Distaste for the U.S. Constitution

Malobear
Malobear: Your thoughts please.

The Washington Times 7:30 p.m., Thursday, January 6, 2011
The Constitution was read at the opening of the new session of the House of Representatives yesterday. What was most remarkable about this was the almost hysterical opposition from congressional Democrats and left-wing commentators. In what should have been a united celebration of the nation's foundation document in a period of partisan rancor, liberals instead reinforced the view that they are profoundly uncomfortable with the essential truths underlying American freedom.
Some leftists smugly observed that the literal reading of the document does not convey its full meaning, which has been defined, redefined and sometimes misdefined by successive generations of courts. This argument fit neatly into liberal talking points about the new congressional majority being composed of naive bumpkins who know little of the sophisticated workings of government. Yet Washington's corrupting climate is the very basis of the conservative critique.
The country has strayed far from the artful simplicity of our original founding document. Congress, the executive and the courts all assume powers they never were intended to have. The most recent Congress interpreted the Commerce Clause - which simply was supposed to prevent states from throwing up internal tariff barriers - to give government the right to compel Americans to spend private monies on health insurance. If this power stands, there truly are no limits to the power of the bureaucratic leviathan.
Liberals believe the Constitution is infinitely elastic, but it cannot be a blueprint for unlimited government. In Marbury v. Madison (1803), Chief Justice John Marshall noted that the very purpose of a constitution is to limit power, not to grant unlimited license. "Between these alternatives there is no middle ground," he wrote. "The Constitution is either a superior, paramount law, unchangeable by ordinary means, or it is on a level with ordinary legislative acts, and like other acts, is alterable when the legislature shall please to alter it." If Congress may do as it pleases, "then written constitutions are absurd attempts, on the part of the people, to limit a power in its own nature illimitable."
Some left-wingers accused the Republican leadership of fetishism for having the Constitution read in Congress. Rep. Jerry Nadler, New York Democrat, called the "ritualistic reading" of the Constitution "propaganda" and lectured against reading the document like a "sacred text." His critique accurately expresses the crisis of legitimacy our government is facing.
Legislative and executive abuses of the past two years have generated a cynicism about government not seen since the days before the Civil War. In 1838, Abraham Lincoln observed, in words that could apply today, that, "if the laws be continually despised and disregarded, if their rights to be secure in their persons and property, are held by no better tenure than the caprice of a mob, the alienation of their affections from the Government is the natural consequence." The solution to these ills was "simple," Lincoln said. Let reverence for the laws "become the political religion of the nation" where all would "sacrifice unceasingly upon its altars."
Today, Lincoln's vision of reverence for the laws is needed more by the government than by the people. The point of reading the Constitution on the floor of Congress is to remind those who tread the marbled halls of power that they are not philosopher kings sent to Washington to give life to their every pet theory, every caprice, every whim. If the United States is to survive as a free nation, the government must return to first principles.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Good article Malobear.

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chronology
chronology: Interesting points Malo. Can you point out which 'Legislative abuses' have occurred in the last two years? The definition of 'fetishism' does fit the Republican 'apron strings' attitude to the Constitution. Remember, the American people do not only 'have' the Constitution, they must 'interpret' it each generation. Shirly Phellps Roper of the Westborough Baptist Church is often slammed for her 'interpretation' of the Bible. But she is adamant that her interpretation of The New Testament (God hates Gays, Divorced people, Fornicators etc) is the correct one.
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Wampum6
Wampum6: A most interesting read, Malobear!
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Malobear
Malobear: Well heres the ex-house speaker blaming a past president for her screw ups.
Pelosi:"We still would have lost the election because we had 9.5% unemployment. Let's take it where that came from. The policies of George W. Bush and the Republican support for his initiatives, tax cuts are for the wealth, recklessness by some,"

But hey,the dress fits well.Shame there is nothing between the ears.
Democrats,dont like the Constitution and love pointing fingers...Politricks,you got to love it.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Malo,
This is what the American people that have been polled have been saying. What the frick is wrong with some of those people? Didn't they get it on Nov 2nd? They work for us! Now Nancy grew up in a bubble in SF surrounded by the likes of her. She has an excuse. Not a good one, but one anyways. Yet she did say, "Let's pass the bill then we'll find out what's in it." What? Vote on something you say you didn't read???Insanity.

