Israel plans 1,300 settler homes (Page 3) davidk14: . Chrono said: David, you constantly defend the indefensible. 'Israel gave the Palestinians back Gaza', what Bullsh*t. David responds: Israel evacuated the Gaza strip in 2005 that they had won in the war with Egypt in 1967. That is not bullsh*t. That is the factual, undeniable fact and truth. When Israel evacuating the Gaza strip, they left the Gaza strip to the Palestinian Authority as a good will gesture…land for peace, trying to “kick start” the Oslo Accords (2000). When Hamas violently overthrew the Palestinian Authority in Gaza, Hamas “created” their own prison. Don’t you dare blame Israel for Hamas’s murderous removal of the Palestinian Authority. Hundreds if not thousands of Palestinians died during this unlawful overthrow of “their” government. Chrono said: A Jewish settler in Gaza who was dragged out of her home by her hair by the IDF has nothing but contempt for 'Gaza handback'. She says; 'they threw us out of our homes and gave back Gaza to the Palestinians. David responds: The Israeli government did the hard work and evacuated 21 settlements and thousands of Jews from Gaza and yes, it was a very emotional and difficult thing to do but in the name of peace, the Israeli government removed all Jewish settlers from Gaza. By doing this, the Israeli government proved to the world that they, the Israeli government, accomplished the complete evacuation of Israeli settlers from Gaza in the name of peace. Chrono said: They then turned Gaza into a Prison'. David responds: And again, Israel did not turn the Gaza into a prison, Hamas did so by attacking Israel and by their own hand state that Israel and the Jews that Hamas, supported by Iran, will use genocidal to remove Israeli’s from the Middle East. Chrono said: It is like me giving you an automobile, then putting bollards all around the car so it cannot move an inch. And then coming back with a sledgehammer and smashing the car to pieces, David, stop being so cruel and heartless. David said: Chrono, it’s obvious that you don’t know what you are talking about. Perhaps it’s more like this: I own 2 pieces of land next to each other. You live on one parcel and I live on another parcel. I have been responsible for your infrastructure and safety. We haven’t been friends and it’s time to prove that I want to have a peaceful existence living next to you. I decide that it’s time that you own the land and to manage it according to the agreements under the Palestinian Authority. I give you the land to do with what you want. I completely evacuate all my folks from the land. The next thing I know, there is a civil war on your land and an entity takes control which vows the complete annihilation and murder of the people living on my land as well as wanting to take over all of my land as well. You attack me and my people with rockets from your new “land” and try to infiltrate onto “my” land. You even come onto my land and kidnap one of my people. You try almost every day to kill me. You’re not happy with the land I gave you (Gaza) and now you want “my” land (Israel) as well. Well….you can’t have it. .  chronology: David. I could ask you if you have no shame, no conscience, no humanity. But your Posts have already answered that. davidk14: . Chrono, It's obvious that you just don't read my posts. In my last post, what exactly is your beef? . chronology: David you consistently and unreservedly support and apologise for the aggressive elements in Israel. To be fair you are no different from most Americans, who are as indifferent and callous towards Palestinians as you are. When you are not apologising for aggressive Israeli's (I do not include all Jews in that statement). You sensationalise the threat from Palestinians. How the hell do the young mums of Gaza queuing for food with their children, or standing in line for Gasoline, or waiting for a bus threaten to 'annihilate' Israel? Yet they are the ones suffering from these sanctions. You don't seem to understand David, you or most Americans who support the aggressive treatment of Palestinians, that those folks have as much right to be treated with respect like everyone else. Just like Jewish settlers on Gaza's boarder have.  Moony_xo: Lol chronology don't bother with people like him. They'll never admit that Israel has done anything wrong. David, you didn't answer me. You want Palestinians to recognize a Jewish state without being shown borders OR removing settlements? that's very smooth. I want I want I want with no offers in return. Israel wants peace? Yeah sure, it wants a 'piece' of Ramallah, a 'piece' of Jenin, a 'piece' of Hebron, a 'piece' of Jericho, a 'piece of Nablus' and a 'piece' of Gaza. davidk14: . Chrono said: You sensationalise the threat from Palestinians. How the hell do the young mums of Gaza queuing for food with their children, or standing in line for Gasoline, or waiting for a bus threaten to 'annihilate' Israel? David responds: As I have stated before, what you call “sensationalizing the threat from Palestinians”, the following is directly from the current Hamas Charter…. "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors." "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him…” Those who support Hamas, also