The Truth About Libya rebel1916: Colonel Muammar Gadaffi is frequently referred to in the media as a "mad dictator" and "bloody tyrant", but do these allegations accord with the facts? Libya consists of over 15O tribes, with the two main groups, the Meghabra living in Tripolitania in the west and the Wafallah living in Cyrenaica in the east. Previous attempts to unite these tribes by the Turkish *******911) and ltalian {*******) colonial rulers failed and the country was split in two for administrative purposes. Oil was discovered in Libya in 1959, but King ldris of the Senussi tribe allowed most of the oil profits to be siphoned into the coffers of the oil companies. The coup d'etat on 1 September 1969 led by Colonel Gadaffi had countrywide support. He subsequently married a woman from the royal Barqa tribe and adroitly unified the nation. By retaining Libya's oil wealth for the benefit of all its people, Gadaffi had created a socialist paradise. There is no unemployment, Libya has the highest GDP in .Africa, less than 5% of the population is classified as poor and it has fewer people living below the poverty datum line than for example in Holland. Life expectancy is 75 years and is the highest in Africa and I0% above the world average. With the exception of the nomadic Bedouin and Tuareg tribes, most Libyan families possess a house and a car. There is free health care and education and not surprisingly Libya has a literacy rate of 82%. Last year Gadaffi distributed $500 to each man, woman and child (population 6.5 million). Libya has a tolerable human rights record and stands at 61 on the International Incarceration Index, comparable with countries in central Europe (the lower the rating, the lower the standing - the USA occupies the no.1 spot!). There is hardly any crime and only rebels and traitors are dealt with harshly. Anyone who has read Gadaffi's little Green Book will realize that he is a thoughtful and enlightened leader. Libya has been accused of having committed numerous acts of terrorism in the past, but many of these have been perpetrated by foreign intelligence agencies as false flag operations - the Lockerbie bombing being a prime example. The CIA and MI6 and their frontmen have been stoking up dissent in the east of the country for almost 30 years. Libya produces exceptionally high quality light crude oil and its production cost of $1 a barrel, compared to the current price of $115, is the lowest in the world. Riba (usury) is not permitted. The Central bank of Libya is a wholly-owned by the Libyan Government and is run as a state bank, issuing all government loans free of interest. This is in contrast to the exploitative fractional reserve banking system of the West. The no-fly zone and the bombing of Libya have nothing to do with the protection of civilians. It is an act of war a blatant and crude attempt by the oil corporations and international bankers to steal the wealth of Libya.  younlee: well said rebel...if only the peolpe in the west would think for themselves instead of blindly following what our politicians and media say!!  davidk14: . Your post is not completely accurate. Perhaps you should do some research and go to the following site. There are numerous other sites that totally contradict your post as well. But, I suggest you start here first: http: //en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/Libya . davidk14: . Most of the time I do not because I agree, the site is not absolute, but then what is? I sometimes use wiki occasionally when starting out so if there is anything that is disagreeable, then a discussion can be started. Is there anything from that wiki post you do not agree with since it contradicts your post? Perhaps with one of the resource materials it provides? .  hellbhoy: DICTATOR/TYRANT : one who rules by force or aggression or by any other means to maintain control/power or rule when the civil population revolt/rebel or protest for change of leadership/government or regime by another regime/ruler or government.I'd say he was a tyrant because the people wish change and he does not want to give up his throne.Not very democratic is it ?.  mywish: @ rebel; well said!..and i do agree with your thoughts. All the countries who r participating on libya's no fly zone...war are just after their benefit, it can be seen clearly that they are not caring for the ppl or the country. If they think they can solve all the worlds problem, why dnt they try to do something for Somalia, Ivorycoast, Bahrain,Yemen and other african countries?...ha?..its a shame..i dnt know whom they still wanna fool... Stop gambling...with others life...pls westerns!!!!!  