Terrorist. (Page 3)

flashie: i think i upset him too. its difficult doin the paradigm shift

FogofWar: Stronger argument? So Canada was 2/3 larger in 1812? So Canada doesn't hold the world's second largest oil supply? Iraqi people don't view the US as friends? ISAF forces aren't protecting people in Afghanistan?

I refer to you using drugs because you have the mentality of a braindead stoner.

Flashie, you didn't irritate me, I'm just stating that your claims are lies about the government...the very government that you claim lies so much.

flashie: like i said before bro, were not going to agree we dont belive each other and were probly both wrong

Outbackjack: Mudding the waters again Fog of oil and deliberately misquoting what I have said.

Lies,smoke and mirrors is all you have as an argument.

Typical corporate stooge who masquerades as a soldier.

FogofWar: Mudding what? You clearly stated that Britain lost the war of 1812, and your "proof" of the loss was in the fact that they lost over 2/3 of North America. I suggest you go back to junior high before you discuss world politics any further.

davidk14: Now gentlemen, we're all on the same side here. Or are we?

chronology: You are right Mr David. If this keeps up we will end up on the same level as the Dickheads on the Religious Forum. What a set of w"nkers they are.

FogofWar: I'm not here to pick sides; I am hear to provide truth about the wars that 99% of people in our countries' know nothing about. I don't care if you want to oppose these wars; but don't go around spreading lies about them, based off of information from some third party website written by people that have never been there.

flashie: ^but being in the military as much as youre privvy to certain news its very compartmentalised still isnt it? i mean they dont give servicemen/women the big picture always do they?

flashie: unless im mistaken 98 percent of ppl detained under terrorist act in uk have been released without charge. thats uk, i dont know stats on g bay.

so its reasonable to say alot of innocents have been lied about and imprisoned and some tortured?

just asking

Outbackjack: Fog,even blind freddy can see how wrong things are.

franklin1950: opinion is a plentyful commodity .
disernment .... not so much.
comments usually just that.

seano92: Terrorism ask yourself what is terrorism? we call hamas, IRA, ETA, farc all these terrorists but these all have or had the support of their people some are even elected and or die for what they belive they practice what they preach. Tell me how many people in history who freed their countries have been called terrorists or tratiors and so and so on but yet there will always be another side saying terrorist. Terrorist or freedom fighter.

Also is it not terrorism what israel are doing in gaza or what the british did Ireland North and South for so long do really think the loyalist there had no help from the brits

flashie: word up

davidk14: Sean,

It’s one thing to fight for what you believe. It’s another to call for the extermination of a race or country. Regarding Hamas:

The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter. Following are highlights.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad”

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).
(The implication is clear: Allah promised that the Jews will be murdered, and the Hamas "aspires to the realization of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take.)

Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood

The Charter states:

The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the wings of Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine. Muslim Brotherhood Movement is a universal organization which constitutes the largest Islamic movement in modern times. It is characterized by its deep understanding, accurate comprehension and its complete embrace of all Islamic concepts of all aspects of life, culture, creed, politics, economics, education, society, justice and judgment, the spreading of Islam, education, art, information, science of the occult and conversion to Islam.

• "We will not rest until we destroy the Zionist entity" stated Hamas leader Fathi Hammad in Gaza

• In a sermon aired on Hamas' Al-Aqsa television, cleric Yunis Al Astal stated, "Today, Rome is the capital of the Catholics, or the Crusader capital, which has declared its hostility to Islam, and has planted the brothers of apes and pigs in Palestine in order to prevent the reawakening of Islam.

chronology: The National Liberation Struggles at least had an 'End Game', i.e. they wanted their Self Determination as Sovereign Nations. The problem with Islamic Terrorism is it is mostly delusional gibberish. Neither Europe nor Washington can make 'head nor tail' of just what Global Islam really wants, it is Alice in Wonder Land stuff.

RUBY: even on here?? oh lord

davidk14: Chrono,
There is a goal for the Islamic Terrorists.....world domination.

flashie: ^dream on.


meanwhile in the real world... africa is steadily in the depopulation eugenics grasp of the bohemian grove crew who really do have designs for world domination.

i think islamic 'terrorists' would just like all the foreign soldiers to f@x% off and fight real wars not corporate greed ones. no?

davidk14: Flashie, You see to many things behind the curtain. The Islamic religious fanatics dont see financial greed or corporate political takeover spy shit like you do. All they see is their twisted view of Islam and if you dont agree with their twisted views, you are the bad guy. There's a 50 million dollar bounty on Bin Laden and in the last nine years, not even a bite. If it were about money, somebody would have cashed in by now.

