New AZ Illegal Immigration Law sabrinalilypup: Ok...the law is in place in Arizona. Let me repeat what my daughter who is a lawyer said about illegal immigrants: Quote, "I feel that illegal immigrants has no place in my country. If I am head of the Immigration right now, I will send all the illegal immigrants back home to their home country. I truly feel illegal immigrants should not be granted amnesty (Republicans granted illegal immigrants amnesty for political reasons) just because they have stayed here in the USA illegally. Why should they? For the same token, as sophisticated as our country is, what are the tracking system put in place to monitor the legality or illegality of a person staying here in the USA? Surely I do not agree entirely to what is going on now in Arizona, it might not be morally right, but if the Federal Government has no tracking system, for illegal immigrants, the Arizona Bill requiring profiling of citizens may just be a good start to weed out illegal immigrants. Therefore, I wonder if in this upcoming Reform, government will put in place how to track down illegal immigrants without infringing on the rights of the natural born and legal immigrants of this country. I compare my country (USA)to my home. If given permission anyone can stay. If I ask them to leave my home because they do not have my permission to stay, its only right that they leave my home....as simple as that. Illegal immigrants are like guest in my house who takes over my house against my will. If they do not leave as I ask them to, I have no choice but force them out my house. So...what's so hard for anyone to understand that?" Unquote....though I may disagree with my daughter, this is her conviction as far as illegal immigrants are concern.  hottriplej: Wow Sabrina,,,,,,your daughter sure can state her convictions strongly,,,,although...........if we are not Native American, Weren't we all immigrants at one time?  davidk14: I've lived in Arizona since 1978. I live in Phoenix. The violence here is out of control. A few facts: 1) The vast majority of violence here is because of the gangs, human smuglers, and drug cartes which are composed of illegal Mexican Nationals. The police had not been able to ask these violent people in custody or not in custody if they were American citizens or not. Now they can and they can be deported whether or not they are convicted of a crime. If they are convicted of a crime, they can be deported after their jail time is up. 2) Police can not just ask anyone if they are legal or illegal. For example, if a car is stopped for a traffic violation, police procedure is for the officer to identify all people in the car. (AZ Drivers licences issued after 1996, you have to provide the DMV with US citizenship.) If a valid Arizona drivers licence or identification issued after 1996 is produced by all in the car, they always run everyone in the car for priors to see if any of the occupants is wanted for prior crimes. Now, they will also run those without valid AZ ID or drivers licences prior to 1996 for citizenship. 3) Those you see on TV against the law are either: A) illegal, B) are legal and have friends that are illegal 3) are legal and have family members that are illegal. I know illegal people from Mexico. For years I have known these folks. They are as American as I am. Many are better Americans than Euorpean, African, or Asian Americans that I know. But, they entered this country illegally. These folks are caught between a rock and a hard place. Most of them have kids born in the US and these kids are US citizens. Creates a very difficult situation. The problem is the federal government who's prime responsibility is security at the borders, specifically the administration in power at the time, whether it was Clinton, Bush, or Obama, did and do not deal with the security at the border for their own political re-election reasons. Period. They dont want to honestly tackle the problem. You cant just give everyone amnesty. You first have to seal the border so illegal persons do not enter and that is just not being done currently by this administration. The administration doesnt want to piss off the Mexican electorate nor big business that uses illegal workers for lower paying jobs. Obama wants amnesty without securing the borders first before the 2012 elections which will almost secure his 2nd term. Thats the only reason he doesnt want to tackle sealing the border yet he wants amnesty and thats why he threw the Arizona Governor under the bus. The governors only motive is to protect the citizens of Arizona from the unbelievable crime we are currently having here. These violent illegal people.... NOT IMMIGRANTS WANTING TO START A LIFE IN THE TRADITION OF AMERICA ...are not like your run of the mill bad guys, they are like your run of the mill terrorists, heavily armed and would kill you for no reason. They have no morals or ethical codes. Most home invasions here end very badly. Men women and children are slaughtered or worse. My son in law is a police officer here in Phoenix and witnesses the brutality almost on a daily basis. sabrinalilypup: Reply to hott.... My daughter hott is one different kind...no mercy. Don't even try to give her that "we are all immigrants at one time or another in this country, and that we singlehandedly took this country in the hands of the native Indians who really was the native Americans." I can just about tell you what she will reply to you...I know her so very well. Quote, "yes, we are all immigrants in this country at one