New AZ Illegal Immigration Law (Page 4)

davidk14
davidk14: Taken from ABC News Web-site:

1. Will SB1070 force police to racially profile?

SB1070 says police cannot solely consider race, color or national origin.

It also says officers can only ask during a valid traffic stop or an investigation with probable cause.

In short, for those who say it allows officers to profile... it doesn't.

2. Will you need to prove that you are a U.S. citizen if you are stopped?

The bill is clear, if you're a U.S. citizen you need local, state or federally issued identification, like a driver's license.

If you're a naturalized citizen you need your green card or proof of citizenship. But that's already required by the U.S. government, not Arizona.

So do you need proof? Yes.

3. Another concern is if SB1070 will cost governments and taxpayers.

The law will require every officer to be trained. The governor just ordered it.

There will also be extra costs for prosecuting, transporting and jailing suspects.

How much? Police and correction departments are still figuring that out, but it will cost us.

4. Other issues have come up about if the bill is constitutional and if it "mirrors" federal law.

The bill is based on U.S. statutes and gives Arizona police the power that federal officers have.

It's not a new idea. In 1996, the U.S. trained local officers to enforce national immigration laws under the 287(g) program.
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davidk14
davidk14: Mr. Evans also wrote: “Arizona’s new anti-immigration law is a knee-jerk reaction to the federal government’s failure to do its job”.

Mark B. Evans - the 14th Amendment (requires equal protection under the law and prohibits racial profiling)

The 14th Amendment grants equal protection, not equal rights, and applies only to states, not to the federal government.


Mark B Evans - the 5th Amendment (protects us from self-incrimination and requires due process); presumption of innocence (we're all innocent until proven guilty; the state must prove its case against us, not the other way around);

The 5th Amendment - 'No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury. This amendment refers to after the person has been arrested for a crime.


Mark B. Evans - and proof of citizenship (neither the 14th Amendment nor the 1798 Naturalization Act which establish citizenship require anyone in the United States to carry proof of citizenship).

The 1798 Naturalization Act was repealed in 1802.

The 14th Amendment grants equal protection, not equal rights, and applies only to states, not to the federal government.


Federal Immigration Law requires all non-citizens to carry on their person documentation issued by government agency so that person can be identified as such.
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sabrinalilypup
sabrinalilypup: Arizona Immigration Law Sparks National Uproar

 Students Withdraw From Arizona Universities In Reaction To Law
 Virginia Governor: Elements Of AZ Law Not 'Necessarily Helpful To Democracy'
 Mayor Bloomberg: 'This Country Is Committing National Suicide'
 Holder: Court Challenge Possible Over AZ Law
 Legal Scholars Say Law Is Unconstitutional
 Ex-Bush Homeland Security Chief Uncomfortable With Law
 Meghan McCain: 'Hate the Law, Not Arizonans'
 Rove: Law May Be Unconstitutional
 Shep Smith Calls Arizona Immigration Bill "Breathing While Latino Law"
 Jeb Bush Predicts 'Unintended Consequences'

Arizona Congressman: An 'Unjust' And 'Racist' Law
"We're going to overturn this unjust and racist law, and then we're going to overturn the power structure that created this unjust, racist law," Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz) said, according to the Associated Press.

Former Florida GOP Congressman and current MSNBC Host Joe Scarborough harshly criticized Arizona's SB 1070 Tuesday morning, deeming it "unacceptable" and "un-American."

Al Sharpton: 'Two Wrongs Don't Make One Civil Right'
"When you have a law that profiles people -- let's face it you can say whatever you want. When they're saying there's an enormous amount of people coming across the border from Mexico, therefore they're really saying 'We're going to stop people that look like Mexicans to check their identifications.' Which is to profile people based on race," Al Sharpton told MSNBC. "We cannot profile people based on race."
"Two wrongs don't make one civil right," he added

White House Adviser: Bill 'Undermines Basic Elements Of Fairness And Justice In Our Country'
The White House domestic policy adviser, Melody Barnes, told MSNBC: “We're going to monitor this law ... People are looking at it very, very closely.”

New Mexico Gov: The Bill Is 'A Terrible Piece Of Legislation'
New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson told CNN that if he were President, he would look into the legality of the bill. "It's going to mean racial profiling," Richardson said.


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davidk14
davidk14: Regarding International Law - Our immigration laws are lax compared to Mexico's. So international law is moot regarding this situation on our southern border.
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davidk14
davidk14: THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN. THE POLITICIANS WORK FOR US...NOT US FOR THEM.