FogofWar: "^but being in the military as much as youre privvy to certain news its very compartmentalised still isnt it? i mean they dont give servicemen/women the big picture always do they?"

The Canadian Forces Ethos is one based on the policy; not laid out by our government; but rather that of the people of the nation. In other words; our military adheres to a code of what the people of Canada believe; not what they are told to...Canadians believe in honesty; and so, our military is based on a policy of honesty. If there is no need to lie; then there is no need to waste money covering things up. We see far more of the picture than you do.

...and to answer yours and everyone else's questions; yes, in training, they do show us videos for aiding in training (although rather few); and NO, they are NOT biast films. One during basic, was about dealing with the media; and they did not speak of how the media is corrupt and going to try and paint a negative image of you...the military video was one of respect for the media; and what they do. It was not biast at all. Yes, there are members of the media who care only about exploiting stories for ratings; but that does not mean they all are; just like not all soldiers are like the select few you see on the news abusing people. What good can come from a soldier who is lied to? Eventually he will see the truth; as he is there on the frontlines dealing with it personally; and when he does; everything will go sour.

No, they do not give you the "big picture" in terms of mission briefings; but as far as policy in conflicts, and court cases of those being charged; governmental involvement; yes, they sure do...and that is why I am a proud Canadian.

"unless im mistaken 98 percent of ppl detained under terrorist act in uk have been released without charge. thats uk, i dont know stats on g bay."

Neither do I, but I do know the stats on detainees taken by Canadian soldiers. ALL those who are detained by Canadian soldiers are treated for any injuries; and handed over to the appropriate authorities. Since we are a foreign military; there to assist the Afghan government in stabilizing THEIR country; these insurgents are not breaking any laws of Canada; and so, they are not classified as prisoners to us. They are however, breaking the laws of the Afghan government; and as such, are criminals to the nation of Afghanistan. All detainees taken by Canadian soldiers are therefore handed over to the Afghan National Army; to deal with them in accordance to the policy of the government of Afghanistan.

"so its reasonable to say alot of innocents have been lied about and imprisoned and some tortured?

just asking"

99% being released is hardly evidence of torture Flashie. Do remember that the majority of torture cases came from the US; not other nations...and of those; the majority were from Blackwater, a privatized company....like the one's outbackjack always praises.

"Terrorism ask yourself what is terrorism?"

Terrorism:

the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims

(Oxford Dictionary)

a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

(Dictionary.com)


Having support has nothing to do with whether or not they are terrorists. Terrorism is the unofficial use of violence to gain political aims. "Unauthorized" or "unofficial" means that it is violence used against members of society; and not against military or policing units in general. This act makes it 100% illegal; regardless of whether or not the cause is "righteous". Anyone who would blow up a school full of children, ram an airliner into the World Trade Centre; hijack an Airliner, and slit the throats of all Jewish civilians onboard; kidnap and murder Israeli athletes at the Olympic Games; is a coward, and deserving of legal prosecution. Call them freedom fighters all you want; the act of murdering innocent people is NEVER justified!

FogofWar: "Tell me how many people in history who freed their countries have been called terrorists or tratiors and so and so on..."

Terrorists? The IRA, Hamas, PLO, Taliban, al Queda, ALF, ELF, and only a few other select organizations that aim violence on civilians in order to intimidate a governing body into caving into their political aims. Terrorism is a generally new term in warfare. The face of war has changed drastically in the past few hundred years. The philosophy of terrorism can arguably be dated back to the ancient times (BC), but modern terrorism as we know it has only been around for a couple decades. THe first form of modern terrorism may easily have been that of the Jews in the British mandate of Palestine; however, as no real structure existed in their aims; much of which targeted British soldiers; and combatants alike; it again is not exactly as we see it today.

It could also be argued that terrorism dates back to WWI, when Arabs fighting alongside Allied forces engaged in melees with downed pilots of both German and Allied sides. It could also be said that the roots of modern terrorism stem to the Boston Tea Party; although this was more of a non violent protest.

Nevertheless, modern terrorism today is seen as acts of terror performed by structured organizations, that attack civilian targets, not government or military ones...and so, it is quite easy for us to label organizations as terrorist or not:

ANYONE who deliberately attacks civilian targets with the means to gain political aim is a TERRORIST! Call them terrorists; call them freedom fighters; no matter what you call them; can you honestly say that their motives justify the slaughter of innocent women and children?

