$900 BILLION stimulus creates 910 jobs. (Page 2) Initiate117: What about jobs that were not lost as a result? Are those counted? How much of the stimulus was paid back? I'm thinking off the top of my head, a more meaningful formula would be: Jobs Created + Jobs Not Lost as a Result ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (Stimulus cost-Stimulus Repaid)*estimated bad debt % If you want to get really fancy about it, you should probably relate the time value of money to the stimulus cost- stimulus repaid business to really treat it as an investment. As for jobs not lost as a result, that seems like a very hard figure to estimate, but you could look at projections pre-stimulus et cetera, i'm sure some economists have a vague sense of how many this would be even if they disagree on many details. The other thing Is I wonder how much of the deficit has to do with congress gridlock, and how much has to do with actual presidential decisions. The president I assume wants to do what he's always blabbing about, changing the tax code and taxing the shit out of the higher income people. If you did that stuff, even if it had a bad affect on the economy it is a plan to eliminate the deficit. Just trying to bring up some relevant info, not trying to start a political flame war. I identify myself as an independent and I don't know who I will vote for next election. I apologize if i made any egregious errors with my assumptions here.  OCD_OCD: Maybe we should count the jobs of all of my employees, too, since they didn't lose their jobs. You can't count something that didn't and hasn't happened.  LiptonCambell: How would you count such a thing? Wouldn't that be an outright prediction? I love how people turn to impossibilities to "justify" their beliefs.....if the stats don't support their beliefs, then just make up stats that do! Oddly, unless I'm missing something, 60's didn't have anything to say other than the (huge) mistake in the title....900 billion is insane, but 9 billion is equally brutal for 900 jobs.... Initiate117: A really basic way to count would be this. Lets say we lose 50k jobs every year. The year of the stimulus we create 900 jobs. Since we didn't lose another 50k jobs we gained 50k+900 jobs. How many jobs did we expect to lose the year or period during the stimulus. http://www.accountability.idaho.gov/whatsnew/stimulus_dates.pdf If this data are relevant dates for enactment of different parts of stimulus funding, it seems as though the stimulus reversed a trend in unemployment. If i look at the time the stimulus was in effect, you start getting a lot of entries around march 2009 continuing on until around Febuary 2012. Match that up with a graph of the US employment rate http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=unemployment_rate&fdim_y=seasonality  &scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country&idim=country:US&ifdim=country&tstart=1080367200000&tend=1338098400000&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false&q=unemployment+rate Sorry the link is so long... and there you go. It looks like the graph hit it's peak and started going down right when the stimulus took place. That means unemployment started going down once the stimulus took effect presumably. I'm not necessarily trying to draw any conclusions what is right and wrong, but if the argument is concerning if the stimulus had an effect or not on jobs and employment, looking at the graph of what happened after the stimulus seems at least pretty positive and substantial. I mean what i did is totally basic. I compared the unemployment rate with when the stimulus was supposed to have an effect... I'm not trying to bamboozle anyone with rocket science. OCD_OCD: The problem is the people counted as "unemployed". People who are self-employed and lost their jobs and their companies are not counted. That includes truck drivers, mom and pop operations and many other small organizations. They lost their jobs and since they aren't allowed to get unemployment, their numbers were/are not counted. Then when they drop the people who have been on unemployment but have run out of benefits, the number of unemployed decreases because they are not counted. The other thing is what is a "saved" job? Is everyone that has a job working in a "saved" job? OCD_OCD: Excerpt from http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2011/10/03/Obamas-Stimulus-Jobs-Here-Today-Gone-Tomorrow.aspx#page1 'Edward Pound, a spokesman for recovery.gov, which was tasked with keeping track of the jobs created by the stimulus bill, says his agency did not break down the number of jobs into those who were unemployed prior to getting a stimulus job and those who were already working elsewhere. “The short answer is I don’t have an analysis on that,” Pound says. He parsed the recovery.gov jobs this way: “If I am paying you from April through June, I count that job in that quarter,” he says. Sara Merriam, spokeswoman for the General Services Administration, which keeps track of government jobs tied to the stimulus money, says her responsibility is to “count how many people are employed.” Says Merriam: “So, where those people were before, I don’t know.” '  Karma: If someone leaves a job to take a newly created one, then that means his old job is open and can be filled. It's not counted as a Stimulus created job, but the guy who moved is. LiptonCambell: But is it possible to record that in statistics? Or would you have to just make shit up? Magnus Eier: Yeeeeeeah, no.... Bush inherited a surplus. Obama inherited an 8 trillion deficit, two ongoing wars, the lowest tax rates in decades and a collapsing housing market that threatened to sink the country into a depression. I don't think he will ever run out of valid excuses. I had no idea Glenn Beck had a wire account.  StuckInTheSixties: I'm still amazed that people in this thread are talking about the fictional number of "900 BILLION." Why don't we pretend it's 900 TRILLION, or QUADRILLION, or QUINTILLION. That would be no less fictional. franklin1950: 900 billion or 900 trillion or quadtrillion or quitillion the current administration and its willing minions would still blame bush , the tea party , the rich and rush limbaugh . the progressives , the dems , the left will always claim their intentions were good rightious and pure no matter how terrible bad the unintennded [ intended ?? ] consecquense are . StuckInTheSixties: The number of jobs created depends on how one looks at what happened. 910 jobs? Or 4,600 jobs? Or 5,510 jobs? Or 52,000-75,000 jobs? LiptonCambell: Care to elaborate 60's? Moreover, do you have a source for your claims? I know how much disdain you have for making claims with no factual basis to back it up....... franklin1950: republican administration creats jobs they are called " burger flipper " jobs . dems create imaginary jobs with creative thinking and this is a great and wonderous thing . republicans want to kill old people , take medicine away from children , prevent women from having their abortions , take the vote away from non whites , etc etc . the dems only want what is best , good , proper , the right thing to do . the end justifies the end . StuckInTheSixties: Those aren't my claims. I'm not making any. But they can be found on page 1 of this thread. LiptonCambell: I'm confused then......what are you trying to say? That the "900 jobs for 9 billion" is wrong, but you can't present any evidence why, or what is right(despite giving several examples of what it could be?) What, exactly, did you mean to say with your previous comment? StuckInTheSixties: I'm just pointing out the wide range of claims being made given the same criteria. The main thing I was doing was chiding contributors to this thread that continued to parrot the 900 billion number when it's so obviously an error. franklin1950: knite picking . a debate technique well and often used . a simantic diversion . next come self rightious indignation at a perseeved personal level justifying the self rightious to attack on personal level . franklin1950: [ pick nits ] a more corect phrasing and spelling . nit picking .. example .... look at above post . | Politics Chat Room 25 People Chatting Similar Conversations |