THE POLLS STILL show 61% of voters nation wide believe AZ was right to take action instead of waiting for the federal government to do something on immigration.

Of registered voters, 77% of republicans, 72% of independents and 43% of democrats support AZ taking action.

64% of all registered voters think the federal government should see how the new law AZ works.

60% of registered votes think the Mexican Government is the one that deserves to be targeted by protests for creating the conditions that so many of its citizens want to leave, instead of protesting the US government for having tough immigration laws.

79% of registered voters favor using the national guard at the border.

53% of registered voters favor completeing the wall on the border.

AGAIN, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN. THE POLITICIANS WORK FOR US...NOT US FOR THEM.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS AGAINST THE LAW!!!!!!!!
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davidk14
davidk14: Before anything can be done about illegal immigration, the borders first must be secured. We have to know who's here. Americans are dieing on the border becase of illegal immigration. Nobody should support any politicians that are againt securing the border. It's all about collecting Hispanic votes.
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davidk14
davidk14: READ THE BILL.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

DON'T LISTEN, JUST READ IT.
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john1576
john1576: David Old Chap calm down. We all know you are passionate about the Constitution. You are working yourself up into a 'Tizzy'.
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davidk14
davidk14: Thanks John...But I'm not worked up. I'm all for legal immigration as are 99% of Americans. People just need to read the bill and start thinking about securing the borders first. Then reform the immigration on the books. If the borders are not secured, then we will be back here in 10 years again with millions of more illegals. In 1986, when the Reagan amnesty went through, it went through because they promised the borders would be secured. They weren't and here we are again. Hey, off subject, what sort of work do you do if you dont mind saying? If you do, I understand. Thanks.
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john1576
john1576: Thanks for asking about me Dave. But I like to keep my time on Wire and my private life separate. It's O.K. talking to you folks in the U.S. but as you can probably see here on the Forums I attract some sleazy people who say they live in England. 'Chavs' as we call them here (it is embarrassing if you meet these low life's). Taling of personal details, I had a look at my Facebook Page the other day and some had altered my personal details and photographs, I didn't think people could do that? As I say Dave, please don't think I mistrust you, I just want to keep the local scum at arms length.
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john1576
john1576: Thanks for asking about me Dave. But I like to keep my time on Wire and my private life separate. It's O.K. talking to you folks in the U.S. but as you can probably see here on the Forums I attract some sleazy people who say they live in England. 'Chavs' as we call them here (it is embarrassing if you meet these low life's). Talking of personal details, I had a look at my Facebook Page the other day and some one had altered my personal details and photographs, I didn't think people could do that? As I say Dave, please don't think I mistrust you, I just want to keep the local scum at arms length. There is an old saying in the Dixie, 'don't wrestle with pigs, they will enjoy it but you will end up filthy and smelly like them', hence I try to avoid talking to some scum on Wire.
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CandyRivers
CandyRivers: Actually David, what it is with John, he doesn't attract anyone. He just repulses everyone. He can't relate to other english people as they know that what he posts here as his facts are indeed just things he has made up to make himself sound important.
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john1576
john1576: David, see what I mean? would you like to meet someone of that kind? They show themselves for what they are in their slanderous, taunting, and often despicable insults. No wonder respectable folks like me are leaving. Then again, am not surprised they have turned out like they have..... if you know what I mean.....
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CandyRivers
CandyRivers: he is still upset cos I told him he looks like a pedo.
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davidk14
davidk14: *david sits in corner waiting for dust to settle*
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CandyRivers
CandyRivers: it never will cos old pedo features keeps opening his stupid arse mouth and talking rubbish.
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john1576
john1576: Dave, you do right my friend. I have taken action against this kind of person in the past. There are usually two routes to go, Industrial Tribunals or Civil Courts. Trouble with Industrial Tribunals and Civil Courts is you need to have witnesses who can confirm what these people have said. This is a strange case as the person is actually making the statements in an Web Site that can be presented in Court. Am expecting another piece of trash to turn up soon. It will be wall to wall guttersnipes in here.
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StuckInTheSixties
StuckInTheSixties: How come I never got sued, and "the authorities" never came and got me?
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CandyRivers
CandyRivers: Impotent words old man. I would love to be a privvy to that meeting,
boo hoo, someone on the internet says I talk rubbish and I look like a pedo.