Note: And I'd say that about anyone, left or right who votes on bills they havn't read. They are not fulfilling their oblication.

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chronology
chronology: Malo. An 'of the cuff' remark by Ms Pelosi cannot be called 'abuses'. Again can you Post any procedural abuses by the present Administration that can be discussed within the context of The Constitution?.
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Malobear
Malobear: Chrono,I was never a "Bush fanboy". Pelosi has her right to her opinions,but she is blaming everyone except the person in the mirror.She like many are going to find out (Dems and Reps). If your not doing your job,your out. Just like you and me with our work.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Chrono: Over 50% of states have filed lawsuits that the Healthcare Bill is un-constitutional. This was one of the many bills that were passed by Pelosi that is now being vigorously contested.

The Healthcare Bill will eventually be seen by the Supreme Court.

Many, many more of the bills that the Dem's passed in the house will be reviewed for constitutional legitimacy.

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chronology
chronology: Malo. You have deleted parts of your original Post and inserted more text so am a little thrown in responding to what you saying. Will get back to this Post when I have researched your points.
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Malobear
Malobear: No Chrono, I didnt, I mispelled a word and corrected it, but thats all.
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chronology
chronology: Malo. I checked out your objection to Washington using the 'Commerce Clause' with respect to Health Care. First, the Commerce Clause is said by some Constitutional Experts to be a Law regarding Trade with American Indian Tribes, Foreign Countries and States within the Union. Since the Stock Market Crash of 1929 the Clause has been used in Cases as varied as Labour Union Regulation, Alcohol Sales and Insurance regulation. There nothing at all that the Democrats have been doing that is different to what Republican and Democrats have been doing for about a hundred years.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Malo mis-spells a word and you said to Malo,”… You have deleted parts of your original Post and inserted more text so am a little thrown in responding to what you saying. Will get back to this Post when I have researched your points.” What’s that all about Chrono?

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Malobear
Malobear: Chrono, This article is NOT written by me but by a staff writer writing a editorial about the Dem's response to the Reps reading the Constitution on the floor. This is really what caught my eye.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Chrono,

And on the other side of the question is, can the government force people to buy healthcare? This is a slippery slope. Can the government tell me what to buy such as if they said for the sake of all Americans, you must buy this product under penalty of law, just like the Heathcare Bill? There are some great things I agree within the bill, but very few. That’s why over 50% of all the states are suing the Federal Government because they believe the bill is unconstitutional. Over 2,000 pages that were voted on without being read, as I said in another thread…insanity.

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chronology
chronology: David. I tried to message Malo to explain but he does not take personal messages. I thought he had changed his original text. I have noticed this a number of times on the Web. Not with Malo but with Sites in general. I went on a Page on one computer one time and forget to check something, so I went on the same page on another computer and noticed different texts and Posts. Like you say Mr David, 'what is that all about'. Maybe different servers filter Posts? If you say his Post is the same, and Malo does, then I am 'outvoted' (American Democracy at work)
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Malobear
Malobear: Sorry Chrono, Ive never noticed that. hmmm
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chronology
chronology: Malo, point taken. Republicans misrepresenting Democrats, nothing new there. David, we are talking about Health Care for American families, not just 'products'. There is a world of difference between your daughter having a Leukemia scan and her buying a dishwasher.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Chrono:

The point is the American is not making the decision. It’s the “government”.

That’s what has been happening here in the US since the historic Nov 2 elections where 65 seats in the House were turned over and close to 700 seats in state governments turned over as well.

The American public has had it with Washington and wants them to do their jobs representing them. Bring the budget under control. Stop spending money. The debt is over 14.3 trillion dollars. More debt has been accumulated in the last two years as all the debt from Washington to Clinton combined.

