Capitalism Vs. Socialism (Page 4) davidk14: To all, This thread is about Capitalism vs Socialism. Please try to narrow the conversation to this topic. Thank you.  sabrinalilypup: davidk14....I AM USING MY 1ST AMENDMENTS RIGHTS....DON'T TELL ME WHAT I CAN AND CAN NOT SAY ON ANY TOPIC....just keep on reading if you must....or don't. sabrinalilypup: I WOULD LOVE TO BACK STAB YOU davidk14...IF THAT;S HOW YOU WANT TO PUT IT...WOULD LOVE IT AT ANYTIME. MY PLEASURE INDEED. davidk14: Sab, Slow down...Take a deep breath before you respond....Are you suggesting you would actually stab me in the back or are you saying you would just say dishonest comments about me? sabrinalilypup: You are such an inept person davidk14....at least the mentally challenge has hope...but as for yourself...you are HOPELESS. davidk14: Thank you for clarifing your position. I actually thought you might think I was dishonest or lacked an adherence to moral or ethical principles or that I lacked moral character. Again, thank you. I feel much better now. sabrinalilypup: davidk14 - You neither have any moral or ethical principles....matter of fact you DO NOT have any PRINCIPLES at all, period...my perception alone. You are one of the many who I would avoid at all cost in my lifetime. You are nowhere near my league I can tell you that. There are no one around me as inept as you are...you can convincingly say that to yourself, FROM ME TO YOU. If that makes you feel better, I am saying it right now right smack on your face.
davidk14: Sab, You're just a wonderful person. Full of love. A wonderful mentor to those who believe in the truth and teaching others how important it is to have positive communications with those that have different beliefs. Inspirational! You are an inspiration to me because when you are confronted with the truth, supported by undeniable verifiable research and facts, you always thank them for enlightening you. And once a debate shows your thoughts about a topic is inconsitent with the facts, you always thank them for teaching you something you did not know suggesting another possibility. Just brillant! I wish that everyone could learn this lesson from you. This world would be a better place. Best Regards, DavidK14  TheAbsurdist: I suggest you two take it somewhere else. I'm interested in real discussion towards the actual topic. I did not create this to watch two users spew nonsense against each other. davidk14: Absurdist, I agree as I said on page 8 that the discussion "Capitalism vs Socialism" stay on track. sabrinalilypup: David.....I AM A GOOD PERSON BY CHOICE. Asinine like you need to be put in your place. Absurdist...no disrespect in your Forum, believe me. I just have to put this asinine davidk14 where he belongs. Unfortunately, this ass can not see himself in the mirror. So I took it upon myself to serve as a mirror...and he can not stomach himself. David.....you got the nerve to echo my words.....echo your own words, and I quote in your own words..."Outback, You are so stupid, you think a b%*yzw~ is a real job! Nibble at your own word a^*y&wx. sabrinalilypup: Absurdist....we are all waiting for david to show up in the chat room....he is bold to say things in this Forum but let him be in the chat room and I will slam his ass right in front of everybody. If davidk14 think he is a mother fw#^~^, he does not know who he's f~^~@*x with. I will just say Amen to this. sabrinalilypup: Absurdist...for an 18 year old.....you seem to be very mature, way far advance for your age. davidk14: To help restart this topic, I feel the following descriptions of Socialism and Capitalism are reasonable. Does anyone dispute or think the descripions should be different? so·cial·ism /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Show Spelled[soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA –noun 1.a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. 2.procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. 3.(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved Capitalism definition n. An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market. In such a system, individuals and firms have the right to own and use wealth to earn income and to sell and purchase labor for wages with little or no government control. The function of regulating the economy is then achieved mainly through the operation of market forces where prices and profit dictate where and how resources are used and allocated. The U.S. is a capitalistic system. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. Does anyone dispute or think the descripions should be different? Outbackjack: HA HA HA HA!!!!! I see by your silly little rant about how I am stupid that I am obviously getting under your skin David?Claude Robichaux even if you did copy and paste some of them. But then the majority of your answers are copy and pasted anyway. Keep up the good work,drone. davidk14: Outback, You are now Lenin, Jr. Your secrets been outed. The world knows the truth and you have no place to hide now. Good luck. Outbackjack: Okay.Its the weekend and I have a bit of spare time to indulge a certain McCartyite(why I bother is another thing).A certain McCarthyite who claims to be a busy hard working businessman but seems to have many leisurely hours to spend around here spreading his disinformation while having a tea party(Alice in Wonderland springs to mind). "Outback says: Socialism is another muddled mix. You have many variants and each person within them will usually tell you that they are a true Socialists. The main difference is between Revolutionary Socialism and democratic Socialism. One believes in overthrowing Capitalism and the other believes in the parliamentary system to make change." "David Says: I went to the Revolutionary Socialist Party website and retrevied the following www.rsp.com" You cite one source.Not even the Marxists who believe in revolution can agree.Some cite Lenin whilst other classical Marxists oppose Lenins take on Marxism.None of these