American Election soloturtle: For something to work for more than four years that only f*cks us up worse than we were before. I was voting to follow Obama and the Democrats for another few years. I feel like the Republicans, who - under George W. Bush - got us into 2 pointless wars, drove the economy and all hope of oversight and regulation into the ground, and foreclosed on a butt-load of houses, were a bad choice. The Republicans opposed EVERYTHING Mr. Obama ever tried to do. They ground all progress and improvement to a halt. They outright lied to people and people believed it. I almost feel ashamed of living in a country of this many bone-headed, slow-witted people. Obama was dragging us (kicking and screaming) into a world of Medical Care that everyone in most other countires already have. It may not have been a perfect plan, based on what it was completely intended to do, but it would have been a start. It would have been a stepping stone in the direction we must go as a country. As a society of human beings. I can't explain it, PTB.... I rarely understand it myself.  chronology: soloturtle. Don't give up. There were days when Jimmy Hoffa would go home to his family covered in blood after fighting scabs on the Picket Line. It looked hopeless at times. But in the 1970s The Teamsters signed one of the best National Trucking Wage contracts in the world. Every night before his family went to bed, Jimmy would ask his family to always think about American workers, what they did not have, and what they were struggling for.  davidk14: . Soloturtle said: For something to work for more than four years that only f*cks us up worse than we were before. I was voting to follow Obama and the Democrats for another few years. Davidk responds: FACT - Obama came in to “power” with a landslide of US citizen support. FACT - After just two years, the majority of Obama congressmen who supported him were voted out of office by the same Americans who voted him into “power”. FACT - This turnover during this election cycle was the worst loss “democrats” have experienced since the 1930’s. WHY? Because Obama’s ultra liberal progressive agenda is not what Americans thought was the “Hope and Change” it was going to be. The vast majority of Americans do not want a “nanny” state where the government controls their personal liberty and the American people also did not think Obama was going to add $5 Trillion dollars of debt in less than two years in office. Soloturtle said: I feel like the Republicans, who - under George W. Bush - got us into 2 pointless wars, drove the economy and all hope of oversight and regulation into the ground, and foreclosed on a butt-load of houses, were a bad choice. Davidk responds: Pointless wars depend on what you consider a response to a radical extremist fundamentalist Islamist declaration of war against the US and Western civilization. Were there mistakes, sure but when a line is drawn in the sand, you either respond or you hide your head in the sand. You would rather hide your head in the sand and call the US the bad guy. I would rather face reality and fight the evil of the world instead of surrender to it as you think we should. Soloturtle said: The Republicans opposed EVERYTHING Mr. Obama ever tried to do. They ground all progress and improvement to a halt. They outright lied to people and people believed it. Davidk responds: The republicans opposed everything Obama tried to do because everything he tried to do was against the fabric of American culture. Everyone knows the house and senate were both democratically contolled and could do whatever they wanted. So don't believe Republicans "ground all progress" to a halt. The congress passed everything Obama wanted...and that's a fact. 1) He forced through a $780 billion dollar program to jump start the economy which did not work. Just to put that number in perspective, that is more money than the entire eight years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Did the close to $1 trillion dollar work? Not in the least. He promised the package would have unemployment under 8% and the national average is hovering close to 10% and in many areas of the country, well over 16%. 2) He forced through a Healthcare program that the democrats did not even read before voting on it. Nancy Pelosi was asked a question about the Healthcare program and her response was, “We’ll know what’s in it once we pass it”. That is irresponsible and unforgiveable. . davidk14: Soloturtle said: I almost feel ashamed of living in a country of this many bone-headed, slow-witted people. Davidk responds: Perhaps you should pack up your belongings and move to an Islamic country. I’m sure you would be happier surrounded by those that think just like you. As I stated before, the same “Americans” that voted Obama and his crew into power found out the truth about his ultra liberal progressive policies and voted those who supported these reckless programs, voted them out just as fast. The American public is not stupid. Obama’s approval