China the sleeping dragon? (Page 3)

Paulo
Paulo: Fact...2 planes hit the Towers!
Doubt...never saw the plane that hit Pent. ....all image from (some fragments)cameras show something just like a missile......even the damage on building seems like a missile damage...never a plane....where is it!??
Doubt...first 3 sky scrp.buildings falling down totally in all world in consequence of impacts and fire...all in the same day...in the same City!
Doubt...why there was no Military plane to intercept those planes....yes good question....

....I have lots of doubts...lots!!!
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Paulo my friend,

All this has been rehashed, over and over and over and over and if there was a shred of hard physical evidence, I guess Bush and Cheney have it in their basements. Other than that, it's a dead topic. I guess you also believe that the moon landing never took place either.

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Paulo
Paulo: ....I never would belive that a Democracy would make Radiation Experiments on Humans several times during Decades(without consent)...wow they did!??

...I never would belive that a Democracy would make Biological Experiments on Humans even children....wow they did!??

...they didnt know .....the Public didnt know....but Govs did!!!..."ring a bell"

....I should not care about U.S. but I care about Americans right to all proof (like surv. cameras videos....they exist ...from Hotels and roads near Pent. and twin Towers)....and all the other things that are missing from that 9/11 tragedy!!!!....Maybe I change my opinion then...I saw lots of Docs about both sides opinions...but I need more evidences !!!
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StuckInTheSixties
StuckInTheSixties: Paulo, you're no better with "facts" and "doubts" in your 9/11 commentary.

Paulo says:
"Doubt...never saw the plane that hit Pent."

Fact: At the time Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, there was some bad traffic congestion on Virginia State Route 27, a large freeway adjacent to the Pentagon. There were hundreds, if not thousands of autos sitting bumper-to-bumper on that freeway next to the Pentagon. Flight 77, on it's final approach, skimmed low over the ground right over the heads of hundreds of those motorists that witnessed the event.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Paulo,

When you find the evidence, please contact me. I'll be happy to listen but until then, it's a closed topic for me.

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Paulo
Paulo: So where are the pics Mr Six....or videos.....if there where so many persons thats unusual no pic from a plane turning flying very low from more than a mile!!!?????????....thats very odd!!!show me those pics.....there are persons that only heard a whistle sound and even looking didnt saw any plane just an explosion....
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Paulo,

Would you please find something out for me please?

If as you say, no plane hit the Pentagon, where did the actual plane disappear too? The flight took off and there is no question about that. Is there any evidence on where the plane went? Where did the passengers disapperar to? Where are the pilots? They left the air traffic control screen so where is that plane? It had to land or crash somewhere. I have never heard any theories about this possibilty. Why is that? Anywhay, have fun researching my questions.

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StuckInTheSixties
StuckInTheSixties: Sigh ...

Why am I bothering?

Paulo, how many pictures were there of the FIRST plane to hit the World Trade Center in New York?

One.

And that only happened by luck. A French (I think French) video crew was making a documentary there in New York. They happened to be out on the street, with the video camera running, and by chance, the aircraft came flying directly over their heads. The cameraman instinctively turned his camera at the sound and barely captured the impact on tape.

And that was with an aircraft flying fairly high over the largest city in the USA, in broad daylight. So why was this captured by only one camera?

Simple. There was no reason for any cameras to be pointed up in the air where that plane was. The one camera just was lucky to be in the right place at the right time.

Of course, there were MANY cameras aimed at the WTC that captured the impact of the second aircraft, for obvious reasons.

Flight 77 came in very low, barely over the ground, at full speed, about 500 miles per hour. There are trees all around, on both sides of the freeway. (Use the satellite view in Google Maps if you want to see this for yourself.) The motorists sitting there could not see the plane approaching, nor hear it, until it roared over their heads and into the Pentagon. There might have been one or two seconds, at most, for this to happen.

Quick! Paulo! Get your camera out and shoot a picture! You only have two seconds!!!! ... Oh ... you missed it!

Just as they did. But they saw it with their eyes.

Why was there only that one blurry video image? Because that image was made with a parking lot surveillance camera. Cameras of this sort are not made to take nice, crisp images. They are made to shoot over a parking lot, for many long hours at a time, and to do so cheaply.

