not be an inventor.

you think if bill gates was born in some ghetto in new york hed be who he is now? even if he was born in any other famiy hed be completly diff and would have most likely never come up with windows
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MattyD89
MattyD89: that "free will" inside yourself is from your enviorment though. your enviomrent created your thoughts to make a choice.
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MattyD89
MattyD89: your choices are made up becaus eof your enviorment, not ebcause of this thing ucall "free will". there is no such thing.
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Icy_Uranus
Icy_Uranus: If Bill Gates was born in any other family he wouldn't be Bill Gates would he? He would be John Smith or whatever. So of course Bill Gates wouldn't have invented windows because he would never have existed.
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MattyD89
MattyD89: hahahahaha okay say bill gates was born by his birth parents now, but put up for adoption at birth, and adported by a diff family. he would not have done anything close to what hes done now. he could be a gas station employee
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MattyD89
MattyD89: and that goes for all
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BeautifulRejection
BeautifulRejection: Your right I didn't choose to do shit... My environment made me.
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MattyD89
MattyD89: you sitll are not following what i am saying in any way. im not syanig your enviorment MAKES YOU AND CONTROLLS YOU, but it does MAKE UP YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS SO ANY CHOICE YOU MAKE IS DIRECTLY INFLUENCED BY YOU ENVIORMENT IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE.
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MattyD89
MattyD89: you do make choices, but those choices are amde because of your enviorment 100%.


if you guys think there is such thing as free will, please explain it to me
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MattyD89
MattyD89: you do not choosewhat your enviorment shows you or how you intrepret it
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Icy_Uranus
Icy_Uranus: Do you choose to watch TV or does your environment choose for you?
Do you choose what food you eat for dinner or does your environment choose for you?
Do you choose to go swimming at the beach or does your environment choose for you?
Do you choose to go out and hang with your friends or does your environment choose for you?
Do you choose what movie you would like to watch at the cinemas or does your environment choose for you?
Do you choose what book to read or does your environment choose for you?
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MattyD89
MattyD89: Do you choose to watch TV or does your environment choose for you?
Do you choose what food you eat for dinner or does your environment choose for you?
Do you choose to go swimming at the beach or does your environment choose for you?
Do you choose to go out and hang with your friends or does your environment choose for you?
Do you choose what movie you would like to watch at the cinemas or does your environment choose for you?
Do you choose what book to read or does your environment choose for you?



depends whats on tv, and how much u like tv due to you enviormental influences in the past.

dpends what food is available, and depends what type of food u like depending on how ur enviorment has influenced u in the past.

depends if there is a beach, depends o nthe weather, and deepends on your enviromental influences i nthe past as well


depends on if ur friends r around, depends on if u have any friends, depends on where u r n ur enviroment to have any friends a t all

the movie u go to depend so nwhat ur enviorment has influended u to like, same with the theature choice, or a book as well.


yes ur enviomrent influencs every deciison u make


u say i wanna see this movie and go to this theature because u like a certian type of movie u like do to ur past enviormental experiances and the theature u like for the same reason
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MattyD89
MattyD89: in a sense you choose. but your enviorment ultimatly makes the choice.

i dont see how u dont udnerstand, or why u so against the idea.


how else would ur brian work? hahaha

whats free will guy? exlin it with examples that make sense
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Icy_Uranus
Icy_Uranus: Thank again for proving my point.

You have made your decisions due to free will. You've explored your options and made decisions. Sure there is some influence by the environment, like whats on TV, whats in the fridge, hows the weather etc, but your environment didn't make your decision for you those examples (except in the case of swimming, poor example, but you can still choose to go swimming in the rain and in good weather its your choice). You used your free will to come to a decision. You were not forced to do any of those by your environment, so to decide to do any of these is free will.
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Icy_Uranus
Icy_Uranus: I actually agree we are products of our environment. But I think this relates to when we are growing up and are more easily influenced. As adults we possess the skills to reason and make decisions. And I agree that the thought process as adults are determined by the earlier influence. But I don't agree that as adults we don't have free will to make decisions. I just find this thinking to be an excuse and it denies responsibility for peoples actions.
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