DavidK (Page 5)

chronology: Fog. You seriously expect any one here on Wire to except your comment that a few hundred Palestinian supporters shouting to a street full of New Yorkers for an hour or so is equal to the daily Pro Israel attitude of U.S. Television, and Movies.

You call it 'Freedom of Speech'. So you and me are free to Post topics at each other here, while Rupert Murdock and his Pro Zionist Friends are distributing millions of Newspapers and Broadcasting Megawatts of T.V. from Space Orbiting Satellite to tens of millions of people around the world every hour of every day. I will keep a look out for Fox News demonstrations and Palestinian friendly T.V. Stations in the U.S. don't think I'll find any.

And Fog your comments about Palestinians being helped by various American Businesses would be laughable, if they were not so contemptible. So after American supplied F16s, are used to drop American Smart Bombs, guided by American supplied Radar, and Palestinians have buried their dead children, you expect Palestinians to talk up American water charity work in Israel? Some people here would find your comments here despicable Fog, especially when Israel was enforcing water rationing on Politicians in Occupied Territories to two hours supply a week, (at the same time Settlements next door had unlimited Water supply).

franklin1950: ditto for george soros and his agenda ,

chronology: Agenda's are seldom followed by individuals Franklin. During the Falkland War the P2 Masonic Order became well know in Europe. People tried to understand what P2 was, as it did not appear to be simply a Masonic Lodge dedicated to brotherliness and charity. It became generally accepted that P2 was really an attitude of mind mixed with a common self interest held by some prominent people. The same is true, perhaps, of the Pro Israel Lobby in the U.S. It is a lot of wealthy influential people with a common purpose and related financial investments. The cornerstone of this pool of interest is Israel. But somehow, it is difficult to see how the 'common purpose' of wealthy investors and landowners, fits in with the daily life of Jews and Palestinians. Only my P.O.V.

davidk14: .

Chrono,

You make it sound like it’s horrible to support a country of 7 million Jews. There are only 14 million Jews remaining on the planet. A madman not long ago tried to wipe Jews off the planet. He succeeded in using the act of genocide and murdered close to 7 million Jews. Jews aren’t spreading death, terror and violence around the world.

Perhaps you should consider redirecting your anger at the current madmen that would use genocide against the Jews once again. I think that would be more honorable.

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chronology: David, I am not an Anti-Semite, I have never said a single harsh word against a Jew in my life. But I will always speak out if Palestinians, or anyone else is being attacked, by Israel or anyone in a barbaric manner.

What disturbs me today, is that the Jew Baiters, who are almost always the most obnoxious people you can meet, are beginning to get public support as people are beginning to see Jews as murdering, sadistic, unfeeling brutes. Believe me David, this is starting to be Public perception of Israel and Jews, not in 'Eye Wash News' America, but in most countries with less prejudiced News Services.

davidk14: .

Throughout history, Jews have been blamed for anything and everything.

When they left Gaza in 2005, they were blamed for inviting the rocket attacks. When Hezbollah attacked from Lebanon, they were blamed for defending themselves. When Israel went to Uganda to rescue Jews, there was a UN resolution against the rescuing of Jews from certain death. There is even the UN Resolution 3379 stating that "Zionism is racism".

There were resolutions against Israel after they won the 1967 and 1973 wars. There were UN resolutions against Israel when they did not return the land that they had won during these wars. And when they did return the lands during peace negotiations, it was not enough. At the UN anti-Semitism is rampant and you and others say nothing.

Whenever there is turmoil especially in the Islamic world, Israel and the Jews are blamed.

There have been more resolutions in the UN against Israel than all other resolutions against any country in the world combined. You said in your last post that you are not an Anti-Semite, that you never said a single harsh word against a Jew in your life but that you will speak out if Palestinians or anyone else is being attacked, by Israel or anyone in a barbaric manner.

Perhaps you should condemn the barbaric attacks by Palestinians on Jews. After all, Hamas openly calls for genocide against Jews. Hezbollah openly calls for genocide against Jews. Yet you and others don’t say a word.

Does Israel have a policy of genocide for anyone anywhere? No.

You said that the public perception of Israel and Jews, not in 'Eye Wash News' America, but in most countries with less prejudiced News Services. I along with billions of others disagree with you completely. Eye wash news in America? The media in the US has the freest expression of free speech in the world and if you do not agree, you are a willing part of the prejudice.

Perhaps you are not anti-Semitic but you sure haven’t convinced me, not due to your heart, but due to your lack of information, awareness, comprehension, and most of all...wisdom.