support in the Hamas Charter quotes from Hassan Al-Banna, a Nazi sympathizer who founded the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. There is no doubt that the Hamas views itself as a part of the Muslim Brotherhood and an ideological heir of al Banna. The Muslim Brotherhood spawned a number of radical Islamist movements including Al-Qaeda. The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the wings of Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine. Muslim Brotherhood Movement is a universal organization which constitutes the largest Islamic movement in modern times. It is characterized by its deep understanding, accurate comprehension and its complete embrace of all Islamic concepts of all aspects of life, culture, creed, politics, economics, education, society, justice and judgment, the spreading of Islam, education, art, information, science of the occult and conversion to Islam.” This has nothing to do with mothers feeding their children. This has to do with an ideology which supports and condones the genocide of the Jewish people. Chrono said: “…those folks have as much right to be treated with respect like everyone else. Just like Jewish settlers on Gaza's boarder have. David responds: The following is from Israel’s Constitution… The State of Israel is a democratic State, which respects human rights in the spirit of the Jewish heritage s principles of freedom, justice, integrity, and peace.” “The human rights recognized in this constitution are based on the recognition that every human being is created in the [divine] image and is endowed with freedom and dignity.” The Declaration of Independence determined that the State of Israel will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sw$; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; and it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions. In the very midst of the onslaught launched against it, the State of Israel extended its hand to those who sought its destruction, in an offer of peace and good neighborliness The Declaration of Independence mandated the adoption of a Constitution. The Constituent Assembly – being the First Knesset – decided that, as a temporary arrangement, the Knesset would adopt Basic Laws. Notice the difference in concepts? The Hamas Charter offers only violence and death. You have sympathy for the Palestinians “people” as I do, yet you refuse to hold those in power in Gaza accountable for their genocidal tendencies. Hamas must denounce their charter, rejoin the PA and sit down at the table and declare….peace. Then the actual debate over land can be truly discussed. . davidk14: . Moon said: David, you didn't answer me. You want Palestinians to recognize a Jewish state without being shown borders OR removing settlements? that's very smooth. I want I want I want with no offers in return. David responds: First and utmost…Israel first wants it’s “existence” recognized, not its borders. Mood said: Israel wants peace? Yeah sure, it wants a 'piece' of Ramallah, a 'piece' of Jenin, a 'piece' of Hebron, a 'piece' of Jericho, a 'piece of Nablus' and a 'piece' of Gaza. David responds: If Israel wanted a piece of Gaza, it would not have left Gaza. Second, they would not have returned the Sinai to Egypt if they wanted land. They wanted peace with Egypt and returned the Sinai which has more land mass than Israel does. Israel has stated that when all is said and done, the Palestinians will have exactly the same land mass as the Jordanian West Bank and E. Jerusalem had before the 1967 war. Remember, the West Bank and E. Jerusalem were the property of Jordan before the 1967 war. Hate won’t do anything but foster more hate. Move towards peace and peace will come. . Moony_xo: Yeah, it wants it's existance recognized, what exactly does it want to be recognized on? If Palestinians say we recognize you as a Jewish state with no map involved that could just mean they're recognizing Israel and the occupied territories as a Jewish state. Israel has not stated that when all is said and done they will have the 1967 lands back, because you forget these disgusting things called settlements. And it's not hate, just cause i dont agree with you doesn't mean I hate chronology: David, you must be joking. 'Israel respects Human Rights'. Tell that to the Palestinian families who buried hundreds of dead children, little girls and boys slaughtered in the Blitzkrieg on Gaza last year. David, do you live on the same planet as the rest of us? David, I do not hate Israel or Jews. But the people running Israel at the moment kill people with the casual reflex of some one dipping a biscuit into a cup of coffee. No way is this acceptable in the modern world.  