Iranian girl attacked in UK over hijab (Page 8)

lavendar_star
lavendar_star: @Onebar are you suggestion that all Muslims have commit terrorists attacks and all Muslims should accept responsibility for crimes done by other Muslims. Do you take responsibly of crimes done by all atheists?????. As for the statement many Muslims do terrible things that’s a lie, some or a few, but many; that’s dangerous statement to make.

What you basically suggestion that everyone should fear Muslims because they could be a potential terrorists i.e. becoming Islamophopic, thats as illogical as should I fear Christians because I'm a doctor who performs abortion and in America; Doctors have been killed by fundamentalist Christians who are against abortion. If theres an issue with fundamentalist Islam fine just like with any fundamentalism, to specific one group and stereotype them as all the same is very dodge.

I also have issues with the Koran fundamentalism views toward women but would I say thats all Muslims have the same view about women in the context of the teaching of Fundamentalist Islam and the Koran no because thats irrational. I also think some people don't care how women are treated in the context of fundamentalist Islam but use it as a weapon to say how horrible Muslims all are. take care
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Lora123
Lora123: My point is that a bloody nose hurts, regardless of the reason you got it. Now if the police had refused to do anything for that girl, or if the hospital had refused to treat her, then that would make it international news. But that didn't happen. A girl being assaulted by bullies is not a reason for condemnation of a nation. Implying there's a systemic problem in Britain over incidents like this is not extrapolation, it is vilification. A grain of salt in a swimming pool does not make it salt water.

I'm certain that on the day that that girl was assaulted, there were hundreds of assaults in Britain because the victim was black / jewish / oriental / handicapped... pick your poison. None of these are less important than the case of the Iranian girl. Yet no one is trying to label Britain as Negro-ophobic / Jew-ophobic / Asian-ophobic / Cripple-ophobic... that would sound silly, right? Just as silly as calling that country "Islam-ophobic" over the actions of a few fools.

Oh, and the reverse racism I was referring to? The fact that this made the news, when similar incidents caused by other circumstances are left unreported in the media. The Iranian girl's case should not be treated as more important than any other.
(Edited by Lora123)
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: I didn't say that Britain was Islamophoci but the reason that incident was highlighted in the press as an example of a possible trend of hostility to Muslim people, the issue of rise of Muslims people or people becoming Muslim living in Western countries is hot issue in Britain hence why it was given attention, where as the groups you mentioned have been in British society a lot longer and they have been and still are giving coverage but at this time there no consider as news worthy. The media like I said have particular reasons for selecting news story over others i.e. for their shock value and novelty etc.

I am British myself and I would say that Britain is not Islamophic but is there a general hostility to Muslims and Islam i.e. from the press and from the far right groups and to a certain extent the right wing groups I would say so. The issue of Islam has also become a hot issue in the context that through the decades Britain has become a secular society and seen a decline in Christianity. This clash or cultures and ideologies has caused much debate in my country, so if the press want to highlight this story as a reflection of this I don't see the problem.

Also you do have white Muslims too, as you can have disabled Muslims. The term you used i.e. fear of black people (negro is such outdated term) it would be classed as racism i.e judging someone for their skin colour or race. As with Islamophia infers that people have fear that Islam will spread and become the dominate culture of Britain or a dislike of people from that faith, yet again thats different from not like someone because their disabled thats prejudices. It all gets complicated and subjective when discussing things so it would have to refer to the laws of that nations and in Britain thats how the law see it, plus jew o phobic ain't that called antisemitism.

But is there a fear that black people, disabled people or Jews taking over Britons cultures identity or country no but is there a hint at least of Islam and Islamic culture taking over Britain, yes, is that fear justified or irrational thats not for me to say.
(Edited by lavendar_star)
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Sarcastic Dots
Sarcastic Dots: The 1930's Jewish community weren't flying planes into skyscrapers or detonating suicide vests in crowded public areas or kidnapping and beheading non-Jews or

Nazi's believed that the soviet union and the communist movement was created by the Jews, by the simple fact of Karl Marx creating the communist manifesto. Not all jews are communist, of course, and not all communists believed in Leninism ans Stalinism, but people still generalised as you are doing now.