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flashie: i have saudi born palestinian mates who's grandparents were told at gunpoint to get their shit and leave their homes. palestinians have had to eat rice from horse shit as theyve been so hungary.

forced at gunpoint to leave their homes and be treated like 2nd class citizens in saudi as refugees.

i asked one of my mates if its real jihad in palestine and he said yes, not in a cocky or zealous way morelike a sad humble way.

never before have i heard of a country like england just deciding that ppl miles away have to leave their homes and just give them to foreigners.

its disgusting.

flashie: how would americans feel or english people if saudi arabian gov just decided to make half of our country owned by kuwaiti muslims? at gunpoint? bulldoze your house down?


wtf?

chronology: David, how many times do I have to say this to you? J have never said, or done an unkind thing to or about Jewish people in my life. I have always defended Jews when the Conspiracy Whack Jobs blame them for 911, The Banking Crisis, JFK, WW1 and 2 and all the hate talk they make about Jews.

Perhaps I should explain better. 'Apartheid' is what Israel is described as practicing 'IN THE OCCUPIED PALASTINIAN TERRITORY, NOT IN ISRAEL'. The subjugation of the Palestinians is not simply by using the I.D.F. but by using Laws, Checkpoints, Exclusion from using certain Roads, This is Apartheid. David I have no problem with Zionism. If Jews want to believe they are special, chosen by God, should only marry other Jews, even think folks like me are scum, then so what? That is their privilege, it is a free world, BUT THEY DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO BEHAVE LIKE THAT IN PALASTINIAN TERRITORY TOWARDS PALASTINIANS. You could argue that America has Gated Communities, that separate themselves from the rest of the State. True, but those Gated Communities are not inside Mexico or Canada, they are inside America. You could argue that there are neighbourhoods in Phoenix, L.A. where Police Offices will stop you if you are walking there at night and ask for I.D. etc But they are American Police Officers inside America. If I was on my way to work and some Phoenix Police Officers asked for I.D. I would probably comment they were a long way from Phoenix, if I was in Phoenix, it would be just a routine check. David, PALASTINIANS ARE BEING STOPPED AND CHECKED INSIDE THEIR OWN COUNNTRY. I hope I explained myself now.

chronology: And David, your comments about American Media are as usual slannted. Does America have a Free Media? Yes. Are American Reporters the best in the World? Yes. In only one region of the world do those reporters give biased and distorted news coverage, Israel. Go onto YouTube and see how many people make their case for distorted American News reporting from Israel.

flashie: a racist god is the most ridiculous argument possible for gods existence.

davidk14: Chrono said:

David, PALASTINIANS ARE BEING STOPPED AND CHECKED INSIDE THEIR OWN COUNNTRY.

David responds:

Their own country? What country? The land they are on is Israeli land. Palestinians can’t decide whether to destroy Israel of negotiate with Israel.

You keep sidestepping and refuse to address fact and reality.

Let’s once again, review facts…

Prior to 1967, the West Bank and East Jerusalem were Jordanian territories, Gaza was Egyptian territory, and the Golan Heights was Syrian territory. Indisputable facts unless you’re a complete idiot.

Then, in 1967, Jordan, Egypt and Syria, invaded Israel with the intentions of using genocide to destroy the State of Israel. We all know what happened next. Israel kicked their butts. Israeli’s beat back the Syrians and took control of the Golan Heights. Israeli’s beat back the Jordanians and took control of E. Jerusalem and the West Bank. Israeli’s beat back the Egyptians and took control of the Sinai and Gaza. If they had succeeded, millions of Jews would have been murdered. However, they won the war… in six days. Some call it a miracle….many call it God’s will. Indisputable facts unless you are a complete idiot.

Now fast forward…

Israel signs a peace agreement with Jordan, the same people that tried to exterminate them. During this peace process, the Jordanians did not want the West Bank back or East Jerusalem. They abandoned East Jerusalem, the West Bank as well as the Palestinian problem to Israel. They did not give the land to the Palestinians. Why is that? Indisputable fact unless you are a complete idiot.

Israel signs a peace deal with Egypt. The same people that tried to exterminate them. During the peace negotiations, Egypt wanted the Sinai back and they got it back. However, Egypt did not want the Gaza back nor did they want the Palestinians. Why is that? Notice again, Egypt did not give the Gaza to the Palestinians. Indisputable fact unless you are a complete idiot.


And over the years, Israel has tried many times to entice Syria to trade a peace treaty for the return of the Golan Heights. But, so far, they refuse to since they don’t want a peace of any kind with Israel. Indisputable fact unless you are a complete idiot.