Outbackjack: "Your ideas are interesting. Perhaps we should give Texas back to Mexico since we won that land in war. We might as well give N. Mexico, Arizona and California back as well. And to the extreme, give all of the United States back to the Native Americans too." A lot of us here have been calling for a solution where Palestinians live in peace with Israelis.We are talking about the Gaza Strip,West Bank and East Jerusalem here not greater Israel.Thats all I am going to say and that pathetic comparison. "Your hate for the Jewish State of Israel is obvious and any factual evidence of historic relevance will not change your minds." Oh pull the old antisemetic card out why dont you? You have done this on countless occasions when you have such a crap argument.Go on take your ball and go home,you sook. I have been here for well over two years. How about providing some factual evidence from all my posts that I hate the Jewish State of Israel? "Where is it that I ever said I’m not interested in peace? When a child is having a temper tantrum, kicking and screaming on the floor, do you give the child what it wants or does the child need to earn it? The Palestinians need to earn peace. We want!!! We want!!! We want!!! Give me!!! Give me!!! Give me!!! You owe me!!! What? They want something, they need to earn it. Recognize the Jewish State of Israel. Until then, this Palestinian issue will never be resolved." So building more settlements in the West Bank is going to deliver peace? Maybe I should go along and build a bank of America in Pyong Yang or maybe open up a McDonalds in New Delhi because there is an abundance of cows in the streets.How about a Margaret Thatcher statue in Dublin? You talk about the spoilt child saying Give me!!! Give me!!! What about the radical Zionist terrorists who said Give me!!! Give me!!! and bombed the British out of Palestine. They said We want and they behaved like the spoilt child. Did they earn it? "What is a disgrace is how the terrorist government in Gaza, Hamas treats its own people. That’s what is disgraceful and you should be ashamed that you support this vicious and genocidal terrorist government." Thats very strange considering that many of the people who have served in the Israeli government including its leaders were terrorists. "Fact – Israel evacuates the Gaza to move the peace process along per the Oslo Accords. Hamas murders dozens of Palestinians to take control of Gaza. Hamas attacks Israel and fires “THOUSANDS OF ROCKETS” into Israel trying and succeeding to murder innocent Israeli women and children and you say nothing? You accuse Israel in defending itself? I’m absolutely sure no one wants "you" covering their backs if being attacked by a vicious terrorist organization." Is this how Israel defends itself: Two wrongs never make a right. "You want peace in the Middle East? Support the concept that Hamas and the rest of the Palestinians recognize the Jewish State of Israel. Then there will be peace. If you don’t support the concept of recognition of the Jewish State of Israel, you are no better than the murderous terrorist organizations looking to destroy Israel." Well as I have said a million times.Fatah did recognise Israel and guess what happened? Nothing. Sorry thats wrong. Israel built more settlements. "David responds: The Israeli government did the hard work and evacuated 21 settlements and thousands of Jews from Gaza and yes, it was a very emotional and difficult thing to do but in the name of peace, the Israeli government removed all Jewish settlers from Gaza. By doing this, the Israeli government proved to the world that they, the Israeli government, accomplished the complete evacuation of Israeli settlers from Gaza in the name of peace." So thats why they sought to build their Berli....errr I mean wall straight after that took more territory in the West Bank? Outbackjack: "David responds: And again, Israel did not turn the Gaza into a prison, Hamas did so by attacking Israel and by their own hand state that Israel and the Jews that Hamas, supported by Iran, will use genocidal to remove Israeli’s from the Middle East." So 1.8 million Palestinians receive collective punishment to pay for the sins of the few. Oh great idea........ "Those who support Hamas, also support in the Hamas Charter quotes from Hassan Al-Banna, a Nazi sympathizer who founded the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. There is no doubt that the Hamas views itself as a part of the Muslim Brotherhood and an ideological heir of al Banna. The Muslim Brotherhood spawned a number of radical Islamist movements including Al-Qaeda." Thats ridiculous. You are definetely going for the Guinness Book of records for the longest bow drawn in history. Thats like saying Chronology(a supporter of Britain) agrees with these laws in his Britain under their charter: Any person found breaking a boiled egg at the sharp end will be sentenced to 24 hours in the village stocks (enacted by Edward VI). A bed may not be hung out of a window. It is illegal for a lady to eat chocolates on a public conveyance. Any person found breaking a boiled egg at the sharp end will be sentenced to 24 hours in the village stocks (enacted by Edward VI). Theres even one here that makes you wish you lived in England: All English males over the age 14 are to carry out 2 or so hours of longbow practice a week supervised by the local clergy. As for the rest of your war mongering rant. Life is too short to bother........................... davidk14: Your one sided and unsupported comments do not support your assumptions. The following, unlike your rants, are supported with reference materials: The Hamas Charter (or Covenant), outlines the organization's position on many issues, and identifies Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine and declares its members to be Muslims who "fear God and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors." The charter states "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories, and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel. The charter also states that Hamas is humanistic and tolerant of other religions as long as they do not block Hamas's efforts. The Charter also asserts that through shrewd manipulation of imperial countries and secret societies, Zionists were behind a wide range of events and disasters going as far back in history as the French Revolution. Among the charter's controversial statements is the following: "The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews [and kill them]; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: Oh Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!” The document also quotes Islamic religious texts to provide justification for fighting against and killing the Jews of Israel. Presenting the Arab-Israeli conflict as an inherently irreconcilable struggle between Jews and Muslims, and Judaism and Islam, adding that the only way to engage in this struggle between "truth and falsehood" is through Islam and by means of jihad, until victory or martyrdom. The Charter adds that "renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion" of Islam. Reference Materials: "The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas)". MidEast Web. August 18, 1988. http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm. "Covenant of Hamas". http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818a.htm. Retrieved February 24, 2009. ^ The Palestinian Hamas By Shaul Mishal, Avraham Sela. Retrieved February 9, 2009. Article 31 of the Hamas Charter (1988) Yale Law School: The Avalon Project Anti-semitic motifs in the ideology of Hizballah and Hamas, Esther Webman, Project for the Study of Anti-Semitism, 1994. ISBN *******-*******-4 "Hamas Charter (1988)". Palestine Center. 1988. "The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim)." ^ "Hamas Covenant 1988: The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement". The Avalon Project: Documents in Law, History and Diplomacy. Yale Law School. August 18, 1988. http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp. Retrieved February 15, 2009. davidk14: ___________________________ According to a translation by Palestinian Media Watch, Fathi Hamad, a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council, stated on Al-Aqsa TV: “For the Palestinian people death became an industry, at which women excel and so do all people on this land: the elderly excel, the Jihad fighters excel, and the children excel." Accordingly (Palestinians) created a human shield of women, children, the elderly and the Jihad fighters against the Zionist bombing machine, as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: 'We desire death as you desire life'." In 2010, Hamas speaker Ahmad Bahr praised the virtues of martyrdom and Jihad, and said that 2.5 million black-eyed virgins were waiting in the Garden of Eden which could be entered only by prophets, by the righteous, and by martyrs. He continued by saying that nobody on Earth "will be able to confront the resistance, or to confront the mujahideen, those who worship Allah and seek martyrdom." Reference Materials: ^ "Hamas explains using civilians as human shields", Palestinian Media Watch, (December 28, 2008). ^ The Middle East Research Institute, Special Dispatch No.3227: Hamas PLC Speaker Ahmad Bahr: 2.5 Million Virgins Await the Prophets, the Righteous, and the Martyrs in a Single Palace in the Garden of Eden, September 13, 2010 _________________________ According to a November 2009 survey conducted by Haaretz, 57% of Israelis support the view of MK Shaul Mofaz of Kadima, that Israel should establish a dialogue with Hamas under certain conditions, for example, that Hamas renounces violence, recognizes Israel's right to exist as a Jewish nation, and loses its designation as a terrorist organization. Hamas responded to this by labeling it "Zionist vulgarity" and stating that they will never negotiate with or recognize their "enemy", the state of Israel. Reference Materials: ^ Haaretz poll: 57% of Israelis support plan to talk to Hamas. By Yossi Verter, Haaretz Correspondent. Accessed: November 14, 2009. This post helps supports my thoughts and previous posts. . Outbackjack: I dont know why you bother copying and pasting all this rubbish all the time and then have the gall to tell others that their posts are not based on fact. The only fact I see is that you are unable to think for yourself.They have a word for that and its called plagiarism. But anyhow dont let me distract you from your longbow practise. davidk14: . Outback said: I dont know why you bother copying and pasting all this rubbish all the time and then have the gall to tell others that their posts are not based on fact. David responds: Silly you. Rubbish? You got to be kidding! Is that the best response you have? Outback said: The only fact I see is that you are unable to think for yourself.They have a word for that and its called plagiarism. David responds: Plagiarism? You got to be kidding! Plagiarize \'pla-je-,riz: to steal and pass off the ideas or words of another as one's own : without crediting the source. FROM: Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary 9th ed, (Springfield, Ma: Merriam 1981, p. 870). You obviously did not know what the word meant. As always, I use reference materials and can as I did on the past post, identify my reference materials. You just don’t have any reasonable response so name calling becomes the only path you can travel…or should I say…want to travel. You cut and paste numerous articles on many threads yet you don’t consider that plagiarizing? Perhaps that's hypocritical of you? Get real. Regarding your “Thinking for yourself”: Think For Yourself Dr. Edward de Bono www.debonogroup.com Do the research. Look into the statements made by others. You'll be amazed at how many times you'll find lots of evidence to contradict the statements of others. Yet, these people spout this erroneous information and never question the accuracy or truth of what they're saying. Search for information to prove or disprove the statements made. Remember where you get the "evidence" from. Be aware that, just because you saw it in a book or on the internet, that alone does not make it the truth. Once you've found evidence, one way or the other, you can speak up about it. "Yes, you know after we talked last time, I was so interested that I looked that up. That's amazing, isn't it, hard to believe, but true!" Or conversely, you can say, "I know that sounds amazing, and I hate to burst the bubble because it's fun to believe that could be true, but I looked it up, and it looks like it isn't true. I feel bad to be the bearer of bad news, but I just don't think that's true. You can look at ____________ (wherever you found your disproving evidence) and see for yourself." When you're breaking the news that your friend is passing along a false tale, let them know in a humble and compassionate way - don't just come in crowing and congratulating yourself for debunking a myth. You may look smart to others for a minute, but to your friend, you look like a jerk." David said: Perhaps I need to practice my presentation. . chronology: David. As I told you before, you constantly drag up outdated and irrelevant statements by Palestinians. Remember too, that Palestinians are a people in shock. Their communities are devastated at times and their community and family structures fragmented. This gives rise to eccentric thinking. You can see this in the U.S. Just go to places devastated by Job losses and foreclosures and you will hear talk about the 'Zionist Occupation Government' and 'The New World Order'. Are Americans whack jobs? No, they are just confused and stressed out by what is happening to them, just like Palestinians, David, try and be more understanding. dave3974: until the palestinians abandon terror how can any negotiations take place , remember the borders were open until they started the campaign, it reamins a mystery how israel can be so patient. Any revisons of borders took place decades ago;should the uk give back gibraltar , should france give back german territory , what about the british territory in the usa , ---move on , the sate of israel could be a great asset to all in the area chronology: Personally I think the Palestinians made a mistake bringing Hamas into the Coalition Authority (or whatever it is). The Authorities in Washington have been criticised for cutting off Aid to Palestinian Public Works, but what else can Washington do? Hamas is Officially Described by most major Nations and International Organizations as a Terrorist Group. Why the hell did the Palestinians not ask Washington what they thought of the move before making the move? It would have saved the loss of a lot of money. As usual it is the young Palestinian Moms and their kids who will be hit by any cutbacks. dave3974: 1,300 that is pathetic , surely they can build more than that they have a housing shortage , why are their builders so slow davidk14: Well, people that agree with you just murdered 7 more Jews and injured dozens more. Your wish has come true.  Eaton Busche: Nothing has changed in that part of the world in a thousand years. To say this is illegal is false and can be argued from either side. That godforsaken piece of dirt has caused bloodshed since the beginning of time. I say blow it up and make another lake! chronology: dave3974. So you are saying Israel should build more homes on land they took in the 1967 war and continue to occupy illegally. The continued occupation of the West Bank does nothing for Israel or the people of Israel. As david14 has pointed out the 'ownership' of much of the patches of land in the West Bank is probably legally and lawfully owned by Jewish Landlords, but that does not allow the unlawful disregard with which Palestinians are subjected to in having their country developed without their permission. Why you have no respect for Palestinians or their Civil and Human Rights is a mystery. If you truly support Israel, try doing what many brave Israelis and Jews around the world are doing and demonstrate to have the Israeli Government enter meaningful negotiations with Palestinians. | Politics Chat Room 77 People Chatting Similar Conversations |