"Also is it not terrorism what israel are doing in gaza or what the british did Ireland North and South for so long do really think the loyalist there had no help from the brits"

Israeli forces are engaging Palestinian "terrorists", as in people belonging to an organization that are engaging in combat. Thus, NO, it is not terrorism.

Britain was engaging members of the Irish Republican Army; NOT civilians, so NO, it was not terrorism. The IRA was probably the most 'justified' of any of these organizations, as they were man enough to engage British soldiers who could fight back, not coward in the shadows and prey on those who were helpless...although their acts against politicians, and select other civilians is what labelled them as terrorists.

FogofWar: "i think islamic 'terrorists' would just like all the foreign soldiers to fwx# off and fight real wars not corporate greed ones. no?"

Then why strike first Flashie? Have you forgotten what happened on September 11?


"Flashie, You see to many things behind the curtain. The Islamic religious fanatics dont see financial greed or corporate political takeover spy shit like you do. All they see is their twisted view of Islam and if you dont agree with their twisted views, you are the bad guy"

David's point here is justified by any of those who have seen combat in Afghanistan. Soldiers of every nation in ISAF have witnessed acts of pure hatred from Taliban insurgents. These acts include the murder of their own Islamic citizens of Afghanistan. In their views; this is not a sin; as the people of Afghanistan that support Western intervention are helping to bring about the "downfall" of the righteous Islamic ways; they are not true members of Islam; and so it is not a sin to kill these "infidels". This is the very logic that drives Taliban insurgents to tear the heads off teddy bears; pull out the stuffing; line it with explosives; sew the head back on, give it to a small child on his way to school, and blow up the school full of hundreds of children. They have done this to tens of thousands of schools!

chronology: Mr Fogofwar. The sad fact with many of these Taliban like people is that they live in a 'Heart of Darkness'. One man was describing seeing a video of Pit-bull fighting Dogs being set onto Bears in a Pit for the amusement of the brutish crowd, somewhere on the boarders of Pakistan and Afghanistan. The bear was badly mutilated. One of it's eye balls had been part torn out and the wretched bear was trying to push the eyeball back into it's socket with it's paw. We can only hope the light from the Statue of Liberty will shine on these people and show them a better way to live.

FogofWar: we are doing just that chrono....despite what the very, very few on here have to say; the majority of the world can see better the reality of what is going on.

Although many do not agree with the reasons for being in Iraq, and some even Afghanistan, and while more still don't think we need to concern ourselves with it; there is no arguing to the majority of people in the world that both Afghanistan and Iraq are better places now that we are there. People in Iraq call the US friends; only a select few Sunnis that you see posted on videos on here, stand against the US. They speak of US bombs killing a few children; yet do not mention the thousands that were killed up north by Saddam.

They show ISAF soldiers standing in poppy fields protected them; but do not show the Taliban holding those farmers children at gunpoint; demanding money. Those farmers make less a year than most people here make a day; in yet, those few, like the ones here, seem to think it's as simple as not growing poppies. Those poppies are used for more than just drugs. Opium poppies are also used for medicines in hospitals, such as codine. The reality is that these farmers are giving up their money to Taliban insurgents in order to spare their families death; yet still need to make enough to feed them; and poppy growth is the only way they can. We are not protecting the poppy fields; we are protecting the farmer who has no other choice but to grow them. Our governments are also looking for ways to substitute something else that will wield the value of poppies.

The same is brought up of resources driving us to be there.....yet people only see this from the perspective that our government is corrupt. In order for Afghanistan to be able to protect themselves from the Taliban; they need the funding to arm their army and police forces. Us aiding the Asian Development Bank in building natural gas pipelines; and finding of minerals is a means for the people of Afghanistan to gain the funding for themselves in order to defend themselves. Only because a small few US investors are seen profiting do people assume the worst...but one must understand that people make money on everything. When the swine flu vaccine came out; people were making money off of it; does that make it wrong?

The reality is that much, much progress has been made in Afghanistan. I cannot say entirely for Iraq; as Canada has no involvement there; but we are a major factor in Afghanistan; and our quarterly reports show drastic improvements in both their economy, and their quality of life. The people of Afghanistan are seeing the light; and unlike the select few on here; I WILL NOT let that slip away from them!