So now let’s fast forward to today…

We all saw the pictures of Arafat shaking hands with the President of Israel with Clinton when everyone thought a peace deal was a done deal since Israel gave in to 97% of what Arafat wanted. But no…within weeks if not days, the Second Intifada started when Yassir Arafat walked out on negotiations at the Camp David Summit in July 2000. Indisputable fact unless you are a complete idiot.

However, five years later, Israel completely evacuates from Gaza leaving Gaza “to the Palestinians” to help move the peace process forward. Land for peace. Indisputable fact unless you are a complete idiot.

What happens? The Palestinians have a civil war between those that want peace and those that don’t. Palestinians killing Palestinians. Indisputable fact unless you are a complete idiot.

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davidk14: .


What’t the problem? The Palestinian Authority in the West Bank wants to cut a deal with Israel and Hamas in Gaza want to completely destroy Israel. Indisputable fact unless you are a complete idiot.

The PA well knows Israel will never, ever, give East Jerusalem to the Palestinians. It is the capital of Israel.. Remember, it was never Palestinian. It was Jordanian land and Jordan “gave” it to Israel.

The PA well knows Israel will never, ever have a Palestinian “right of return” on Israeli land prior to 1967. Remember, it was never Palestinian and is now the legitimate State of Israel, a Jewish country.

Everyone knows, unless you are a complete idiot, the best deal that Abbas can get is the West Bank and the Gaza boundaries of 1967. Israel is even willing to abandon 80% of the settlements in the West Bank and give the Palestinians other Israeli land to make up for the 20% of existing settlements.

Israel has proved time and time again that they will trade land for peace. Another indisputable fact unless you are a complete idiot.

So you tell me, what indisputable facts do you have to prove the West Bank is their country? No song and dance, no smoke and mirrors, no misdirection, no disinformation, no sob stories…What indisputable facts do you have to prove the West Bank is their country?

________________________________


As I re-read my post and proof read, I realize that all this may be moot as a discussion.

The recent upheaval in Tunisia, Yemen, Jordan and Egypt, may blow up beyond anything anyone could imagine.

If the Muslim Brotherhood takes control and radical Islam takes hold in these countries, Israel once again will be in an active battle for their existence. There will be no peace between the Israeli’s and Palestinians because any Muslim that wants peace with Israel will be considered a friend of the Jews…

Ishaq:364 "Muslims, take not Jews and Christians as friends. Whoever protects them becomes one of them, they become diseased, and will earn a similar fate."


The Muslim Brotherhood's charter describes its goal as the re-establishment of the Islamic Caliphate - an empire stretching from Spain to Indonesia. Although it claims to be non-violent, its charter describes “dying in the way of Allah” as the group’s highest hope. Its most infamous alumnus is undoubtedly Ayman Al-Zawahiri, the number two leader of Al Qaida.

Another indisputable fact unless you are a complete idiot.

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chronology: David, off topic, but those Caves in Arizona I was talking about, was probably The Colossal Cave near Tuscon. It is a National Park I think. The sunset's and sunrises you Guys get over the Grand Canyon in Arizona must be awesome to see.

davidk14: .

Chrono,
I visited the caves a long time ago. They are beautiful. However I became claustrophobic and did not stay long.

Yes the sunsets and sunrises are beautiful anywhere in Arizona.

However, my favorite place for sunsets in just North of San Francisco at a place called Point Reyes National Seashore. If I had to choose one or two places to spend my last hours on earth, one would be there, an hour before sunset and one hour after sunset. My soul would be at peace.

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chronology: David, you are Psychic. Is that place in San Francisco near the Bridge? I was thinking back to some Hi Definition pictures I had seen of the Bridge at Dawn with the Fog rolling under the Bridge.San Francisco seems to be like Hamburg, it is a City of islands.

davidk14: Pointe Reyes is about 2 hours up the coast from San Francisco. I've attached two youtube video's...enjoy.

Outbackjack: David.

You still try and deny that the Palestinians are entitled to those small pieces of dirt called the West Bank and Gaza strip despite numerous U.N resolutions demanding Israel return to pre 1967 borders.

Theres your proof.

chronology: David. San Francisco is a really beautiful City. The Bridge is so Iconic of that magnificent Town. No wonder Alfred Hitchcock fell in love with the City and made so many Movies there. If I ever go there I will certainly take 'The Maltese Falcon' Tour, (yes I know John Ford made that Movie). David, you are a Chef, did you ever visit The Maltese Falcon Restaurant in San Francisco?.

davidk14: Chrono,

No I haven’t. However…during one of my many visits to San Francisco..(I also lived there once for 20 years)...