The aircraft, traveling as fast as it was, made nothing but a blur in that camera's video. Why would anyone expect anything else?
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Paulo
Paulo: ....good question!???....yes for the first time since Aviation started 4 big commercial planes crushed and the amount of debris(from them) was so small (comparing to lots of similar colisions with soil and buildings)that even a truck could transport them but some passports from terrorists against all odds "survived" ........ thats amazing another coincidence.....I dont even ask how they learn to pilot those planes....not small planes....theres a huge....huge difference!!!!.....
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "45% of U.S. oil comes from Middle East+Africa.....and almost 20% from Venezuela....(another friend).....only 17% from Canada(very hard and expensive to refine)……."

I don't know where you get your facts from…if anywhere; but the United States Energy Information Administration/Department of Energy has the statistics that state otherwise. Canada is the number one import for US oil; by over twice that of the second highest (Saudi Arabia). In fact, Venezuela imported only 35.7% of what Canada has so far in 2011. Like I said; the US gets the vast majority of it's oil from within North America.


http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/
company_level_imports/current/import.html


"plus dont forget that China owns most of U.S. Debt(giant one).....plus most U.S. products are made in China and label by U.S. Trade Marks……."

And what happens to a debt that is owed to an enemy country in a time of war? It never gets paid back. If China and the US ended up in war; it would spell disaster for China as well. The US would forget paying that debt; and the Trading With The Enemy Act would ensure that no Chinese products came into the US. We can live without Barbie Dolls; China cannot live without an economy.


"As of September 2009, the USA possessed 5,113 warheads operationally deployed."

And SITS you can bet that the remaining 5000+ that have been disabled are still there able to be reassembled if need be.

"everybody knows 20 or 50 bombs are enough to turn life in the Planet almost impossible....so whats your point!!????"

The US has nuclear powered submarine armed with enough nuclear arms to engage 1/4 of the Earth's surface. Their Navy says they have four in service; deployed routinely across both the Atlantic and Pacific Ocean at any given time. How long you think it would take them to destroy anyone serious about using nuclear arms? They're already in range of China thanks to North Korea.

"Paulo, you don't get it- you cannot win a nuclear war, and China, as does most of the world, knows this. China has an immense number of contracts from the West, and frankly, if they went to war with the west, all these factories will shut down- is that in their best interest?"

Exactly; and that's why China is not dumb enough to try anything directly against the US. The bigger threat is in the business partners of China; like North Korea and Iran; and what they will force China to do.

"like Einstein said....on 4 WW WE Will THROW ROCKS!!!"

He said "I know not what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones." -Einstein.

"…..even the small radiation contained in bombs and missiles its causing lots of problems in War zones populations Worldwide!!"

Many common modern nuclear weapons are thermonuclear; and are designed to dissolve radiation almost immediately. This way they can send in troops without fearing radiation poisoning. The damage suffered at Pripyat and Hiroshima/Nagasaki would not be the same as today.

"just want some persons to think about the real danger of Nuclear Weapons...just that!!"

The entire world is well aware of the threat…and that's why even China, number one ally to North Korea turned against them while they were attacking the South and threatening nuclear war. China isn't stupid.
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "Fact…2 planes hit the Towers!
Doubt...never saw the plane that hit Pent. ....all image from (some fragments)cameras show something just like a missile......even the damage on building seems like a missile damage...never a plane....where is it!??"

Fact, hundreds of eye witnesses saw an airliner hit the pentagon. ZERO saw a missile hit.

Fact, the video footage is blurry and hard to distinguish; but still images from this footage show the EXACT colour patterns as the American Airlines jet that hundreds of witnesses saw hit the pentagon.

Fact; the damage is inconsistent with any form of explosive (ie a missile) and 100% consistent with that of the American Airlines jet that hundreds of eyewitnesses saw hit the pentagon.

Fact; DNA was recovered from all but one passenger (an infant) on board at the site of the pentagon crash; and photographs are available of the bodies recovered on site; you just have to look for them. I warn you they are fairly gruesome.