time or another, but we rightfully fought the natives of this land to secure our stake on this land...that is what the Forefathers fought for so we can say this land belongs to us now." We just didn't come here and thought that the native will accept us just like that, don't think so. Are you now telling me that this illegal immigrants can just comes here, done nothing, and we are to accept them just like that? Oh no no no. That can not be. I was born here, this is my homeland, you were born some place else so go back to your homeland. For you to stay at my home, I will have to grant you permission, otherwise, you have to go home because you have no rights to stay here. Period." My husband and I, we stop where she leaves it. We do not take it any further. Can't win with her. She has more to say if you take it any further. I love to pick her brain, she defend her arguments...If I don't have all the facts or can not remember facts that concerns any arguments, I will not take her on. davidk14: Sab, The President did not support the republican governor because he does not believe in securing the border for political reasons and those reasons alone., Sheriffs and governors all along the border have been begging and pleading for help for the past year,from the current administration to get security under control. Americans homes have been invaded, and many have lost their lives because of these illegals coming in from Mexico. Thats just a fact and whether or not you have heard it or not, thats the truth. Just because a president did something stupid doesnt mean its ok to repeat the same stupid decision. I believe it was Reagan in 1986. The immigration issue is directly tied to the violence here in Arizona and absolutely nothing else. The crime, the drugs, the murders, the home invasions has been directly linked to illigal aliens. So dont let your left wing media tell you different. Dont be manipulated to think anything different. The police have rules of constitution conduct to engage the public and those dont change. THis new law just gves them another "tool" to combat illegals.  TheRover: heres my simple little thought on the subject of illegal immigrants. #1 key word here is ILLEGAL #2 key word here is ILLEGAL theres nothing wrong with immigrants just do it legally, its that simple. this is one of those situations where profiling should be ok. this is what id like to see our government do. close our military bases in germany, japan, and south korea, bring the troops home from iraq and afghanistan, and move them all to the us/mexico border immediately. sabrinalilypup: Rover....you share the same sentiment of my daughter. You want to come to USA, the line is over there. Make it legal for gads sake. OK now Rover...Iraq and Agfanistan...yes, I say bring the troops home. Can't bring all of them troops home all over the world, we need to base ourselves in other countries to maintain our military presence. Just a reminder "we are here for peace and if you need help, we are here for that reason". TheRover: not trying to argue with you and not trying to be a dick here lol but.. you say we are here for peace yet you agree about bringing the troops home from iraq and afghanistan 2 countries that are are far from being at peace. but you still want troops in germany and japan and protecting the south lorea border. germany and japan would do fine without us and as for south korea, theyre big boys now, they can take care of themselves. besides we could annihalate ( lol i cant spell that one, too many syllables) most counties with just 1 of our aircraft carriers if we were "asked" for help. all those troops in those bases need to be here due to the massive problem we are facing right now at our southern border. on another note, what do you think when you here people say that these immigration laws and discussions are racist? it kinda annoys me because to me its just a problem of of illegal immigrants, most just happen to be mexican, which makes sense because the whole problem is with the us/mexican border. right? franklin1950: if the federal government enforced their existing laws than individual states would not have to. i myself prefere to show my identification to authorities . [ i believe i could otherwise be held untill my intentity is varified . [ and no wants or warrants ] . i hate this clique but ..... " if your doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about " john1576: It is sad America has come to this. I remember hearing of a story from the U.S. where a Police Officer stopped an American and asked him his name and asked for some I.D. The man told the Police man to mind his own business and leave him alone. Inevitably they guy was arrested, but when the case came to Court the Judge found in favour of the Citizen against the Police. 