A few years ago, a few of my friends and fellow restaurateurs traveled to SF. We started one day at the Ferry Building with Oysters on the half shell, fresh out of the waters of Bodega Bay a few miles up the coast from SF. Outrageous! After polishing off dozens of those scrumptious shellfish, we walked to China Town.

One of our comrades, a very nice and educated Chinese Chef, took us to a Chinese Restaurant. This restaurant was by reservations only. The owners of the restaurant, a husband and wife team, did not speak English. To make reservations, you would call a phone number, leave your name and phone number, and a child, I assume their child, would call you back. The restaurant had 3 tables. The menu was set by the chef for that evening. Once they knew the six of us were coming, he would go into China Town and buy all the ingredients he would need for that night. We were the only guests in the restaurant that evening. Another, absolutely incredible meal @ $100 per head with a $200 tip(and cash only). After dinner, the chef came out and we stood up and applauded his efforts. Our Chinese friend spoke with them in Chinese. We learned they were immigrants to the US and all he ever wanted to do was open a restaurant in America. Well done.

We left this “hole in the wall” restaurant and waddled up and down the hilly streets of SF at 8 PM on a foggy and still evening to a bar that we were told was incredible.

The last block we needed to walk was down a side street, more of an alley void of cars. It was narrow; it was only lit by a few street lights, void of human beings. It was San Francisco. The fog was at knee level and the air was still yet we could still hear the fog horn from the bay.

“I think we’re here”. “Where?” “Here”. “Here” was a back door that looked more like the back door to a low budget stage production. Once we entered the first door, a gentleman in a tux welcomed us and he swung open another set of doors…and we entered into another “dimension”.

My jaw dropped. There we were, in a completely renovated space which used to be a huge “bank” It had all the original marble floors, walls and the place was “deco”. Most if not all of the dozens of people there were in Tux’s and Gowns. The music was 30'ish, the lighting well done. We walked up to the bar, an old SF hardwood bar, buffed to a high gloss. A gorgeous young lady approached us, a blond, a blond with ruby red lipstick, eyes like…well…”Gentlemen, my specialty is martini’s…”.
After four or so, I was sloshed. We were sloshed. After a few more…
An incredible four hours.

We left at 1 AM and exited into the alley and decided that we were way too inebriated to walk back to the hotel. We needed to walk a few blocks to hail a taxi. We, the six of us, crammed into the vehicle and rode up and down, side to side, the hills and streets of San Francisco to the hotel. An interesting ride to say the least.


We got up the next morning, late the next morning, and started all over again. We did this for 3 more days. Extraordinary.

A very interesting and very memorable visit to the City by the Bay.

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chronology: Very interesting Mr David. Tuxiedoes? If I were in San Francisco I could only dress one way; Long MaKintosh Raincoet and Stetson Hat, (the folks in San Fran would be laughing at me all night). Only you should eat 'American' Mr David; Grilled Steak and French fried potatoes with fried eggs.

That Bar you went into sounds mysterious. But then you Americans always seen to have secrets, even knowing where Bars like that are. You never mentioned your Hotel. My room would have to have the Hotel Sign in Neon right next to my room window blinking on and off all night. Like you I would have a pleasant walk at night in San Fransisco. As I walk out of the Hotel entrance the Desk Clerk would ask me ironically; 'going anywhere interesting'? 'don't worry Sir' I would say, 'there is an adventure going on tonight in San Fransisco and I am going to be a part of it' I then walk out into the San Fransisco Foggy night.

davidk14: If we ever decided to meet for a drink and good food...San Francisco will be it. Outback would really enjoy it too.

chronology: I am a Deadwood man Mr David. No not the T.V. series, but the Town of Deadwood South Dakota. As a child, (longer ago than I care to remember) I fell in love with Town and the characters that lived there. Wild Bill Hickok, Calamity Jane, Potato Pete. It would take me about three air trips and 20 hours of Flying to get there. First to New York, then to Chicago, then to Rapid City, then a Bus trip to Deadwood. There are many haunted Bars in Deadwood Deadwood was a town where anyone could turn up on the streets there, Russian Aristocrats on Buffalo shoots, British Army deserters from Canada, Scottish Crofters turned out of their homeland. A truly unpredictable rich in interest place. First thing to do in Deadwood when you get there is respect and honour America's heroes, and place flowers on Wild Bill's and Calamity Jane's graves.

Hey David. Just got curious and checked on Flights to Rapid City direct from where I am and there are now direct flights. Not many return flights, (about 8 a year). So I may yet get to make the pilgrimage to Deadwood.