There will be reductions of benefits and services from Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. The debt is almost equal to the entire United States Gross domestic output. When the debt reaches GDO, it’s all over. The country is insolvent. The Healthcare Bill over the next ten to twenty years is estimated to go red by trillions. We can’t afford it..not as it currently is.

Right now every American owes $45,000 of the debt. Every ‘TAXPAYER’ owes $127,000 of the debt. Even if you taxed every working American 85%, we still can’t pay down the debt fast enough.

Something’s got to give. The only way to bring the costs of government down is to reduce its size and scope. So, back to the constitution and what does it allow for and what it doesn’t.

In this 112th Congress, the plan is that no bill can be brought to the floor without constitutional approval.

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chronology
chronology: David. I was just watching a T.V. Show about a family in Arizona. The Mom going about her everyday routine, Dad going to work, the kids involved with school, having fun like all kids everywhere. The United States Government is representing those families in Arizona, and every other State. Not every American wants the kind of 'breaks slammed on' Government and Budget Cuts you do.

I was talking to a Trucker one time in the 1990s about his trip through Russia. One Town he told me about was where there was no money at all, no one in the Town had a nickle or Dime. Half the Town were unemployed, they just walked about visiting each others homes each day. Teachers, Police Officers, Public Officials had not been paid for months. Electricity in the Town came off and on during the day and night.

Look David, Washington 'is in touch' with American families. If Congress slams on the Breaks the way you and other Right Wingers tell them too American families will be hurt badly. Your son in law, and your daughter will get no Paycheck. You know they deserve better than being thrown out of their home and queuing up at soup kitchens like the Russians did in the 1990s.

By the by David. I am so jealous of the lovely weather Arizonans have. As I go around in semi darkness all the time, freezing cold temperatures, you Guys have lovely weather.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Chrono said: David. I was just watching a T.V. Show about a family in Arizona. The Mom going about her everyday routine, Dad going to work, the kids involved with school, having fun like all kids everywhere. The United States Government is representing those families in Arizona, and every other State. Not every American wants the kind of 'breaks slammed on' Government and Budget Cuts you do.

David said: Not every family does. But the majority of American families have a budget and follow through with their budget. If they need to eat ramin noodles (sometimes 10 for a $1) once a week to make budget, they do. That’s all the American people want…for the government to live within its means as well. For congress people and Senators to spend millions upon millions of dollars if not billions on projects that mean absolutely nothing for the economy or job growth is really pissing people off. The governor of New Jersey just shut down two long term projects that would alleviate traffic congestion. He and others felt since the project had huge cost over-runs and that the project would not create a significant amount of jobs nor add to the revenue of New Jersey, he put the projects on hold. Nobody complained except the unions of course.


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Chrono said: I was talking to a Trucker one time in the 1990s about his trip through Russia. One Town he told me about was where there was no money at all, no one in the Town had a nickle or Dime. Half the Town were unemployed, they just walked about visiting each others homes each day. Teachers, Police Officers, Public Officials had not been paid for months. Electricity in the Town came off and on during the day and night.

David responds: Russia right? Of course that happened that way. The government was in control of “everything” and when it crashed…everything crashed.

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Chrono said: Look David, Washington 'is in touch' with American families. If Congress slams on the Breaks the way you and other Right Wingers tell them too American families will be hurt badly. Your son in law, and your daughter will get no Paycheck. You know they deserve better than being thrown out of their home and queuing up at soup kitchens like the Russians did in the 1990s.

David responds: I disagree. If “the government” was in touch with the American people, it would not have run up the debt especially in the last two years. I’m relatively confident that the soup lines of the thirties will not occur since the business sector is not overwhelmed by the government. Jobs are created in the private sector…jobs are not created by government. There are some reports that although job growth is very slow, the economy is recovering….slowly.