'No American should be stopped and questioned by the Police unless there is reasonable reason for the Police Officer to stop a Citizen, this is not the Soviet Union'. This in the 1970s. davidk14: You are either for legal immigration or you are not. I am for legal immigration. Are you? Rover, Even if all troups come home from overseas, the only troups that can go to the border are national guard memebers because federal troups by law are unable to be deployed for policing actions. We have plenty of national guard troups already here in the states. In 1996 Arizona started a program where to get either a valid drivers licence or identification card, you needed to show proof that you were an American citizen. That was 14 years ago. Was there any out cry because of that law? No. This new law does not circomvent any current existing city, state or federal law regarding the constitution which our fine law enforcement officers currently follow. Its just another tool for law enforcement. Again, you are either for legal immigration or you are not. I am for legal immigration. Are you? davidk14: John, Of course the guy won in court with the facts you gave. But the information you failed to provide us was the officers response to why this person was stopped. And its not sad that America has come to this, it's thank God that this has now become a front burner topic. For too many years the politicians in Washington have not addressed the immigration issue and I applaud the Arizona Governor for being brave and bold taking a stand for Americans. This will now put a fire under their butts to deal with protecting American citizens which is there main priority according to the US Constitution. sabrinalilypup: Answer to John..... My neighbor spent a day in jail when that morning he went jogging and somehow the police people patrolling our area stopped him and asked for his I.D., he can not show one. He told the officers that he is a public defender for the County, which is really true, but just the same, no I.D. they took him to jail. And this is not even an issue of immigration. The incident was only an issue of random check of identification. He was the laughing stock of the whole County, my attorney (a civil and criminal Lawyer in the County) was cracking up so hard. They all told him how stupid can he be for not carrying any I.D. on him...he is a brilliant attorney (public defender) for the County. He should know better. There was no reason why the police stopped him, just a random stop they made being that they are the patrolling officers in our neighborhood. My neighbor was just so embarrassed. I don't know how true was your story. A citizen can not sue an officer of the law just for asking for his I.D. and if the citizen can not show I.D. he gets thrown in jail just like my neighbor. sabrinalilypup: FRANKLIN/////QUOTE, "i myself prefere to show my identification to authorities . [ i believe i could otherwise be held untill my intentity is varified . [ and no wants or warrants ] . i hate this clique but ..... " if your doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about " ================================== PRUDENCE/////QUOTE, "I never go out the door without any form of I.D. I have to have one I.D.where ever I go. When we were traveling in Europe, dang! how many policeman stopped us along the way asking us for our I.D. - this is the reason why I carry an I.D. at all times." davidk14: Sab, Edit Note: I was resonding to Sab regarding middle east issues... Sadam used biological and chemical weapons on his own people killing 10's of thousands. You dont leave a madman like that alone. Sadam was paying $25,000 to each suicide bomber to attack Israel killing thousands. You dont leave a madman like that alone. Sadam invaded a country killing thousands, you dont leave a madman like that alone. Sadam had torture rooms killing thousands, and rape rooms all over his country to keep the population in line. You dont leave a madman like that alone. The UN had 17 Security Resolutions against him because he was a madman. There have been too many times is recent history of exterminations by heads of governments which we did nothing about like in Rawanda where hundreds of thousands were killed, in Uganda where millions were killed, and in the Sudan where hundreds of thousnads of people were slaughtered. So, dont be to hard on Bush, he saved hudreds of thousands if not millions of peoples lives. I understand your committment to the safety and well being of United States citizens and staying out of other peoples affairs. The reason were still in Afganistan and Pakistan is because we can not allow the Islamic terrorists to aquire the nuclear weapons in Pakistan. Iran to Obama is what Iraq was to Bush. Both tried UN Sactions. Obama is right in the middle of realizing that Iran is very, very dangerous and does not want to play ball with him. We will see if this administration stands up to a terrorist country trying very hard to build a nuclear bomb. When they get the bomb, they will themselves use it or may give it and or nuclear materials for dirty bombs to Syria, Hamas or Hezbola. The spread of these nuclear materals in the middle east will be the worst thing to happen in our lifetime. john1576: Sabrina. I am 55 years old, I have never carried 'identity papers' in my life, and no Police Officer has ever stopped me and asked me for identity papers. A Police Officer in England will never stop you and ask for Identity Papers, there is no such thing here. davidk14: John, In my 57 years living in America, I too have never had a government official stop me for identification. The only time I have been asked is when stopped in a motor vehicle or at the airport getting on a flight. sabrinalilypup: England John? and Spain? and Portugal, Italy, Austria, & Germany, Czech Republic, Hungary (Budapest).....yes they did ask for our I.D. England was in a Pub (thinking I was a minor drinking)....Spain was in the market place buying stuff from illegal side walk vendor (this one is funny, very funny), Italy in Florence at the Shoe and Handbags Plaza because the salesperson was a crook, can not remember the Circle name, Austria at the bus stop because we were asking a whole lot of people what bus to take to go back to our hotel and it just so happen a