went from a high in the 60’s to a low in the 30’s. Facts are facts. Soloturtle said: Obama was dragging us (kicking and screaming) into a world of Medical Care that everyone in most other countires already have. It may not have been a perfect plan, based on what it was completely intended to do, but it would have been a start. It would have been a stepping stone in the direction we must go as a country. As a society of human beings. Davidk responds: The American people are not children and do not want to be “dragged” anywhere. The Healthcare program was written before he was elected and he knew exactly what he was doing when it was rammed through the congress. However, there are there good things in the Healthcare package and most reasonable Americans agree. However, the cost of the program far exceeds any sort of revenues to keep it going. The program needs to be reviewed and adjusted so as not to bankrupt us. Even the UK, Germany, Greece and others in Europe are feeling the ramifications of “nanny state” government social programs and are adjusting their programs accordingly. Unfortunately, many of those folks are rioting in the streets because they feel the government “owes them”. Soloturtle said: I can't explain it, PTB.... I rarely understand it myself. Davidk responds: Please, when and if you respond, whether you believe it or not, please take into account, the same folks that voted Obama and his crew into power, sent a huge message to liberal progressives like himself with the Nov 2nd voting results that they, the average US citizen, were very unhappy with the direction he was leading all of us in. And Chrono, only you would equate Hoffa, a man who believed in and used violence for change, to Obama. Go to this site to learn about Jimmy Hoffa...He's not the hero you portray him to be. http://www.carpenoctem.tv/mafia/hoffa.html . Wampum6: I usually don't like long posts, but this one of yours, David, makes many interesting and valid considerations. Many people in the USA are unable to grasp the concepts, but many have begun to understand, too! Thanks for taking the time and making the effort! And, although NOT an epitome of virtue, Jimmy Hoffa was certainly a master of dishonesty and treachery!  xanderiley: People were upset that things weren't whatever normal passes for when you're running two wars, and Wall Street's screwed over the economy after years of non-oversight. Unhappy people vote out incumbents. Didn't matter if they had a direct hand in it -- people wanted heads to roll, and the Republican Fear Machine blew long, windy and stupid. The Democrats best defense was, "Hey, we're ineffectual, but at least we're not Republicans." And out came the cutlery on Election Day. And now, it gets worse. davidk14: . Xanderiley said: And now, it gets worse. David responds: Perhaps. However, I think it is a little different this time. The new House Majority Leader John Boehner said November 3rd… The republicans know the landslide victory on Nov. 2nd was about the failures of the Obama administration and nothing to do with republicans per say. Now we'll see if what the majority leader said at this news conference will come true or not. Oh....and regarding people voting out incumbents....Not since 1936 has there been a turnover in congress like a few nights ago. Yes, the American public was really, really pissed off. . chronology: Mr David, true Jimmy Hoffa is not the Hero I make him out to be, Jimmy is far greater a hero. As for him and his Brother Teamsters using violence, well when truck loads of Union Busting scum tried to beat the crap out of them, they would defend them selves. You make me laugh you do Mr David, you really make me laugh. American working people are being ground into the floor because of people like you. If Jimmy and his Brothers were on the floor being kicked to death, you would say; 'typical, Teamsters causing trouble again'. davidk14: . Chrono, Hoffa was convicted of jury tampering, attempted bribery, and fraud in 1964 and was imprisoned in 1967, sentenced to 13 years, after exhausting the appeal process. How could you possibly support a criminal like him with huge connections with organized crime (the mob) which was proved to be intertwined with the unions? . chronology: Mr David. Jimmy (I call him this because he asked people who supported him to use that name), was subjected to intense round the clock vindictive investigation by the 'In'Justice Department of the U.S. {not to be confused with the Justice Department}. All they could find was a few irregularities that they blew out of all proportion. He was a good man, a loyal American who fought with his fists for his fellow Americans on the Picket Line. David, you have made it crystal clear you care nothing if your fellow Americans go to bed hungry, are treated fairly at work, earn a living wage, Jimmy and his fellow Teamsters do care. David, if you had one tenth of the passion for your own country that you have for Israel, you would join the Teamsters Local tomorrow. davidk14: . Chrono, Perhaps you should or would like to reassess your position... From the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation: In 1986, the President’s Council on Organized Crime reported that five major unions—including the Teamsters and the Laborers International Union of North America—were dominated by organized crime. In the early 1980s, former Gambino Family Boss Paul Castellano was overheard saying, “Our job is to run the unions.” Labor racketeering has become one of La Cosa Nostra’s fundamental sources of profit, national power, and influence. FBI investigations over the years have clearly demonstrated that labor racketeering costs the American public millions of dollars each year through increased labor costs that are eventually passed on to consumers. Labor unions provide a rich source for organized criminal groups to exploit: their pension, welfare, and health funds. There are approximately 75,000 union locals in the U.S., and many of them maintain their own benefit funds. In the mid-1980s, the Teamsters controlled more than 1,000 funds with total assets of more than $9 billion. Labor racketeers attempt to control health, welfare, and pension plans by offering “sweetheart” contracts, peaceful labor relations, and relaxed work rules to companies, or by rigging union elections. Labor law violations occur primarily in large cities with both a strong industrial base and strong labor unions, like New York, Buffalo, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, and Philadelphia. These cities also have a large presence of organized crime figures. The Teamsters are the best example of how efficiently the civil RICO process can be used. For decades, the Teamsters has been substantially controlled by La Cosa Nostra. In recent years, four of eight Teamster presidents were indicted, yet the union continued to be controlled by organized crime elements. The government has been fairly successful at removing the extensive criminal influence from this 1.4 million-member union by using the civil process. We work closely with the Office of Labor Racketeering in the Department of Labor and with the U.S. Attorneys' offices in investigating violations of labor law. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/organizedcrime/italian_mafia .  Malobear: For what it matters Chrono, I generally like your post and do agree with most of what you say. Unions are something I don't really care about. You want a fine example, look at the Autos Union. These people positioned themselves right out of competition with the rest of the world. Look at how many bailouts the car companies have had. Any other company would've been long gone. No Unions davidk14: . Chrono said: David, you have made it crystal clear you care nothing if your fellow Americans go to bed hungry, David responds: Perhaps you are unaware that I have gone to bed hungry as well as my children many years ago so I do care about those that go to bed hungry…I’ve been there. Chrono said: David, you have made it crystal clear you care nothing if your fellow Americans are treated fairly at work David responds: Unfortunately you probably never had a good employer. I do care tremendously how people are treated by their employers since I have employed thousands and have a record of condemning those that hire illegal’s to fill jobs that Americans want….I’ve been there. Chrono said: David, you have made it crystal clear you care nothing if your fellow Americans earn a living wage, David responds: I do care about wages since I started off earning minimum wage and understand exactly what a minimum wage represents….I’ve been there. However, when we did go to bed hungry, I got up the next day and worked harder and smarter to advance myself so to afford more food, a better home, and secure higher education for my children. When I did see Americans getting treated unfairly, I stood up and supported their dissatisfactions and rooted for them to better themselves to get more education to be able to compete in the job market. And when I earned that minimum wage I asked myself, how I can make more money. I solved all these issues by myself without the interference of unions or government. i have never had welfare of used unemployment issurance. I raised myself up by my bootstraps and took responsibility for my successes as well as my failures. This is called….holding yourself accountable for your own life….it’s called liberty. I raised my children this way and they are educated and work meaningful jobs. They never asked for anything…they earned it. If I practice what I preach and expect my children to be accountable for their actions, then there is no reason to not expect others to be held accountable for their actions as well. So don’t give me a song and dance about those poor, poor, souls who demand to be taken care of. That is what liberty is about. There are plenty of support vehicles available for those who are disabled physically and mentally to receive benefits of government and if more is needed, there are