You are unable to separate the organisation from the individual, as are a lot of people. This is islamiphobia, xenophobia or racism.
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2bomb18
2bomb18: OMG ...thats sadd...they must take Hijab's very serious
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One Bar
(Post deleted by One Bar 12 years ago)
One Bar
(Post deleted by One Bar 12 years ago)
Lora123
Lora123: I agree with one bar's final point. If by some magical force, every male adult in the Arab world suddenly ceased to exist, it would not be long before piles of hijabs and burkas were burning in the streets.
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Sarcastic Dots
Sarcastic Dots: " it would not be long before piles of hijabs and burkas were burning in the streets."

Is that so? Feminism is about choice, and some women choose to wear head scarfs whether you like it or not. My Christian neighbour wears a headscarf during the winter to stop herself getting cold, and this is why the argument is ridiculous. Let's go all the way back to my first post.

" I don't really like the idea of telling people what to wear, but I detest the idea of telling people what not to wear.

I'm not a Muslim, nor a woman, but nobody is going to tell me I can't rock a headscarf (okay maybe in an airport and bank).

Oh, but it has religious connotations? Better add unnecessary gravitas. Stat!"

I'm not saying that certain muslims FORCE their wives to wear headscarfs, but unless you can prove that it is

a)A concept continued by men, and only men
b)Something that all Muslims dislike

Then you are on sketchy ground.

Just to cover my first post in more detail, the people who are trying to find reasons to justify this assault ('cos they were assaulted or don't like aspects of Islam) are forcing an unnecessary amount of attention upon a piece of clothing that you seem to claim is unimportant. If it is so unimportant, then why is it an issue TO YOU that they choose to dress that way. Seriously, I'm going to just ask the question.

If you are opposed to people telling women how to dress then how can you justify telling them how not to dress, and by extension, actually tell them how to dress?

Seriously, it's circular logic. I hate people that force women to dress a certain way, so I am going to force you to dress MY way.

And before anyone says "yeah but so and so country does it, so why shouldn't we?". No, just no. Either you dislike Iran and Saudi Arabia's policies or you don't. If you want to rip headscarfs off people then you are no better than the aforementioned countries.

If headscarfs and freedom of religion make you uneasy then deal with it. That is western culture- You have the ability to dress and act as you please, within the law. If you'd like to limit those powers of expression then please post below. I'm all ears (um eyes).

As for One Bar saying that I'm being selective. Adding "mathematical fact" to a post doesn't make it a fact. Source your information that suggest that women in BRITAIN are all forced to wear headscarfs then it is a fact. Source your information with hard numbers then it is a mathematical fact, otherwise you are just stating your opinion (as am I, fyi).




(Edited by Sarcastic Dots)
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One Bar
(Post deleted by One Bar 12 years ago)
RahGuzaR
RahGuzaR: One Bar please stop saying again n again that muslim men make their woman wear hijab.

Its religious dress code for woman to cover her head whether they like it or not and whether anyone in west like it or not.
and please dont tell me that its insane cuz christanity tells you to do same but you guys have stoped following ur religious dress code like those muslim woman who do not wear it.

All you have to do is pick a Bible and read it !!
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Lora123
Lora123: Won't you be surprised when you get to your afterlife and find that the seventy virgins you were expecting are all guys.