The Hat Tipper: First off: Please don't bash at Wikipedia. If you want to hear my whole rant about how Wikipedia actually IS reliable and how you can learn from it, just let me know. Second of all, Libya is having problems, they started poking at us, and we came back. Simple. rebel1916: "started poking at us?" PMSL....... how so? And do you not think that is a bit of a hypcritical comment to be making? America has their noses in every country they stand to profit from!  chronology: Rebel. Hat tipper makes a good point. The real problem is Mr Gaddafi has always been a friend to the outcast and down trodden. He sent help to British inner city communities struggling against Lady Thatcher and her Police Forces, which at the time were the most aggressive and Right wing in Europe. He sent help to British Coal miners struggling against the same Thatcher Government. He helped the 'down trodden ' Irish in what he saw as their struggle against British aggression. He helped Palestinians fighting Israel. He has been a friend of minorities in the U.S. So 'The Colonel' has been a thorn in the side of aggressive and oppressive governments for decades. But these Governments play hard ball, and if some one takes a stand against them by defending the down trodden, that person becomes a target, like Mr Gaddafi is now. rebel1916: An example of "poking". China has called on the United States to stop interfering in the internal affairs of other countries under the pretext of human rights issues. China's Foreign Ministry Spokesman Hong Lei urged Washington to focus on its own human rights conditions, saying, "We advise the US side to reflect on its own human rights issues and not to position itself as a preacher of human rights," the state-funded BBC reports. "[The US should] stop using the issue of human rights reports to interfere in other countries' internal affairs," the Chinese politician added. Hong says China welcomes talks about rights on the basis of equality and mutual respect. However, he added that Beijing resolutely opposes meddling in other countries' affairs. The development comes following the annual release of US State Department's report on human rights, which criticized China for rights abuses. The American report, considered by many observers as more of a political document against countries not in good terms with the US, accused Beijing of stepping up restrictions on lawyers and journalists. US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton also claimed on Friday that Beijing's record on human rights was worsening. "We remain deeply concerned about reports that since February, dozens of people including public-interest lawyers, writers, artists, intellectuals and activists have been arbitrarily detained and arrested," Clinton said. The Asian country has also been accused by the US of tightening controls on civil liberties and imposing more restraints over the press and internet access. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/174033.html  StuckInTheSixties: If Gaddafi "created a socialist paradise," how could it even be possible that the "the CIA and MI6 and their frontmen have been stoking up dissent in the east of the country"? Common sense would suggest that in a paradise, attempts by outsiders to foment dissent would be impossible simply from a lack of cooperation. If you lived in paradise, why would you dissent? And if those attempts to foment dissent come from within the country, then it wouldn't be a paradise, would it? Please explain this apparent contradiction within your premise. The Hat Tipper: I would have expected more of a mature answer, Rebel. Instead of coming back with a real response, you just bash america. That means you have nothing to debate. Post something relevant please.  Malobear: (ABCNews)WASHINGTON, April 3, 2011 In his first interview since leaving the White House last fall, former Obama National Security Advisor Jim Jones said that the U.S. military intervention in Libya was not in the vital interest of the United States and the action "was more in the vital interest of Europeans" than Americans "It's not a vital interest, in the sense that it affects the vital security of the nation, but we are part of an alliance," he told "This Week" anchor Christiane Amanpour. "We are one of the global leaders." "It is more in the vital interest of Europeans," the retired Marine said, "when you consider the effects of massive immigration, the effects of terror, the oil market." Last Sunday on "This Week," Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said that Libya did not pose an actual or imminent threat to the United States before the military action began and that the operation "was not a vital national interest to the United States." Amanpour pressed Jones on what the endgame of the Libya operation might be. "This is the big issue, Christiane," he said, explaining that he didn't know how the U.S. would get Libya leader Moammar Gadhafi to leave. Who are the Libyan Rebels? Amanpour asked Jones about the many questions surrounding the Libyan opposition that the United States supports. Jones said that "you can be sure that in any of these goings-on in the Middle East, there's going to be an element of radical thinking and people who are pursuing goals that are not in agreement with what we hope the outcome will be." Amanpour asked if the rebels should be armed. "I think the first thing that has to be done is to find who they are. If you start from the proposition that the reason for committing our forces, as Americans or as part of NATO, was basically to avoid a massacre of innocent civilians, which probably would have happened, now we're there. Now we have to follow the rest of the trail to identify these people then decide whether that's meritorious or not in terms of training, organizing, equipping," he said. "The United States had not done that yet. But we are trying to figure out who's who on the ground," he added. (theglobeandmail)Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:52AM EDT Even as the Libyan war just gets