Seriously, stop making things up and I will leave you alone.
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sabrinalilypup
sabrinalilypup: John1576....I invited to add you as a friend, and since you ignore the invite, you will only know me accordingly. Like I said, I've been to England so many times, and I get all my current issue of England from my cousins and their 3 boys (my nephews)one who also graduated in Cambridge U, (like my daughter who attended Cambridge for her foreign studies), one is currently attending Brighton University, and the other one just graduated from Sawyer Hall College and will be attending Cambridge soon.
I have told you we stay in Essex when we are in England, and am really curious what part of England do you reside?
I once ask if you are an American who now lives in England, you said you are a Britton, so I took your word for that. or are you really?
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sabrinalilypup
sabrinalilypup: Can anyone define and differentiate the following:

What does international concern mean to you? versus
What is International Law?

Hell lot of different is it? Some stupid is confusing International concern versus International Law. That is how that moron interpret two different thing into one.
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john1576
john1576: Sabrina. I would have thought that even a casual glance at the despicable posts made by a few guttersnipes aimed at me for no reason would be enough to let anyone know I wish to keep my life here on Wire separate from the scum who make their nauseating presence known on some threads. Some people are just too nauseating and stomach turning to be around. I have no idea why you are telling me about Essex, 'Essex' what the hell do I want to know about Essex?
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sabrinalilypup
sabrinalilypup: John1576....Essex is a city near London...a 30 minutes ride from London. Are you sure you are from England?
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sabrinalilypup
sabrinalilypup: According to davidk14 -"The 14th Amendment grants equal protection, not equal rights, and applies only to states, not to the federal government."

So that this moron does not confuse anyone else.... Everyone has equal rights under the 14th Amendment by virtue of its Bill of Rights. "Equal Protection" clause was inserted in the 14th Amendments for the affairs of the States because some States refuse to acknowledge the "Equal Rights" under the Constitution. It was necessary to include the "Equal Protection" clause in the 14th Amendment to enforce States to abide by the "Equal Rights" part of the Constitution.

For the same token ...davidk14 in his moronic statement, "Federal Immigration Law requires all non-citizens to carry on their person documentation issued by government agency so that person can be identified as such."
davidk14 has not traveled outside the USA so he has no clue actually what is required of him when traveling in another country. Any citizens of the world who are non-citizens of another country while in that particular country...has to carry with him/her person their VISAS and/or passport at all times where ever they go when traveling in another country...not only in USA but around the world...mandatory matter of fact in all countries of the world. When we went to Russia and Poland, a visa is required of us to enter the country, unlike the other parts in Europe, passport is good enough. In Poland and Russia you need not only have a passport, but you also need a visa as well. USA is no different than other countries, if you are here in the USA as non-citizen you better have with you your passport and/or you visa with you at all times, not only because it is required by the Immigration Law of USA but because it is an International requirement for all citizens of the world.
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davidk14
davidk14: Sab said: According to davidk14 -"The 14th Amendment grants equal protection, not equal rights, and applies only to states, not to the federal government."

So that this moron does not confuse anyone else.... Everyone has equal rights under the 14th Amendment by virtue of its Bill of Rights. "Equal Protection" clause was inserted in the 14th Amendments for the affairs of the States because some States refuse to acknowledge the "Equal Rights" under the Constitution. It was necessary to include the "Equal Protection" clause in the 14th Amendment to enforce States to abide by the "Equal Rights" part of the Constitution.

David says: The following is exactly what Section 1 of the 14th Amendment says:

Amendment XIV
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

You will notice the key phrases are, "without due process of law" and "nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws". SB 1070 "mirrors" federal immigration laws, therefore, the SB 1070 is following the 14th Amendment verbatum and federal immigration laws. There are no clauses in 1070 that support anything but existing law. If you have read the bill, you would know this.

Sab Said: For the same token ...davidk14 in his moronic statement, "Federal Immigration Law requires all non-citizens to carry on their person documentation issued by government agency so that person can be identified as such."

davidk14 has not traveled outside the USA so he has no clue actually what is required of him when traveling in another country. Any citizens of the world who are non-citizens of another country while in that particular country...has to carry with him/her person their VISAS at all times where ever they go when traveling in another country...not only in USA but around the world...mandatory matter of fact in all countries of the world...not just because USA Federal Immigration Law requires of it.

David said: I see you agree with the Federal Immigration Law which SR 1070 mirrors. And yes, I have traveled outside the US and have followed and respected those countries immigration laws.

Have you read the Arizona Senate Bill 1070 yet?
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf
If you havn't, I highly suggest you do. It might just be a good learning experience for you.


This bill mirrors exactly the federal law. If you havn't, some might suggest the possibility that you have nothing to say of any importance to add to this discussion if you try to argue or debate the issue.
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