After all, I'm sure that heaven for muslim women is a place without muslim men.
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One Bar
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: @Rah, your not getting that women have their own minds and that religion is man made concept ,women are not property they are human beings and if they choose to wear or not to wear headscarf it is their CHOICE, if your God is so great and good it would allow women to have their own free will, religious dress code where women have no choice please it seems that its always women who have no choice compared to the men, strange that!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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One Bar
(Post deleted by One Bar 12 years ago)
jayhaywalker
jayhaywalker: Yep exactly. Religion is a man made concept, for those idiotic scumbags who need to be told how to live on earth. Fair enough, there are many idiots. Too bad muslims didnt invent an underwear made of metal with a lock and key.
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: I guess when you have unquestionable belief in something and want to live your life according to that belief then you think that is the right way. I think to say its a Western complaint is ignorant as there are Muslim people who don't belief in the absolute in the Koran and Sharia law. For me how can one say faithful to a book written in another century when it is obvious not compatibly for modern times, women in most cultures were consider inferior thats why on the whole many part of the Bible and the Koran have alot of sexism, homophobia.and basic logic would conclude that these books reflected the era they were conceived in. I hope that Muslim women in any nation who wish not to wear headscarf have the right to exercise their basic humanity of control of ones body and mind.
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cuarl
cuarl: Religious people are not Idiots. We must respect each others choices in life. I like potato, you like rice. You can not call me an idiot for it, that would be stupid if anything.

But the respect must go two ways and in my opinion that is where some Islam countries has failed and make people "Islamophobiacs"
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Sarcastic Dots
Sarcastic Dots: "But the respect must go two ways and in my opinion that is where some Islam countries has failed and make people "Islamophobiacs"

Sure, I don't deny that. I don't deny that Saudi Arabia, Iran and several other countries have contributed to the negative perceptions of Islam, but I tend to separate religion from country. You know, if a criticize Israel or Iran I tend to base it upon their policies, dependant or independent of religion. Maybe that's why I'm seeing this differently to other people... I'm viewing Britian as a secular society that couldn't care less about religion, as long as it has no baring on the country's policies. This is something that happened in Britain, to a British citizen by a British citizen.

It's acceptable to implement controls on dress in public offices, but I am totally adverse to telling citizens how to dress in private. I'm not going to budge on that issue at all.
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One Bar
(Post deleted by One Bar 12 years ago)
Sarcastic Dots
Sarcastic Dots: The religious thing. I'm not a muslim, so I don't really know or care. However, you don't really have to wear a cross when you're a Christian, so religious symbolism isn't an easy thing to define. For security reasons, the hijab is seen in a far more negative light than other religious paraphernalia because, well, it covers your face.

From a humanist perspective, at least where feminism is concerned, you are still assuming she was forced to wear the hijab, which is a pretty big assumption. Maybe she was/is forced to where an item of clothing and maybe she isn't, but neither of us will know unless she says otherwise.
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Sarcastic Dots
Sarcastic Dots: The religious thing. I'm not a muslim, so I don't really know or care. However, you don't really have to wear a cross when you're a Christian, so religious symbolism isn't an easy thing to define. For security reasons, the hijab is seen in a far more negative light than other religious paraphernalia because, well, it covers your face.

From a humanist perspective, at least where feminism is concerned, you are still assuming she was forced to wear the hijab, which is a pretty big assumption. Maybe she was forced to wear an item of clothing and maybe she wasn't, but neither of us will know unless she says otherwise.
(Edited by Sarcastic Dots)
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Lora123
Lora123: Quoting One Bar: "Btw, they all allow their wives/girlfriends to dress how they like, and their wives/girlfriends don't wear burkas. There again, all my Muslim friends are very Westernised."

That doesn't sound very "westernized" to me. They "allow" their wives/girlfriends to dress how they like. If they were truly "westernized", then they would not feel that they had the authority to "allow" the women in their lives to dress how they like. My mother did not need my father's permission to dress however she wanted. And if she ever thought that he felt he had that authority, she would have explained reality to him by packing him a bag and sending him to live somewhere else until he realized his mistake.

Tell me, do the women in these westernized Muslim couples allow the men in their lives to dress how ever they want?

No adult woman needs any man's permission to choose how she dresses. If a man doesn't like the way his girlfriend dresses, then he has one option... look for another girlfriend.
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One Bar
(Post deleted by One Bar 12 years ago)
slasian
slasian: so what every one is attacking every one now a days whether its for some f&*%n Arabs dressing code or for some sick oil seekers personal agenda? so what? we are in an endless attacks
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