underway, the economic war over Libya’s treasures has already begun. Italy, Libya’s biggest European investor, is at the centre of the economic war. On Monday Italian foreign minister Franco Frattini threatened to deny the allied forces access to Italian airbases unless command of the operation were shifted to NATO. At the moment, the French, British and Americans are calling the shots (Italy’s bases are closed to Libyan operations; the Canadian CF-18 fighter-bomber pilots are flying from Sicily). Why does Italy cherish a NATO takeover? Because the Italians do not want the Libyan rebels seeing the air war as largely an Anglo-French effort. Italy fears that, should the rebels succeed in overthrowing Moammar Gadhafi’s regime, they will repay the British and the French by giving them the most valued reconstruction and oil projects. If NATO takes control, Britain and France’s influence over rebel loyalties would be diluted, putting Italy on a more equal footing for the post-war reconstruction spoils, whenever that may come. France has been resisting transferring military control to NATO. On Wednesday, however, France softened its position. It appears NATO will take over, though political control will go to a coalition that is to include non-NATO members Qatar and United Arab Emirates. Malobear: Italy, which ruled Libya as a colony for 30 years, until the Second World War, is especially worried about France muscling into the Libyan economy. Italy considers Libya part of its economic landscape. Eni, the Italian national oil company, and Europe’s fourth largest oil player, is the biggest investor in Libya. Before the war started, Eni was pumping about 250,000 barrels a day of Libyan oil, most of which went to Europe. Last year, according to Morgan Stanley research, 32 per cent of Libyan oil exports went to Italy (France, Germany and Spain were the other largest importers). But French oil giant Total is also on the ground in Libya; it pumped about 50,000 barrels a day until the war virtually eliminated exports. Italy would go into a rage if the rebel forces, should they overthrow Ghadafi, were to reward Total with lavish oil concessions and investment opportunities in other projects, like highway construction, that the Italians consider their right. Economic relationships between France and Italy are already strained. The Italian government this week is plotting ways to thwart unwanted foreign takeovers. One foreign investment in particular riled the Italians, and it came from France. Groupe Lactalis, the privately owned French dairy company, has just amassed a 29 per cent stake in Italy’s Parmalat, one of the world’s biggest dairy, juices and yogurt makers (Parmalat is a big brand in Canada). The Italian government fears it will lead to a full-blown takeover, one that would transfer control of a company they consider a national and international champion to France (only the Italians would consider food a strategic resource, but that’s another story). While NATO’s control of the Libyan air war will no doubt please Italy, there is a nightmare scenario for the Italians. If Gadhafi defeats the rebels, or even retains control of the western part of Libya, he will no doubt retaliate by shredding Italian investments in his territory. Before the war, Gadhafi and Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi were friends. Now they are enemies. Eni, the Italian oil company, is still nervous. As the former Obama National Security Advisor Jim Jones said "Libya was not in the vital interest of the United States". Matter of fact Rebel, as also stated "we are trying to figure out who's who on the ground" The U.S. is very nervous about whos on the ground Muslim Brotherhood,AlQuada,they dont know. The only reason the U.S. is involved is at the U.K and France request. In this conflict Rebel,your big european oil companies are the ones behind this. You might like to point your finger at the woes of the world at America at every chance,but the U.K. and Europe wear the shoe on this one. lol StuckInTheSixties: Rebel, that wasn't a complicated question. You're obviously a smart guy. Shall I walk you through it? Okay, I'll try again ... On one hand, you describe Gaddafi's Libya as a "socialist paradise" ... right? The dictionary definition (Encarta Dictionary: English - North America) of "paradise" is: place or state of perfect happiness; a place, situation, or condition in which somebody finds perfect happiness Common sense suggests that if Libya was the "socialist paradise" you describe, anyone living there wouldn't want to change it. Why change the perfect happiness of paradise into something lesser ... right? Common sense also suggests that if Libya was that "socialist paradise" you describe, someone from the outside, like the CIA or MI6, would have no chance of persuading the Libyans living in that paradise of changing it. Why would any Libyan want to change the perfect happiness of paradise into something lesser ... right? So your description of Libya as a "socialist paradise" contradicts the notion of the CIA and MI6 and their "frontmen" (whatever those are) from being able to meddle in their politics ... right? So ... can you explain that contradiction?  