Certainty And Uncertainty (Page 2) CandyRivers: I think you can wampum, what happens when you use dichotic listening experiments in patients with a severed callosum? mind you, how could we record the results? I will have to look it up one day, when I have time.  AFoolLostinParadise: lol hey, that's not fair Teece, us guys cant do that multi- ..., what was that called again  StuckInTheSixties: Okay, chew on this example: Someone is accused of some misdeed. One can consider them certainly guilty, and one can also consider them certainly innocent. And of course, one can be uncertain of guilt or innocence. Can you be simultaneously certain and uncertain they are guilty? Can you be simultaneously certain and uncertain they are innocent? One can, of course, change one's mind. Repeatedly. Rapidly. Or not. Whatever. But can you SIMULTANEOUSLY be certain, yet uncertain, in this circumstance? Teece: Lols Sits, where do you think this stuff up from............. My answer - no, not simultaneously. If you thought both thoughts at the same time, then you could never be certain of either..... StuckInTheSixties: Teece, this topic lies at the heart of a mild ... maybe not so mild ... philosophical obsession I have. I don't want to dwell on what that obsession is, or even mention it, for the moment. I don't want to dilute or divert this specific Forum topic by doing that. I'm focusing on presenting this topic, this question, and seeing what sort of responses come from it as a possible source of illumination for another related topic, which I obsess over sometimes. This topic is the means to a possible forthcoming end. Wampum6: SITS - In your most recent questions, and not considering any brain abnormalities, I say "no" - not simultaneously. AFoolLostinParadise: ok, i agree, not simultaneously note - simultaneous events are relative from different frames of reference (theory of relativity). Can we assume that one's thoughts of rapidly alternating opinions are within that single frame of reference within the mind, or do they occupy separate frames, albeit miniscule distance apart. AFoolLostinParadise: Ahaaa - tonight i am going to change my mind and say, yes, it is possible to be both certain and uncertain at the same time - ahemmm, sort of. Now, i profess to knowing nothing about how the brain functions, which may explain some of my postings. So, read at your own amusement. I obtained the info below by doing very little research, lol, but it does propose the theory that information/memories are stored in 'rooms'. Im going to latch onto that thought. http://www.brainchannels.com/Memory/encoding/encoding.html In order to encode incoming information, or an event, into long-term memory, the best way to do this is to link, associate or connect the incoming information with something already in your memory in order to make it meaningful. You can retrieve the memory, because you have an actual means to recall it, due to associating, linking or connecting the incoming information with something already in your memory. There are visualization or guided imagery techniques you can also use to recall memories. You can visualize your mind as having many rooms, full of many objects related to your memories, of which you can add a new memory by placing it in its most appropriate room and location. This type of visualization and elaborative encoding known as Mnemonics was first used by Simonides, a Greek philosopher, back in 477 B.C., for his oratory speeches. Mnemonics has been used effectively throughout history and has played a major role, exerting a large influence on artistic and religious life, especially during the Middle Ages. So, there u have it. For those of us who claim to have experienced 'simultaneously' opposing thoughts, they may exist, simultaneously, in separate rooms. Now, admittedly, communicating those thoughts, which may be what SITS is referring to when he says only one thought can be expressed at a time, appears to be limited to a single expression at a time . But that's different from existing in one's mind simultaneously (subconscience??). Oh boy, not very coherent, it's getting late and im not rewriting it. Figure it out. It just occurred to me writing this, so, obviously havent put much thought into it, that speculatively speaking, these rooms might be quantum - ie, quantum dimensional, operating kind of like those phantom quantum computers they are trying so hard to create. Probably not. Gotta get me some sleep. Girls (Candy/Teece?) wish me sweet naughty dreams StuckInTheSixties: (laughs) My penchant for science is having revenge upon me. This is the Philosophy Forum, dammit! So ... in a philosophical sense, can one be certain and uncertain simultaneously? I say no. AFoolLostinParadise: Ahhh - can dreams be both sweet and naughty at the same time. Yeahhhhh (blushing). Now, why is that any different from certain and uncertain. Both sets are descriptive of one's thoughts. And no 'sweet' is not an adverb of 'naughty' (adverb??). Almost have an answer to this ..., almost ..., alm ..., Candy, get out of my head.  nekromancer07: my answer is no. It depends on time. Moment to moment certainty can change, but not the two at once. StuckInTheSixties: There was an ulterior motive for my starting of this thread. In a way, it was research for this blog: http://www.wireclub.com/Blogs/StuckInTheSixties/236147 KrAsH: Ok talking about dreams.. What if your subconscious mind provides a dream where you are certain of something and then your conscious mind at the same time becomes uncertain of the dream and wakes you up? Some train of thoughts on dreams are you only wake up from a dream if your conscious mind catches a glimpse of it (why you can have a nightmare for awhile before waking yourself up from it) And some views on lucid dreams are when your conscious mind views the subconscious minds dream but instead of waking you up,views it in unison for awhile. ^^^ 2 thoughts at once (ever had a dream where you try to wake up,but keep dreaming for a little longer) Anne aka Mags: OK I know this is an old discussion, but here's my two cents worth... I'm on Live Chat and someone wants a pm. At that moment I am certain it's someone wanting cyber, but check anyway in case they don't (hope they don't?) Is that hope incorporated into uncertainty and therefore a simultaneous state of certainty and uncertainty? StuckInTheSixties: (laughs) No. You're certain of one thing - some is sending you a private message; and you're uncertain of another - what the intent of the message is. 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