two are actually Socialist they are Communist (state Capitalist) at heart but they will tell you differently. A lot of your points(should I say the points you copy and pasted) are correct on Democratic Socialism.However I will add that where Democratic Socialism fails is because the Capitalists pull out their money from these countries and send it elsewhere where they can make more profit.This further excaberates the situation of excess spending by the government. "Outback says: When you throw into the mix Leninism(dictatorship of the proletariat) as opposed to classical Marxism and then former British Prime Minister Atlees(Wikipedia: Democratic_socialism) Socialism,they are all completely different things. David says: The goal of Socialism is communism. Quote: Lenin" Lenin was a Communist no doubt.You show no understanding whatsoever of the Socialist tendancies of the time.If you did you would understand the goal of the Socialist Menshiviks under Kerensky was not Communism in 1917.If it was then Bolsheviks would never have had to wipe them out. "David says: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUattlee.htm During Prime Mister Atlees six years in office, he carried through a vigorous program of reform. The Bank of England, the coal mines, civil aviation, cable and wireless services, gas, electricity, railways, road transport and steel were nationalized. The National Health Service was introduced (1947). http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUattlee.htm" What are you getting at here? He sought to nationalise essential services whilst leaving non essential services in the hands of private industry.This is what,historically,Democratic socialists have done. "Outback says: Even Adolf Hitlers political party was called the Nationalist Socialist party even though they were dyed in the wool Fascists. David says: National Socialists Party (Germany) on 24th February, 1920, the NSDAP later nicknamed the Nazi Party. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERdrexler.htm" Are you trying to claim that the Nazis were not Fascists? "David says: Peronism in Argentina An economic, political, and social ideology called “social justice”, the combination of nationalism, and social democracy. It is the form of government in Argentina that exalts nationalism and attempts to accommodate the interests of business, industry, labor and the poor. This form of government highly subsidizes its military, private industry, public works, and the poor. Post WW2 , Peronism had been highly influential in Argentine politics and which resulted in Argentina's record for its inefficiency, bankrupt civil services, profitless industries and strong unions. Peronistic governments have also been accused of pursuing policies that abuse the human rights of Argentine citizens. http://www.answers.com/topic/peronism" This statement ignores(for better or worse) that the Argentinian people had their highest ever standard of living. Outbackjack: David:As the Cuban government struggles through a deep recession, its leaders have begun picking away at socialism in order to save it. But experts say the Cuban government is simply trying another desperate fix to stem the slide of a failed economy that buckled long ago. "I think what they are trying to do is prepare the people for a hard landing," said Cuba expert Jonathan Benjamin-Alvarado of the University of Nebraska. Raúl Castro has been saying that the country's severely battered economy needs fixing. In a widely quoted August speech, Castro said Cuba was spending more than it made. ‘Within the conditions of our imperfect socialism, due to our own shortcomings, two plus two often adds up to three.'' Since he took office, Castro restructured the nation's agricultural system to give idle land to farmers, hoping they would revive a deeply troubled state-run agricultural industry plagued by inefficiency. He also allowed taxi drivers to have private licenses; many were working illegally anyway. Castro suggested it was time to rethink fundamentals such as deep subsidies for everyone. "Cuba goes through cycles of strict ideological code, but that code does not function. That code leads to corruption, leads to the black market and leads to economic collapse," said Baruch College professor Ted Henken. What choice do they have? Since the collapse of the Soviet Union they no longer receive cheap oil and subsidised goods.Also the blockade by a majority of Capitalist countries has strangled the country.Cuba is not Socialist but technically Communist (state Capitalist). Whilst I have no fondness for the despotic Castro regime it is interesting to look at the positives.Cuba has one of the highest ratio of doctors per Capita in the developing world(who can forget the Sept 11 firefighters going there for treatment).Its education system is very well advanced. When the Soviet union collapsed,Cuba was on the verge of starvation.The population banded together and created a backyard collective of growing food and siccessfully staved off the threat of starvation.This I feel is a model that could be used in other third world countries which face starvation. "David Says: The Impact of the Sandinistas on Nicaragua Copyright 1998, by Jorian Polis Schutz" So you are admitting that not all Socialists want Communism and some such as Daniel Ortega were ready to embrace democracy? That doesnt sound like the evil dictatorial Marxists that have you frothing at the mouth.I would even go so far as to say that Daniel Ortega is a Christian. I bet thats shock horror for you learning that not all Socialists are non believers or as some put it "In league with the devil".  