numberous private organizations that offer help. The rest, let them turn off their TV’s and get off their butts and quit complaining. Chrono said: Jimmy and his fellow Teamsters do care. David responds: They only cared about themselves and how much money and power they could attain. Period. Chrono said: David, if you had one tenth of the passion for your own country that you have for Israel, you would join the Teamsters Local tomorrow. David said: Of course, once you read my last post, you realized what a stupid and irresponsible comment you just made. I accept your apology. . xanderiley: solo: In full agreement. Perhaps Rod will add code which will allow blocking of obnoxious folks similar to the chatrooms so they and the crap they fling might be made invisible and intangible to those with better things to do. Outbackjack: The U.S needs a proportional voting system.Its a rigged two party dictatorship which provides very little chance of an alternative if voters are unsatisfied. As for Jimmy Hoffa.Yes he did have some very dodgy and dubious friends but did a lot for the trade union movement in the U.S. We had a man like him over here called Norman Gallagher,the head of the Builders labourers Federation (BLF). They persecuted him and threw him in jail but he still fought on. Employers have their own unions (Chamber of commerce,minerals) and an army of lawyers to represent their interests. So why shouldnt the workers? davidk14: . Outback, The American two party system in the last voting cycle were placed into shock with the grass roots Tea Party candidates who did pretty well. About 50% of them were elected into the House of Representatives exactly because of the discontent of the public with the two party system. We’ll have to wait and see if the Tea Party has any teeth. You make an interest point regarding business having their support mechanism. Unions sometimes do have a place when employees have concerns about pay, benefits and job descriptions when compared to similar occupations. One of the issues I have with unions is that they do not have the right to dictate how a company should be operated. . Outbackjack: You know my opinion on the Tea Party.I believe that they are a bunch of crazed lunatics.I assume that none of the tea party candidates are from the Democrats? Ultimately the Tea party will be swallowed up by the Republican party and the Republicans will start using their policies.The same thing happened here when we had the ultra right wing fanatics of One Nation.The Liberal(conservative) party of Australia swallowed them as it suited them to have someone else taking on the poisoned chalice first. Unions have a huge right to say how a business is run because if they didnt then we would have 11 year olds working in coal mines and many other unsafe practices still being carried out. davidk14: Outback said: You know my opinion on the Tea Party.I believe that they are a bunch of crazed lunatics Davids response: The agenda for the Tea Party is based on a Contract from America. The Contract from America was the idea of Houston-based lawyer, Ryan Hecker. He stated that he developed the concept of creating a grassroots call for reform prior to the April 15, 2009 Tax Day Tea Party rallies. Hecker told the New York Times, "Hundreds of thousands of people voted for their favorite principles online to create the Contract as an open-sourced platform for the Tea Party movement. The agenda had the imprint of everyday citizens every step of the way (in the online voting process)." Hecker said the Republicans’ 1994 Contract with America represented the nation’s last intellectual economic conservative movement, but the new list, he said, was “created from the bottom up. It was not crafted in Washington with the help of pollsters.” From the original 1,000 ideas which were submitted, Hecker reduced it to 21 based on a series of surveys and meetings with grassroots activists organized by the FreedomWorks, an organization led by former House Majority Leader Dick Armey and Matt Kibbe that has established close ties with many Tea Party activists around the country. After releasing the 21 ideas at CPAC on February 18, 2010, a final online vote was held to narrow the 21 ideas down to the final 10 to be included in the Contract from America. Over two months, 454,331 votes were cast. The resulting document, including the vote percentages for the statements, was posted online on April 12, 2010. The Contract lists 10 agenda items that it encourages congressional candidates to follow:[91][92] 1. Identify constitutionality of every new law: Require each bill to identify the specific provision of the U.S. Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does. (82.03%) 2. Reject emissions trading: Stop the "cap and trade" administrative approach used to control carbon dioxide emissions by providing economic incentives for achieving reductions in the emissions of carbon dioxide. (72.20%) 3. Demand a balanced federal budget: Begin the Constitutional amendment process to require a balanced budget with a two-thirds majority needed for any tax modification. (69.69%) 4. Simplify the tax system: Adopt a simple and fair single-rate tax system by scrapping the Internal Revenue Code and replacing it with one that is no longer than 4,543 words – the length of the original Constitution. (64.9%) 5. Audit federal government agencies for constitutionality: Create a Blue Ribbon taskforce that engages in an audit of federal agencies and programs, assessing their Constitutionality, and identifying duplication, waste, ineffectiveness, and agencies and programs better left for the states or local authorities. (63.37%) 6. Limit annual growth in federal spending: Impose a statutory cap limiting the annual growth in total federal spending to the sum of the inflation rate plus the percentage of population growth. (56.57%) 7. Repeal the healthcare legislation passed on March 23, 2010: Work towards the repudiating the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. (56.39%) 8. Pass an 'All-of-the-Above' Energy Policy: Authorize the exploration of additional energy reserves to reduce American dependence on foreign energy sources and reduce regulatory barriers to all other forms of energy creation. (55.5%) 9. Reduce Earmarks: Place a moratorium on all earmarks until the budget is balanced, and then require a 2/3 majority to pass any earmark. (55.47%) 10. Reduce Taxes: Permanently repeal all recent tax increases, and extend current temporary reductions in income tax, capital gains tax and estate taxes, currently scheduled to end in 2011. (53.38%) This sounds like lunatics to you? *******-*******-*******-*******-*******-*******--- davidk14: Outback said: Unions have a huge right to say how a business is run because if they didnt then we would have 11 year olds working in coal mines and many other unsafe practices still being carried out. David responds: Maybe in your country this would happen or happens but here in the US, there are child labor laws which cover the employment of individuals of all ages. Unions have no say. It’s the law. There are also numerous federal, state and local laws in place here in the US that cover all employees no matter what the job, what the age, gender, race or religion. Here are a just a few of these laws that protect all workers in America: • The Civil Service Reform Act of 1978 (CSRA) • The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) • Executive Order 11246 • Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 • Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA ) • Title III of the ADA • The Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) • The Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 (OSHA) • Section 503 of the Rehabilitation Act • Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act • Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act • The Social Security Act • The Fair Labor Standards Act • Workers Compensation Law • The Civil Service Reform Act Of 1978 (CSRA) • The Immigration Reform And Control Act Of 1986 (IRCA) • Executive Order 11246 • Title VI Of The Civil Rights Act Of 1964 • Title II Of The Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA) • Title III Of The ADA • The Family And Medical Leave Act (FMLA) • The Occupational Safety And Health Act Of 1970 (OSHA) • Section 503 Of The Rehabilitation Act • Section 504 Of The Rehabilitation Act • Section 508 Of The Rehabilitation Act • The Social Security Act • The Fair Labor Standards Act • Workers Compensation Regarding the number of Union members in the US workplace, in 2009, the union membership rate—the percent of wage and salary workers who were members of a union—was 12.3 per the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. The number of wage and salary workers belonging to unions declined by 771,000 to 15.3 million. Some highlights from the 2009 data are: • More public sector employees (7.9 million) belonged to a union than did private sector employees (7.4 million), despite there being 5 times more wage and salary workers in the private sector. • Workers in education, training, and library occupations had the highest unionization rate at 38.1 percent. • Black workers were more likely to be union members than were white, Asian, or Hispanic workers. • Among states, New York had the highest union membership rate (25.2 percent) and North Carolina had the lowest rate (3.1 percent). Local government workers had the highest union membership rate, 43.3 percent. Of all working Americans, only 12.3% are union members. If businesses in America are so messed up, this percentage would be much, much higher. . chronology: Well Mr David, 'The Mafia run Unions'. If a Union was successful they used to say it was full of 'communists', now they say it is 'Organised Crime dominated'. Do you honestly expect people like Fox News to report fairly on Unions? An organization that gets it's income from Big Business advertisements is going to report fairly on Unions negotiating with those Businesses? give me a break. Jimmy Hoffa was a