policeman was standing there looking at us and ask us for an I.D., actually he help us what bus to take, Germany because we were roaming around from one pub to the other looking at Menu's and and can't decide which one we can afford, we did not realize a Policeman was observing us and stop us for an I.D., and Czechs Republic because we were lost and can not find our way where our Tour Bus was park and I was crying and the police thought that I was in trouble, in Budapest at the market place because the person we accidentally bump into made a big scene, we don't even understand what she was saying but the police came and ask for our I.D..... These are the incidences that we were asked for an I.D. not that we were doing something against the law but that it's only right for them to ask I.D. if they have reason to. sabrinalilypup: John and David... This very funny story. Let me tell you the story in Spain when my husband and I was walking around the mall (open mall) and two policeman already had an idea who we were... tourist. We cruise the place street by street and every time we turn the corner those two policemen are the same policemen we meet at each corner. They seem to know us already. When the policemen were not around, sidewalk vendors appears in the street. So my husband was buying goggles from this street vendor and he was holding the goggles he wanted to buy, when all of sudden the vendor folded his peddler blanket with the good on it and started running and here was my husband holding the goggles and his money and started running after the vendor because he has not paid them and he wanted to pay them. I was left standing there like a stupid fool and don't know where my husband went to follow the vendor. Then I look up, and saw the same policemen that we meet at every corner started heading towards me. As tall as they are, standing in front of me, one put both his hands by his hip tapping his shoes on the floor, and the other was looking at me and saying "ahah! ahah! with one hands by his hip. Then in castillian spanish ask me who was the man I was with, and why did he run along with the vendor? I understood the question but I can't answer in spanish so all I can say, shrug my shoulder and said in english, "it is my husband and I don't know why he run after the vendor". Then he ask for my I.D. which I gave them my passport, look at me, tap me by my shoulder smiling as they walk away and stood at the corner again. I'm still standing at the middle of the street, hoping that my husband will find me in the same spot where he left me. In a little while, I saw my husband appeared from nowhere, and I ask him why the vendor started running. He said that its illegal to sell in the sidewalk without a license because if they get caught by the police, they will take them to jail and fine them. Now I know the reason why we see those two policemen at the every corner of the street because they were watching for illegal sidewalk vendors. As we were speaking, the same two policemen who approach me earlier tap him on his shoulder and ask him for his I.D. You should have seen my husband turn livid. They ask him in broken english why was he running with the vendors. My husband answered he was not running with them but running after the vendor to pay for his goggles. Policemen look at his passport and pat him in the back and said,,,,"do not buy goods from them because they are not license to sell. Go do shopping in the store." And they both walk away smiling and shaking their heads. It was not funny then, but as I recall our experience today, its hilarious specially the way those two policemen approach me trying to intimidate the hell out of me. davidk14: What most dont know is that to apply for a Arizona Drivers LIcense or ID card, since 1996, you need to provide the state with documents that you are a citizen of the United States. So when a police officer stops you for a legal stop, and you have a drivers license or ID card issued after 1996, the officer will not ask you if you are legal. Who still has a drivers license or ID card issued after 1996? Not me and I've lived here since 1978. This new law is to address the horrible violence caused by illegal aliens and nothing else.  writerboy: View from afar. You people are in for trouble. The demographics are clear. You are being flooded with Hispanics, and the ones there, legally or illegally, are having way more babies than everyone else. Hispanics are going to make up 30% of voters within the next 20-30 years. That's going to be trouble if they haven't been fully absorbed into the mainstream, and that's going to be hard to do as long as you have millions pouring across your border every year. During the demos last year there were plenty of Hispanic demonstrators holding up signs which basically said "We're taking back this country" or words to that effect. You could see separatist parties in states with high Hispanic populations, and at the very least, a strong move for Spanish to be recognized as an official national language like French is in Canada. I don't see what you can do about it, though. The Democrats have already seen the way the Hispanic population is headed and are not going to do a thing which can be seen as being opposed to them. And the Republicans, well, Bush was, for some reason I never figured out, in Mexico's pocket, and did anything they wanted. Besides, the Republicans do what business tells them, and business likes lots of cheap workers who don't complain. 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