Supreme Court Casts Doubt on Obama's Immigration Law Change

OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/25/supreme-court-casts-doubt-obamas-immigration-law-c/

Supreme Court justices took a dim view of the Obama administration’s claim that it can stop Arizona from enforcing immigration laws, telling government lawyers during oral argument Wednesday that the state appears to want to push federal officials, not conflict with them.

The court was hearing arguments on Arizona’s immigration crackdown law, which requires police to check the immigration status of those they suspect are in the country illegally, and would also write new state penalties for illegal immigrants who try to apply for jobs.

The Obama administration has sued, arguing that those provisions conflict with the federal government’s role in setting immigration policy, but justices on both sides of the aisle struggled to understand that argument.

“It seems to me the federal government just doesn’t want to know who’s here illegally,” Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. said at one point.

The Arizona law requires all police to check with federal officials if they suspect someone is in the country illegally. The government argues that is OK when it’s on a limited basis, but said having a state mandate for all of its law enforcement is essentially a method of trying to force the federal government to change its priorities.

Solicitor General Donald B. Verrilli Jr. said the federal government has limited resources and should have the right to determine the extent of calls it gets about possible illegal immigrants.

“These decisions have to be made at the national level,” he said.

But even Democratic-appointed justices were uncertain of that.

“I’m terribly confused by your answer,” said Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who went on to say that the federal government can always decline to pick up illegal immigrants when Arizona officials call.
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: The Obama administration was on its firmest ground when it argued Arizona should not be allowed to impose state penalties such as jail time against illegal immigrants who try to seek jobs.

Federal law chiefly targets employers, not employees, and Mr. Verrilli said adding stiffer penalties at the state level is not coordination. He said Congress’s 1986 immigration law laying out legal penalties was meant to be a comprehensive scheme, and Congress left employees untouched — and Justice Sotomayor seemed to agree.

“It seems odd to think the federal government is deciding on employer sanctions and has unconsciously decided not to punish employees,” she told Mr. Clement.

Only eight justices were present for the arguments. Justice Elana Kagan recused herself from the case, presumably because she was the Obama administration’s solicitor general in 2010, when the law was being debated in Arizona.

Gov. Jan Brewer, who signed the measure into law, was present for the arguments, as were members of Congress who follow the immigration issue: Rep. Zoe Lofgren of California, the top Democrat on the House immigration subcommittee, and Rep. Steve King, an Iowa Republican who has fought for an immigration crackdown.

Outside the court, supporters and opponents of the law rallied, while the line for observers snaked around the court building more than an hour before the argument began.
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: I have one comment: State's Rights.
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southern77
southern77: i have a comment also.... vote Romney and save america while theres a chance
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davidk14
davidk14: .

My comment regarding OCD's previous posts.....The administration is being called on the carpet.

.
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: Despite what this administration believes, States, Congress and the Supreme Court cannot be shunted aside under the Constitution.
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davidk14
davidk14: .


It's the Obama Administration.

.
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dave3974
dave3974: if you do not control your borders or have penalties for illegals you will end up in the same mess as the uk
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: that is what we are afraid of, Dave.
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: What mess is that??? dave we supposedly have in the UK, Im mean its bad but its not that bad to be giving warning to the Americans that they will end up like us lol. The only difference is that we are a small country compared to America which is far far larger then us and we have a obligation due to us being in the EU which the conservative government refuse for us to have referendum on us leaving it.
(Edited by lavendar_star)
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: We have a massive problem here with illegal aliens and it is an enormous strain on our state and federal budget, not to mention medical costs.
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: oh we have the same thing in the UK but dave giving warning to imply we are worse then you, I would say we are in the same boat but with different circumstances etc just like with Australia and Canada.
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: I don't want us to end up closing our borders to all immigration, but we need to be able to get a handle on this and catch our breath economically.
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: Yes well that's why we in the UK are bit different; we have 33 countries in the EU whose citizens are legally allowed to work and one could argue that some are taking jobs away from Brits. We just entered another recession so I would agree with that for your country and mine we need to fix our economics first. After all we are going to have more old people then teenagers and less people having children so we do need immigration just controlled and limited.
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: Agreed. I never thought the EU was a good thing.....
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dave3974
dave3974: what we do not need is massive uncontrolled immigration , in particular unskilled , unfortunately the soft touch welfare state is an attraction, and infrastucture is under a massive strain , the fact that english is a minority language in many inner city schools speaks for itself -------we are in a mess.
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dave3974
dave3974: The Government figures are at best skewed, it is thought that there are about 4 Million illegal immigrants, however we do not have a check out system, so whilst we know how many enter the country legally, we do not have any idea how many of them leave when they should.
We know that we have a massive illegal population, about 1000 a month are removed, however, we also know that many many more are never found.
We also know that about 14000 a year are detected trying to smuggle themselves through Calais, but we have no idea how many are not detected.