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Chrono said: By the by David. I am so jealous of the lovely weather Arizonans have. As I go around in semi darkness all the time, freezing cold temperatures, you Guys have lovely weather

David says: Yes, the weather is beautiful. I’ve lived here since 1978 and although the summers tend to be miserable, the non-summer months are great. Where is it exactly that you live? Siberia?


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chronology
chronology: David. 'If a family has to eat Noodles one day a week'. David, the United States of America put a man on the Moon, it has sent Space Craft to the far reaches of the Solar System, it has written the worlds greatest Legal System, it has written Bills of Rights protecting Gay people, Black people, Muslim people, and you think it is acceptable for American families to eat Noodles to survive? Man that is far out.

You do not think Americans would have been evicted from their homes and eat at soup kitchens if the Mr Bush and the Democrats never acted to save the economy David, East Germans were eating at soup kitchens in the 1990s, Russians were eating at soup kitchens the same time. David, Washington has saved you Guys from experiencing that on a national scale. Germans are smart people, so are Russians, if that could happen to them, it could have happened to you Guys.

And yes Arizona is beautiful, am watching the T.V. show now, (I must spend more time in Phoenix 'virtually' than you do). One thing I notice about Phoenix is everyone seems to carry Mineral Water bottles to sip water all the time.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Chrono said:… and you think it is acceptable for American families to eat Noodles to survive? Man that is far out.

David responds: Haven’t you ever been poor? Everyone I know has been at one time or another. When times were good, great. But there were times that I’ve been so poor, that as a kid, we would go to the neighborhood bakery and buy sour dough loaf bread that had been previously pulled from the shelves because it was old. Mom would garlic butter the loaves and freeze them. We would go fishing and crabbing what seemed like every weekend for dinner. If fishing was good, we would have a few meals and had great garlic bread as well. We had good times and I have great memories as a family “surviving”. My parents, liberals, never asked the government for support of any kind. To my father, having survived the thirties and early forties as a Jew in Nazi Germany, escaping and make his way to the United States, enlisting in the US Army. He would say to us, “…we are wealthy to have the opportunity to be safe, to be free to be what we want to be. We are not being hunted down to be slaughtered.” Dad was a concert violinist so there were a few months a year he did not work. Mom grew up through the depression and her experiences also helped us through tough times. As a kid, me and my brother were never stressed out. There were times of plenty and there were lean times. All good lessons.

Now being an adult, besides the times that we did have “plenty, more than plenty”, I’ve also been so poor that all we had (wife and kids) money for was tortillas, rice and beans…cheaper than Ramin Noodles and that was with a wife and three daughters. I also needed to decide whether to pay the gas bill or electricity bill….I chose the electricity bill…the gas was shut off. I never asked the government for support…I took responsibility for my predicament, pulled on my boots and did what was necessary to improve my own life. No help from government. It took a few years, but we learned to appreciate hard work and the benefits, not only monetarily, but spiritually. My girls also learned lessons. Don’t expect anyone to bail you out. You are responsible for your actions and what you decide your life is going to be, it is going to be. We celebrate our successes and appreciate knowing that sometime in the future, we may be poor again.

My daughters are well balanced and when the economy recently took a dump, they were each affected in their own reality yet they were and are ready from lessons learned.

It is not government’s job to take care of me. It is my responsibility to take care of me.

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davidk14
davidk14: Regarding Arizona, yes during the summer, you always have water with you...specially when driving. If you breakdown on the freeway or even a street, you may be standing in 100+ F for an hour or more. The internal temperature of a broken down car can reach 185 F or hotter. Dehydration is the number one illness during the summer. Shade is number the two survival need here.

Leaving an animal in a parked car is treated as animal abuse. There have been many stories of people breaking car windows and removing the animal, saving it's life and the car owner being arrested. No charges are ever filed for damaging the window or temporarily stealing a pet.

There have been, and one is too many, that a child has been left in a parked car whose internal temperature exceeds 185 F during the summer. The child is dead within minutes. Parents never recover from that. Sometimes they are charged with murder, sometimes no charges. Depends if it was an accident or whether "they" left the child in the car knowing that they did "just for a few minutes"...