Outbackjack: "Outback, You are now Lenin, Jr. Your secrets been outed. The world knows the truth and you have no place to hide now. Good luck." I guess this just shows your mentality you rabid frothing McCarthyite. I HATE LENIN! Dont forget to check under your bed tonight. You never know I might be there. davidk14: Outback, Thank you for spending your time in helping me understand. A few points to clarify: You: Okay.Its the weekend and I have a bit of spare time to indulge a certain McCartyite(why I bother is another thing).A certain McCarthyite who claims to be a busy hard working businessman but seems to have many leisurely hours to spend around here spreading his disinformation while having a tea party(Alice in Wonderland springs to mind). Me: First, McCarthy was out of line and violated the 1st Amendment rights of many, seriously damaging dozens of peoples lives. So, respectfully, I am not a supporter of his tactics or ideology. Second, at this time I am semi-retired due to the economic conditions here. My specialty is not needed at this time. You: You [David] cite one source. Me: At least I site a source. You: Not even the Marxists who believe in revolution can agree.Some cite Lenin whilst other classical Marxists oppose Lenins take on Marxism.None of these two are actually Socialist they are Communist (state Capitalist) at heart but they will tell you differently. Me: Thanks. You: A lot of your points(should I say the points you copy and pasted) are correct on Democratic Socialism.However I will add that where Democratic Socialism fails is because the Capitalists pull out their money from these countries and send it elsewhere where they can make more profit.This further excaberates the situation of excess spending by the government. Me: What you call copy and paste is actually called quoting sources word for word. If you disagree with the source, thats fine, but I dont understand why you attack me and not the source. Even books have references quoting sources. You may not agree, but you dont attack the author for quoting the source. "Outback says: When you throw into the mix Leninism(dictatorship of the proletariat) as opposed to classical Marxism and then former British Prime Minister Atlees(Wikipedia: Democratic_socialism) Socialism,they are all completely different things. David says: The goal of Socialism is communism. Quote: Lenin" you: Lenin was a Communist no doubt.You show no understanding whatsoever of the Socialist tendancies of the time.If you did you would understand the goal of the Socialist Menshiviks under Kerensky was not Communism in 1917.If it was then Bolsheviks would never have had to wipe them out. Me: So you disaree with Lenin's quote? "David says: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUattlee.htm During Prime Mister Atlees six years in office, he carried through a vigorous program of reform. The Bank of England, the coal mines, civil aviation, cable and wireless services, gas, electricity, railways, road transport and steel were nationalized. The National Health Service was introduced (1947). http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUattlee.htm" You: What are you getting at here? He sought to nationalise essential services whilst leaving non essential services in the hands of private industry.This is what,historically,Democratic socialists have done. Me: Doesnt mean that its the right thing to do. "Outback says: Even Adolf Hitlers political party was called the Nationalist Socialist party even though they were dyed in the wool Fascists. David says: National Socialists Party (Germany) on 24th February, 1920, the NSDAP later nicknamed the Nazi Party. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERdrexler.htm" You: Are you trying to claim that the Nazis were not Fascists? Me: Of course not. Fascism starts somewhere and we know how that story ended. davidk14: You: (regarding Peronism) This statement ignores(for better or worse) that the Argentinian people had their highest ever standard of living. Me: Dont undersand how you can think that since "...which resulted in Argentina's record for its inefficiency, bankrupt civil services, profitless industries". How can you have the highest standard of living with these issues? Me: Regarding Cuba, exactly the point. Standing without the Soviets (communism) the socialist system doesnt work, even with the help of other socialist entites in the hemisphere. Regarding the 911 medical situation, obviously you have not been made aware, it was purely a Michael Moore propaganda. Are you trying to say that the firemen did not have insurance through their unions for American hospitls, the finest in the world? Just think about that. Me: Now, the issue for me here is that socilization, or as the new term beng thrown around, "Social Justice" doesn't work. Entitlement programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are bankrupt. Here are a few issues why. There's not enough Americans employed even when unemployment is at 4% to keep these programs solvent. Yesterday, national unemployment went up from 9.7% to 9.9%. The baby boomers within the next 10 years, approx. 60 million people are starting to apply for these entitlemnt programs . The workforce will shrink and that doesnt take into account the 30 million un-insured that will a large portion will be applying for as well. Look at Greece, a cradle to grave entitlement culture. Dont worry, dont save money, the government will take care of you. Look at the riots. These folks were way over promised and under delivered. Retirement at 53, full benefits for life, two month salary bonus per year, free medical for life. And when the government decides to try and fix the issue with a 3 year austerity measures, they go nuts. Greece, the small little county that it is, is $400 Billion in debt and currently at 115% of its GDP. It needs to borrow $140 billion dollars from the IMF and other EU countries immediately that just dont have it. The IMF biggest contributor? The USA at 17% which is over triple of any other country in the world. So my tax dollars, needs to help bail Greece out. (to be continued...have a lot more to ask you...Seriously, thank you for your time, it is being well spent on me.) | Politics Chat Room 54 People Chatting Similar Conversations |
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