The "Legal" community readily absorb the Illegals, they put them to work for little or no wages but do feed and shelter them. We also have a huge asylum seeking population, and we know that thousands of failed asylum seekers remain in the UK, using our law to delay possible removal.
Some say that a realistic figure would be nearer 7 million, easy to believe if you live in London, Leicester, Birmingham, Bradford, etc, not so easy to believe if you lived in say Woking in Surrey, although I bet there is not a town or village in the UK that does not have at least a handful of immigrants.

I think if we only had those with legal status, then we probably wouldn't have an issue with immigrants, but the remainder are putting a massive burden on an already stretched system and that is what the general population is so angry about.

We are also handicapped by our own laws which the average 5 year old can run rings around. Added to that the human rights lobby, and we are ineffective at dealing with the problem.
(Edited by dave3974)
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dave3974
dave3974:
Record immigration is fuelling the biggest rise in the population for almost 50 years, official figures show.

ONS report on national population projections
Sir Andrew Green: We must cut back numbers now
Your view: How can Britain cope with the population surge?

Ten years from now, there will be 65 million people in the UK - an increase of five million - and by 2031, the population will be over 70 million, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.





Within a generation, immigration will add the equivalent of a city the size of London to the population.

This is the fastest growth rate since the post-war baby boom - and is far more rapid than the Government forecast just three years ago.

One campaign group accused the Government of conducting a ''vast unplanned experiment’’ with the country’s well-being.


Statisticians said at least 70 per cent of the population rise over the next 20 years will be attributable directly to immigration
we are a tiny island in a mess
(Edited by dave3974)
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: Same here, but while we are larger, so is our percentage of illegal immigration.
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: OK dave well first you have no references for you statistics recording the 4 million claim I heard it was a million illegal immigrants so that seems a big jump, one needs to confirm their claims with evidence.

"Some say that a realistic figure would be nearer 7 million" some proof again for these figures remember the Black n Asian people with British passports have been here since the 40s so some people could be confusing us for immigrants in the big cities. lol

"Statisticians said at least 70 per cent of the population rise over the next 20 years will be attributable directly to immigration" Yet again some proof is needed for this claim Im not disputing it but Im not believing it either.
Furthermore, you cant claim benefits/welfare unless your a British or EU citizens New Labour sought to that so in regards to welfare that pertains to the NHS.

The rest I dont take issue with but some proof would be more viable to believe those figures. One should also note that it wasnt for some of these immigrants many of the undesirable job wont be filled by Brits. However, one should also remember we have big old people population so we will always need immigrants considering the low birth rate of the host population, are you going to wipe old person ass in a care home or work at take away shop for minimum wage!!!

"the fact that english is a minority language in many inner city schools" I would cite some then many,


One campaign group accused the Government of conducting a ''vast unplanned experiment’’ with the country’s well-being.<<< that statement just seem silly was that from the BNP or some similar group lol, But yes we do have a problem with immigration but I am sceptical regarding the numbers, the right or the far right can be over egging things to met their own political agenda.
(Edited by lavendar_star)
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: OK I have done some brief research as I think people should be responsible enough to back up their claims with proof or some reliable sources, you only gave a source for your last claim and that is still a prediction as government tighten immigration could decrease that projection of Britain's population rise for the future.

"As many as 947,000 illegal immigrants could be living in Britain, more than double a previous Home Office estimate. A study by the London School of Economics found evidence of a massive surge in the illegal population since 2001. Their estimate includes hundreds of thousands of failed asylum seekers, visa overstayers and children born to illegal immigrant parents." That's from 3 years ago and I doubt the numbers could of jumped in that time if you have proof that could dispute that be my guest.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1160642/Number-illegal-immigrants-Britain-nearing-1million.html#ixzz1tHAriYy3 <<< That's from the anti immigration and right wing newspaper.

Another source which claim the same figure of about 1.1. million illegal immigrants is http://www.aboutimmigration.co.uk/how-illegal-immigrants-enter-uk.html


Net immigration quadrupled to nearly 200,000 a year between 1997 and 2009. In 2010 it was 252,000. Over 3 million immigrants have arrived since 1997. http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/ << A anti immigration source.

So your figures were kind of right there is roughly 4 million legal and illegal immigrants in the UK NOT 7 million as you claim.

Also the majority of the recent immigration is coming from the EU and that is their legal right to do so considering we are in the EU, outside of the EU immigration has fallen. I really think some people have confused non white Brits for immigrants in regards to the areas you mentioned i.e. Leicester, Bradford, London etc not as actually British citizens. Who have been here since the 1940s and came and were asked to come here as part of the British Empire and some esp the Caribbeans actually have English or Scottish roots like myself, so we are British or English as anybody else

@OCD sorry to turn this British but it irks me when people don't provide evidence for their claims, its academic/ debating 101.
(Edited by lavendar_star)
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: Im not having a go at you dave before anyone jumps at me, I just like people to come with proof, I think all Western countries are having issue with both legal and illegal immigration my point before was that Britain is not unique in that situation, we should defo need harsher restriction and deport any illegal immigrant found in the country.
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dave3974
dave3974: Seven Key Facts

Net immigration quadrupled to nearly 200,000 a year between 1997 and 2009. In 2010 it was 252,000. Over 3 million immigrants have arrived since 1997. These are figures backed by the national census and uk government and widely known to be optimistic.