Swimming pools are a killer of young children during the summer. No matter what type of pool security you have, a child can find a way to get to the water. Climb a fence, climb a tree, jump fom the roof of the house, it has happened. It's when the parents don't have adequate fencing and gates is when charges may be filed.....very, very sad.

There are those that think government should be sticking its nose into our business regulating pool safety fencing, gates and other devices and should visit, inspect and certify that every pool and pool owner in the state is certified and taught as a life saving reality. The government does get involved to an extent; however there are dozens of pool injuries and deaths every year. Unfortunately, in a state with 10 million + people, the cost for a few dozen people is extensive. Again, this is where parents need to take full responsibility for their children and their safety and not depend on government.


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chronology
chronology: David............. 'the Government sticking it's nose into people's business' 'people should take responsibility for themselves', very commendable, tough, self reliant words Mr David.

In a game of Hockey, you have a set of Rules and a referee. In their everyday lives, Americans need a proper minimum wage set at a livable rate, where that cannot provide a civilised level of living top-ups with food stamps. There is no need for American families to scrimp by on Noodles. Honestly.

Condolences by the way to the victims of that mad man. I think if you waged that he will get lethal injection soon, you would not be risking your money. Turns out he was some Guy who was on the Web Forums a lot. Creepy to think he could have been here on Wire.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Chrono said: There is no need for American families to scrimp by on Noodles. Honestly.

David responds: I agree, there is no reason that American families need to scrimp by on noodles.

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Chrono said: Condolences by the way to the victims of that mad man. I think if you waged that he will get lethal injection soon, you would not be risking your money. Turns out he was some Guy who was on the Web Forums a lot. Creepy to think he could have been here on Wire.

David responds: The tragedy was just that, a tragedy. Six dead, 14 wounded. So far, all information points to mental illness and nothing to do with a “political agenda” as we would understand it. There was one piece of information on his web-site or computer or something where he went on that American currency should be based on marijuana.

His schoolmates were terrified of him where one or more students just knew he was the type to pick up a gun and kill people. There were numerous “signs” that this person was ‘prime’ for this type of tragedy.

Mental illness experts are saying things like this are bound to happen since mental illness is not treated with the urgency it deserves because the law states that until a person commits an act of violence, the law cannot get involved. There are plenty of mentally ill people that will never commit acts of violence, and to decide who is and who is not going to commit acts of violence is extremely difficult.

This is the same type of mental illness story...the Virginia Tech massacre but it was a school shooting that took place on Monday, April 16, 2007 on the campus of Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, Virginia.

In two separate attacks, approximately two hours apart, the perpetrator, Seung-Hui Cho, killed 32 people and wounded many others before committing suicide. The massacre is the deadliest peacetime shooting incident by a single gunman in United States history, on or off a school campus.

Cho, a senior English major at Virginia Tech, had previously been diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder. During much of his middle school and high school years, he received therapy and special education support. After graduating from high school, Cho enrolled at Virginia Tech.

Due to federal privacy laws, Virginia Tech was not informed of Cho's previous diagnosis or the accommodations he had been granted at school. In 2005, Cho was accused of stalking two female students. After an investigation, a Virginia special justice declared Cho mentally ill and ordered him to attend treatment. Lucinda Roy, a professor and former chairwoman of the English department, had also asked Cho to seek counseling. Cho's mother even turned to the church for help.

The Virginia Tech review panel detailed numerous incidents of aberrant behavior beginning in Cho's junior year of college that should have served as warning signals of his deteriorating mental condition. Several former professors of Cho reported that his writing as well as his classroom behavior was disturbing, and he was encouraged to seek counseling. In 2005, Cho had been declared mentally ill by a Virginia special justice and ordered to seek outpatient treatment.

This tragedy in Arizona is just another situation where there were signs just like at Virginia Tech, but nobody went the extra mile.

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