Morality as an aesthetic operant
junyabee: Morality as the operant of our aesthetics
I think that the dystopian, atmospheric-biospheric-psycho/sociopathological events we are witnessing in their anecdotally and probabilistically marginality are the pan-synergy of the biosphere's aesthetics resonating to their mechanical profundity in response to the dominant anthropocentric operations in play. If so, the eventual 'serendipities' and synchronicities of consequences will give the acolytes of 'biblical retributions' much to drop to their knees. I suppose the reductionist-objectivist who'd accept only mechanistic solutions will have the 'gnashing of teeth' in the determination of denial that supports their aesthetic of morality.
swamp99: Kant said freedom is the one essential prerequisite for morality. He backed it up with a brilliant philosophical treatise. But I guess we'd all need to become philosophers?
junyabee: Taking a spin off Sartre: Freedom places the (terrible) responsibility on the individual for their ethical and moral accountability for their acts.
swamp99: Sartre was writing through the WWI and WW2 periods when human reason was not capable of understanding the time. So freedom became absurd. I think it still is. But Kant was writing at the time of the Enlightenment when it was still thought that we could create the society we wanted to live in and undertook. Kant proved that pure reasoning could be attained, which is the knowledge of all natural things through reason. There were lessor forms of reasoning too. But freedom for Kant was essential to any moral state. Freedom of the will. In other words without freedom morality can not exist. But to really experience the power of this one needs to develop pure reasoning skills. To learn Kant's teaching. Because every act then becomes a 'categorical imperative' and is significant in the world. But just as profound as it is Nietzsche was opposed to all forms of morality. For him morality was the ruin of all men.
junyabee: We differ on Satre's writings, but that's an irrelevancy of mootness.
I have experienced events whose advent seems to have been an imposition of the anticipated or empirically expected narrative. This advent operates on its own arbitrary 'reason' and basis that has little to do with the mundane, qualitative merits of the subjects involved. To that extent, it would imply that we exist in some form of existential subservience within our carnal dimension, but would seem to have a greater latitude of options in non-carnally bound cognitive interactions.
Material, objective 'freedom' IS I'm ever more certain a ruse-mirage-ideational fallacy. there is only potential and the options of that potential, which some would want to construe as some form of (relative) freedom.
swamp99: so what is knowledge is it anything?
...that has little to do with the mundane, qualitative merits of the subjects involved : it seems to me you propose some kind of communion of the soul. some kind of higher spirit.
junyabee: It does seem to be the implication of that dimension being our actual field of sublime operations, with this dimension just being a domain for extraction of energy to access that dimension
swamp99: my only criticism is there is not enough 'meaning' in this extraction energy philosophy. and i understand this position feeds the ego and there is a tendency to get tied in knots because of it. but a western philosopher would simply state what is life without meaning? in saying that i legitimately question are we deluded?
junyabee: Much like our gestation in the womb we go through various stages of 'development' and during that development we are in an ever-evolving delusion. There is, IMNHO, no definitive 'empirical' data except possibility and potential. How we respond to either or both of those is the predicate for our present and future. Materialist-Objectivist-Reductionist are left in a cognitive anomie with this supposition, but what else is there?
swamp99: It seems that essentially the same goal is strived for by western philosophy and eastern, i understand knowledge as Brahma and western philosophy is concerned with knowledge principally. i'm not sure where the ultimate difference is situated? but from a western perspective through Kant we learn that objective thinking needs deep structure. or it does turn myopic. that is evidence of maya. but still a lot of life is focused on principles and people live and die by these. is this a kink in the evolution of the person or literally worth dying for?
junyabee: You summarized it, "Kant we learn that objective thinking needs deep structure. or it does turn myopic.."
'Missing the forest for the trees' or 'Concerned with the # of angels on a pin head'
junyabee: I could see the omission of of any deistic, moralizing consequences. What about metaphysical aspects
swamp99: i would say my strongest motivator is fear. a fear of reduction. it comes with delusion but that can be expelled. but seek to understand life through aesthetics.
junyabee: Deconstruct not by elective whim, but the necessity of an imperative calling for a change for the sake of whatever is the driver of your conscience. that's how it happened for me. Hearing your 'Self' from the din of noise of the public and popular narratives..
swamp99: Madness is the absence of a work of art - Foucault. The debate is if we create ourselves throughout our lifetimes or if there is a creator?
junyabee: The former.. As an organic algorithm of potential options in a revelatory consequence of our choices..
Madness as nihilist art of of pointless expression of angst, of no reason except an unrestrained compulsion..
swamp99: i think perhaps knowing the 'law' can be aesthetic. coming to grief with it is horrible but to know it and to find peace inside seems to coincide with knowing the law of karma as well. in a sense the same field. i think its a strong key to self-realisation. but that process can be ascribed to an avatar all the same; i think its the pain of birth that curses us.
(Edited by swamp99)
junyabee: We ARE the blank slate, tabula rasa, on which is imposed the triggering suggestions of environment.. Karma-OUR KARMA-comes (IMNHO) after we make ourselves accountable by our proactive deconstruction of the environmental constructs suggested and indoctrinated for us to be-existentially presumptive.
swamp99: and this deconstruction happens via the aid of the 'signal' sort of like climbing a cliff face that is breaking off beneath you.