"Doubt…first 3 sky scrp.buildings falling down totally in all world in consequence of impacts and fire...all in the same day...in the same City!"

Fact; several steel structures have collapsed due to fire alone. The myth that the WTC was the first was a necessity in keeping mindless people on the internet believing a hoax that has been selling millions of dollars worth of books and movies to gullible fools. Again; the information on the buildings; the dates they fell, from fire; are all available online. Just go look.

"Doubt…why there was no Military plane to intercept those planes....yes good question…."

Fact; there was a squadron of F16 Fighting Falcon interceptors launched and over the towers within the time in which NORAD is capable of responding. The myth that there was a stand down; and the 'evidence' presented from one 'oh so credible' "Loose Change" about the time in which NORAD could respond was based on a computer simulation; in other words; a fricking video game, and based on intercepting confirmed enemy bomber craft, not airliners which up until that day; NORAD was not allowed to intercept without confirmation from both the airline company; and the airliner itself, all needed for the air traffic controller to make the call to NORAD.

"….I have lots of doubts…lots!!!"

Because you haven't bothered to find out the truth.

This topic has been discussed…to death…and if you want to continue on with it I suggest you go read the previous threads; do a little research; then come back and post in the appropriate thread.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

RE: Pentagon....All the evidence on the ground caused by the low flying incoming plane causing twisted metal and damage by the "planes wingspan" hitting light poles, trees, a electric generator, were all consistent with damage caused by the "wingspan of a plane" and not a missile. Evidence supports this fact.

Ok...enough.

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Paulo
Paulo: .....and the Pentag. cameras.....hahahaha....they had dozens....LMAO....and the Streets /roads cameras.....and the videos from one Hotel that employes say Cia took some time after the "plane " hit Pent........and dont forget persons and even some TVS where pointing Pentagon as next target after.....not surprise like first on tower!!!!!....I just ask for those tapes....nothing more.....they exist cause cameras were there....so!!??????
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FogofWar
FogofWar: "Doubt…never saw the plane that hit Pent. ....all image from (some fragments)cameras show something just like a missile…"



"…even the damage on building seems like a missile damage…"


"…never a plane....where is it!??"

See first video again…or perhaps you would like to listen to the 136 eyewitnesses that testified?



...just thought I'd give you a head start on your researching.
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StuckInTheSixties
StuckInTheSixties: He ain't gonna research anything.
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FogofWar
FogofWar: Again Paulo, go do some research, and them come back and present your claims. I would hate for you to look like an ignorant fool.
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FogofWar
FogofWar: I do have one question for you Paulo. If it was in fact a missile that hit the pentagon; why did civilian workers recover landing gear from the Pentagon crash site? :O
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Paulo
Paulo: ......Fog of War......but you think you would stop any wave of nuke missiles ....if you as you said cant stop 4 planes of traveling and hit their targets ...thats hilarious!!!(sorry not laughing of the victims)....do you think Chinese or Russians are dumb!!???...or that they dont have the Tech......you saw what their Gov.hackers can do with American Gov sites!!!.....you dont get it do you!!!????

.....its nice to have some guerilla(my style)...of arguments!!!
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Paulo
Paulo: Lol....I own dozens of docs about it ...pro and agaist.....I saw all those videos...lol....
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FogofWar
FogofWar: Stopping nuclear missiles is far from civilian airliners…and yes we have technology to handle such a nuclear response.

Do you really think that the Air Force is going to shoot down a civilian airliner on the assumption that it might do something? Seriously; on September 10, 2001; if I would have told you I was going to hijack an airliner and kamikaze the WTC, would you not have thought I was insane? 100% of airliner hijackings prior to 9/11 ended with the hijackers landing the planes. What would possibly make someone assume otherwise this one time? Face it; no one; not NORAD; and not even you, knew what was going to happen; or could prepare for it. US fighter pilots were flying over the WTC as the second plane hit; they didn't have the means to do anything.

You see there are different threats in the sky; and that means different armament (for example; a Tupolev bomber is not agile; so long range self-homing missiles can strike with ease); whereas MiG29s are super agile; and short range heat seeking missiles are required. You cannot fit 60 missiles on a plane like in Ace Combat. You have to choose. Aircraft aren't 100% armed when on standby. They wait until they know what the threat is; then arm to deal with it.