hard working, clean living, better man than I could ever to be, no insult, but I suspect he was a better man than you. He took punches in the face for American families struggling to better their lot, so he may have dealt with people with 'rough edges'. I guy I used to work near ran a Cannabis factory it turned out, (I know nothing about any drug factory by the way), one of his workers was murdered and dumped in a Canal. I used to wave 'hello' to these Guys most days as they came to work, does that make me a 'friend of Organized Crime'? I don't think so, I never even knew their names. I suspect Jimmy knew little about many of the 'Gangsters' he met in his work. There was a huge Hydroponics Cannabis Farm less than a hundred yards from where I worked every day, I knew, and know nothing about that Farm, or the Chines Gangsters who ran it. Mr Outback, if you like I can Post a picture the Police took of the Farm, it is really funny, Police Officers are stood among huge Cannibis Plants. davidk14: . Chrono said: Well Mr David, 'The Mafia run Unions'. If a Union was successful they used to say it was full of 'communists', now they say it is 'Organised Crime dominated'. Do you honestly expect people like Fox News to report fairly on Unions? David responds: Chrono, dear Chrono…I did not reference FOX News nor do I ever quote FOX News because I know anything that they say according to you is nonsense. I learned that long, long ago. My reference material regarding the illegal activities of organized crime and the Unions are well documented and from the FBI….not FOX News. . Malobear: Interesting post from the Washington Examiner: Employees of casino giant Harrah’s may have been pushed by executives to vote early in order to help Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid win his tough re-election campaign against Republican Sharron Angle according to emails leaked to the press. If true, this would violate Federal Election law, as coordinating “Get Out The Vote” efforts cannot be coordinated with a political candidate. The Federal Election Commission prohibits coordination between companies, unions, and candidates for Get Out The Vote efforts: No Coordination Registration and GOTV drives beyond the restricted class cannot be coordinated with any candidate or any political party. 109.21 and 114.4(d)(2). According to Elizabeth Crum at National Review, a Reid staffer sent an email to Harrah’s top lobbyist Jan Jones, who in turn distributed the email to executives — offering any help possible to get out the vote for Reid. Upon learning that mid-level supervisors are not “cooperating with and listening to upper management,” the Reid staffer even goes so far as to suggest that Harrah’s execs “put a headlock on your supervisors to get them to follow through.” In her email to management, Harrah’s Batjer requested of her colleagues to “PLEASE do whatever we need” to communicate to company supervisors that there is “NOTHING more important than to get employees out to vote.” She even issued an express endorsement. “Waking up to the defeat of Harry Reid Nov. 3 will be devastating for our industry’s future,” Batjer wrote. On Friday, Western Regional President Tom Jenkin sent out a follow-up email showing a total vote count for Harrah’s properties along with the percentages of employees who had voted at each property. Attached to the email was a spreadsheet showing employee names and at which property they worked. Supervisors were asked to fill in codes explaining why their employees had not yet voted. That’s right: Companies are passing around a spreadsheet of who did and did not vote, and coordinating with Reid staffers. The FEC’s guide for corporations and unions also states that the mid-level supervisors and regular employees that Harrah’s is attempting to get to vote for Reid are outside the restricted class and thus cannot be responsible for coordinating transportation to polls. Here’s the language: Express Advocacy Corporations and labor organizations may conduct voter registration and get-out-the-vote (GOTV) drives urging the restricted class to register with a particular party or to vote for a particular candidate. 114.3(c)(4). Transportation The corporation or labor organization may provide transportation to the place of registration or to the polls but cannot condition that service on support of a particular candidate or party. 114.3(c)(4). Emails from Reid’s campaign would likely qualify as coordination. chronology: Molo. I have never understood Australians and Americans tollerence of Gambling in the way it is operated in those two countries. Gambling does more harm than Drugs and Alcohol. I know people who spend every spare dime they have on slot machines. Fair enough they are not in debt, but have not a nickle to their name thanks to 'one armed bandits'. In my work contract, if I am ever found to have gammbled in any way, I am instantly dismissed, it is viewed as on the same level as drug abuse. | Politics Chat Room 39 People Chatting Similar Conversations |