Animal Lover: I just wonder why the people ever started protesting in the first place, then, if things are so wonderful in Libya. That is what started the current situation off. chronology: Alyt. You wonder why people are on the streets in Libya? Well I know Rebel and Flash see the 'Hidden Hand' of the C.I.A. in everything, but the answer is probably more mundane. When the Westboro Baptist Church were Picketing in a Town, a Guy in the Town (their claim not mine) hired some local thugs to beat them up. WBC claim this Guy owned a Gay Bar in that particular Town. Now if a small Business Guy can pay a few tough Guys to beat up on a few Church Protesters, imagine what some Business folks with millions, no Billions of Dollars can do in a country whose leader they hate? There is always some Group or Tribe that holds a grudge against it's Government. Supply them with money, give them weapons, and what do you get? Before folks blame the C.I.A. for all this trouble they should keep in mind there are dozens of people with enough money and motives to creat this trouble in Libya.  FogofWar: "Colonel Muammar Gadaffi is frequently referred to in the media as a "mad dictator" and "bloody tyrant", but do these allegations accord with the facts?" "Anyone who has read Gadaffi's little Green Book will realize that he is a thoughtful and enlightened leader." ...Are you seriously implying that a dictator who will order his Air Force to bomb civilians because they do not support him is not a bad leader? Are you insane??? "Wiki entries are proved to be unreliable, I hope you don't base all arguments from wiki!" And Iranian media has also been proven unreliable; insanely biased; and will even go as far as execute people for reporting against Iranian interest (pan-Islamism). Iran also does not recognize Israel as a nation; because they are not Islamic; they are not "allowed" in the Middle East. Iran has publicly admitted to funding billions of dollars to organizations that mass murder civilians who are Jewish in Israel; because they are not Muslim. You should think twice before you buy into everything your Iranian news reports are telling you. mywish: "@ rebel; well said!..and i do agree with your thoughts. All the countries who r participating on libya's no fly zone...war are just after their benefit, it can be seen clearly that they are not caring for the ppl or the country." Canada is on of the countries participating in the no fly zone. Are you suggesting that we have no care for the people there and are only there for our benefit? Perhaps you should seek the truth before you base an opinion on ignorance. Canada had investments in Libyan oil under Gaddafi. Canadians have been working in Libya on oil sites; and has millions of dollars invested into Gaddafi's oil industry. If we were acting solely on our own benefit; then we would be siding with Gaddafi; as Gaddafi is in our best benefit. We have opposed Gaddafi; and have halted our investing into Libyan oil; removing ALL Canadian corporations and workers there; and taking part in the coalition Air Force; contributing a rather large portion of our Air Force to stop the man who was benefiting us there. "If they think they can solve all the worlds problem, why dnt they try to do something for Somalia," Apparently you were either not alive in the 1990s; or you had no access to a television. "China has called on the United States to stop interfering in the internal affairs of other countries under the pretext of human rights issues" China has also been one of the major violators of human rights in the past half century. No wonder they wouldn't want the US to stop it. "Hong says China welcomes talks about rights on the basis of equality and mutual respect. However, he added that Beijing resolutely opposes meddling in other countries' affairs" Just like in Tibet huh? "The Asian country has also been accused by the US of tightening controls on civil liberties and imposing more restraints over the press and internet access." Do you have any idea how many political forums and internet websites are restricted in China to limit the people from voicing an opinion against the communist government???? Chronology: "Now if a small Business Guy can pay a few tough Guys to beat up on a few Church Protesters, imagine what some Business folks with millions, no Billions of Dollars can do in a country whose leader they hate? There is always some Group or Tribe that holds a grudge against it's Government. Supply them with money, give them weapons, and what do you get?" It doesn't necessarily need to be a tribe. There are many other nations in the Middle East that thrive off of others in chaos. Iran is one. Makes sense as to why the Iranian PressTV would want to condemn action to oppose this chaos now doesn't it? FogofWar: ...and Chronology; it wouldn't take paying off some thugs to get someone to beat the piss out of protestors from the West Baptist Church. This is the Church that protested the funerals of fallen soldiers; telling their families that their soldier son/daughter deserved to die; and that they were glad they were dead! StuckInTheSixties: Hey Fog You should put more space between paragraphs. Your posts aren't taking up enough space. Actually you might do that between each word. StuckInTheSixties: No, I suppose not. I just means that people have to scroll longer to get to the end of your typically endless multi-page post when they're typically skipping over it.
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