By the time NORAD was given the okay to engage; the first tower was almost struck. They made the call; based on 100% of hijackings in the past; to send up an element of four F16s unarmed; thinking they would scare the hijackers into landing for fear of being shot down. They didn't know the hijackers were intending to die anyways; and would ignore them.

When a missile gets launched; NORAD doesn't need permission from an airline company and an air traffic controller to engage. Chances are the nuclear missile isn't just gonna go for a joyride. The US Navy and US Air Force also has some pretty neat jamming devices to short out those missile's radar from 100 miles away. By the time it was over the ocean; it would be on its way to the bottom of it. If you want to deal a nuclear strike on a nation with an advanced military; you have to get in close; real close, and strike from within range for them to hurt you.

Do you think China is going to launch nukes at the US in hopes they make it; fully knowing that the US is ready to retaliate; and strike China before they even strike the US?

Yes, China has the capability of hurting the US….but they sure aren't going to put themselves in a position that will guarantee their assured destruction in the hopes of hurting the US. China has too much to loose…just like the US has too much to lose by attacking China.

"….do you think Chinese or Russians are dumb!!???.."

No, but apparently you seem to.
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Paulo
Paulo: Fog....you have good points there.....but that dont shades the fact U.S.Defence failed....

.....you know ....that Patriot missiles are not so good....maybe good to stop old scuds....not modern nuke missiles...

....about submarines near China borders ready to strike ....even after...you know maybe they could stop 40% (you know better than me)or more but once on the air......you would have a problem...

.....and Chinese have about 10 Nuke Subs (and maybe more conventional adapted to transport nukes too) near US....dont forget that!!!
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FogofWar
FogofWar: Yes; and China never failed militarily either hey?


Mistakes happen. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be prepared 100% of the time. That is war pal; and of the two; I am far more experienced.

The object of war is to compel our enemy to do our will. It is a game of force; each side trying to push the other. This means constant evolution. This means adapting to new things to beat our enemy where he is not prepared:

"All warfare is based on deception."

-Sun Tzu



You think the US is relying on old Patriot missiles?

FYI, all the cool new and futuristic weapons you see on TV like shows such as "Future Weapons"; are like 20 years old. You have absolutely NO idea of the weapons that are out there pal….NO idea.

You know Britain is in the middle of developing an invisible tank?


"…about submarines near China borders ready to strike ....even after...you know maybe they could stop 40% (you know better than me)or more but once on the air......you would have a problem…"

Smart bombs aren't all that smart. They fly in a straight line; even when shot at. It isn't difficult to drop a cruise missile out of the sky. You NEED to defend it. You need to either escort it with your own aircraft; not advised….or fire it from within a range in which the enemy will not have time to respond. Radar jamming doesn't just jam up some of their radar; it jams it all. Every missile.

"…..and Chinese have about 10 Nuke Subs (and maybe more conventional adapted to transport nukes too) near US....dont forget that!!!"

Coastal waterlines lay far enough out to allow adequate defence. The US Coast Guard and the US Navy routinely patrol the waters in which China would need to get to effectively strike. To enter this water is illegal without consent. If China did so; they would be committing international war crimes. Sorry pal; they aren't. China is not in range to strike the US without severe retaliation….and the US is in the same boat. Neither will resort to nuclear war. No conventional military will. It is a last resort; to save your nation from extinction in the event of a mass holocaust.
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Albert_Fishsticks
Albert_Fishsticks: And....so what?! If China becomes the dominant superpower, dethroning the US?! Your implying that everything is going great under the current number one super power the US. The same super power that has plunged the rest of the world into war, a war that has lasted 10 years!!!

How could things possibly become any worse if China becomes a new super power? The whole thing reeks of jingoism and xenophobia. Get a grip!

I for one, welcome our new communist overlords.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

So Albert, you don't like the foreign policy direction Obama is taking the US?

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FogofWar
FogofWar: The US didn't plunge the rest of the world into war. The 'war' that has lasted 10 years for us has been raging for 40 years to them. The US didn't start anything in the Middle East; they spread it out to the rest of the world.
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