Migrants arrive almost every minute; they leave at just over half that rate.

We must build a new home every seven minutes for new migrants.

England is already, with the Netherlands, the most crowded country in Europe

The population of the UK will grow by over 7 million to 70 million in the next 16 years, 5 million due to immigration - that is 5 times the population of Birmingham.

To keep the population
of the UK, now 62.3 million, below 70 million, net immigration must be reduced to around 40,000 a year. It would then peak in mid century at about 68 million.
(Edited by dave3974)
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dave3974
dave3974: Some of the history of the mess the uk is in can be seen in this reprint from the respected Telegraph Daily
By Tom Whitehead, Home Affairs Editor

10:00PM GMT 09 Feb 2010





The release of a previously unseen document suggested that Labour’s migration policy over the past decade had been aimed not just at meeting the country’s economic needs, but also the Government’s “social objectives”.


The paper said migration would “enhance economic growth” and made clear that trying to halt or reverse it could be “economically damaging”. But it also stated that immigration had general “benefits” and that a new policy framework was needed to “maximise” the contribution of migration to the Government’s wider social aims.


The Government has always denied that social engineering played a part in its migration policy.


However, the paper, which was written in 2000 at a time when immigration began to increase dramatically, said controls were contrary to its policy objectives and could lead to “social exclusion”.


Last night, the Conservatives demanded an independent inquiry into the issue. It was alleged that the document showed that Labour had overseen a deliberate open-door ­policy on immigration to boost multi-culturalism.



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Voting trends indicate that migrants and their descendants are much more likely to vote Labour.

The existence of the draft policy paper, which was drawn up by a Cabinet Office think tank and a Home Office research unit, was disclosed last year by Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett.

He alleged at the time that the sharp increase in immigration over the past 10 years was partly due to a “driving political purpose: that mass immigration was the way that the Government was going to make the UK truly multi-cultural”.

However, the full document was made public only yesterday following a Freedom of Information request by Migrationwatch, a pressure group. A version of the paper was published in 2001, but most of the references to “social objectives” had been removed. In the executive summary alone, six out of eight uses of the phrase were deleted.

Labour has overseen an unprecedented rise in immigration, which has led to a rise of about three million in the UK population since 1997. Until recently, it accused opponents who called for tougher controls of playing the “race card”. Labour was forced to change its rhetoric amid concerns that the economic and social reality of immigration had alienated voters in its heartlands.

Gordon Brown pledged to secure “British jobs for British workers” as the recession led to a rise in unemployment and, just four months ago, he was accused of a U-turn when he insisted that it was “not racist” to discuss the issue.

The document released yesterday suggested that Labour originally pursued a different direction. It was published under the title “Migration: an economic and social analysis” but the removal of significant extracts suggested that officials or ministers were nervous over references to “social objectives”.

The original paper called for the need of a new framework for thinking about migration policy but the concluding phrase — “if we are to maximise the contribution of migration to the Government’s economic and social objectives” — was edited out.

Another deleted phrase suggested that it was “correct that the Government has both economic and social objectives for migration policy”.

Sir Andrew Green, the chairman of Migrationwatch, said the document showed that Mr Neather, who claimed ministers wanted to radically change the country and “rub the Right’s nose in diversity”, had been correct in his account of Labour’s immigration policy.

“Labour had a political agenda which they sought to conceal for initiating mass immigration to Britain,“ he said. “Why else would they be so anxious to remove any mention of social aspects?

“Only now that their working-class supporters are deserting them in droves have they started to talk about restricting immigration.”

Damian Green, the shadow immigration minister, accused the Government of having a secret policy. “This shows that Labour’s open-door immigration policy was deliberate, and ministers should apologise,” he said. “This makes it all the more important that there is a proper independent inquiry in the origins of this policy and whether ministers have been deceiving people.”

Jack Straw, who was home secretary when the paper was drawn up, has adamantly denied any secret plot and insisted that he had been tough on immigration.

Phil Woolas, the Immigration Minister, said the policy changes introduced in the 1997-2001 Parliament toughened immigration rules. “The reports confirm there is no evidence to back the idea there was an open-door policy,” he said. “The Government was criticised at the time for tightening the policy.”

Alan Johnson, the Home Secretary, will announce today moves to make it harder to earn citizens
(Edited by dave3974)
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: lol Dave you have just repeat what I already posted " Over 3 million immigrants have arrived since 1997" and not 7 million as you claimed previously.
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mnjgiwgie
(Post deleted by staff 11 years ago)
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