U.S. Bridges and Roads being built by Chinese firms and Chinese workers (Page 5)

Comrade_
Comrade_: On a side note, The Rhino horns as medicines are ban in China since 1993 I think and it is illegal. As for sweat shops I think hits more home than you think, OCD.

http://www.dosomething.org/tipsandtools/background-sweatshops
Note the headings: Sweatshops in the U.S. & U.S. companies with ties to sweatshops.

Sweatshops are not only in China or the US. Should we stop trading with specific countries based on that? No you stop trading with individual companies that do it. That way you show that you're not supporting it. Understand now?
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: Jack, sweat shops do not happen in a vacuum. They exist because the country allows it. Understand now?
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Comrade_
Comrade_: So the US, Europe, South America allow their sweat shops?
They exist because of the demand, no country 'allows' it. You have your brand and you don't for a second think how those parts come about. I suggest you read the information on the site and if you don't wish to click the link then here are some points:

"Many U.S. retailers have ties to sweatshops, which are usually foreign owned and operated.

Wal-Mart, JC Penney, Sears, The May Company and Federated Department are five U.S. Corporations that rely on sweatshop labor.
The May Company owns and operates Lord & Taylor, Hecht’s, Filene’s and other companies.
The Federated Department owns and operates Bloomingdale’s, Macy’s, Burdine’s, Stern’s, etc.
Guess? Clothing Co. is one of the worse offenders according to the Department of Labor. They have been cited for labor abuses and are suspended indefinitely from the Department of Labor’s list of “good guys” because their contractors were cited for so many sweatshop violations.”

Then there are those companies who set up operations overseas to get around U.S. labor laws. Nike, Disney, Wal-Mart, Reebok, Phillips-Van Heusen, the Gap, Liz Claiborne and Ralph Lauren are some companies that have set up operations overseas. These companies get away with exploiting workers because the Department of Labor only requires that companies have “internal monitoring policies.” Therefore there is no way of knowing whether companies are telling the truth or not. Companies like Nike pay private accounting firms to come into their factories and assess the working conditions as “independent” monitors.” Even when these companies are caught infringing on workers rights they don’t receive harsh punishment."
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: It exists because the countries allow it. I never said that U.S. companies did not use slave labor. They have slave labor (under our definition) in other countries and those companies take advantage of it. They can't take advantage of something if the host country does not allow it, Jack.
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Comrade_
Comrade_:
How do I explain the difference between company and country? Slow to comment OCD, read slowly.
Sweatshops are sweatshops regardless of the country/government. The companies who support sweatshops should be dealt with by a case by case basis and not grouped into a 'country'.
There are sweatshops in the US, Europe, South America and Asia. <--Physical locations.
But with Globalisation there's no need for physical location, a US company can have a sweatshop in Asia (as the case with Nike). Do you understand now, why the focus should be on these specific companies and not an entire country/government?
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Jack, I disagree. Countries exist. What happens inside their borders are their responsibility.
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: The focus should be on the company AND the host government. Again, it could not exist without the government's acceptance. I'm going to make this short so it is easier for you to understand, Jack.
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Comrade_
Comrade_: Davidk you can disagree, Globalisation & Free-trade exist. What happens within a company should be the company's responsibility to burden. Hence when a sweatshop is found we look at the company.
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Comrade_
Comrade_: It exist in your country, OCD. Are you forgetting this? Then we should use your same line of reasoning of blaming a country then. ok, cool.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Jack, I disagree again. I do not believe in globalization like you do. Free trade does exist and that's the way it should be.

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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: You're forgetting one thing, Jack. It is illegal here. Any "sweatshops" that exist in the U.S. are doing so illegally.
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Comrade_
Comrade_: Yes globalisation is a mythical creature. I'm sure it doesn't exist if you disbelieve it.

Anyways back to Serabi, you can look into the company Serabi and assert whether it is a reputable company or not. That can be said about any company regardless of the country they belong to. (that was to Serabi, just in case anyone else thought it was aimed at them)
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Comrade_
Comrade_: And so your companies expand to where it is "legal"? I should buy from these US companies that use sweatshops, simply because the sweatshops weren't physically located in the US but supported by that company? Do all companies in Asia run on sweatshops?

...how can these simple thoughts be so complicated.

Sorry to disappoint you both but case-by-case is the smarter way, each company will have to answer to themselves regardless of their location.
(Edited by Comrade_)
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Nice try dodging the globalization question. If as you would like to see the world globalized yet democratic, of the 7 billion human beings on the planet, 1 billion live in communist China and another billion are Muslim. Hum....so about 30% of the voting block is either communist or Muslim. You better convert and start speaking Chinese.

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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: Stop putting words in my mouth that aren't there, Jack. I didn't say that we should buy from, or accept, US companies who have questionable employment practices at their factories in other countries.
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Comrade_
Comrade_: Davidk- A question has a question mark, Davidk, you posted no question on Globalization or anything for me to answer/dodge.
Now you're straying from the topic with useless things, go research what Globalization mean, not on what you believe it to be.

OCD- Your words are alredy there, I don't care about the country I focus on the company. Nothing is black and white but looking at it by a case by case perspective will make things black and white. You assume that because a company is from a certain country that is is reputable.
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: "You assume that because a company is from a certain country that is(it) is reputable"

Jack, again, you are attempting to put words in my mouth. I never said that, did I?
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Jack,

Is this your understanding of 'Globalization"?



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Stanford University, California

“…sharp differences continue to separate participants in the ongoing debate, most contemporary social theorists endorse the view that globalization refers to fundamental changes in the spatial and temporal contours of social existence, according to which the significance of space or territory undergoes shifts in the face of a no less dramatic acceleration in the temporal structure of crucial forms of human activity.”

“…social theorists have moved beyond the relatively underdeveloped character of previous reflections on the compression or annihilation of space to offer a rigorous conception of globalization. To be sure, major disagreements remain about the precise nature of the causal forces behind globalization, with David Harvey (1989 1996) building directly on Marx's pioneering explanation of globalization, while others (Giddens 19990; Held, McGrew, Goldblatt & Perraton 1999) question the exclusive focus on economic factors characteristic of the Marxist approach.
Nonetheless, a consensus about the basic rudiments of the concept of globalization appears to be emerging.”

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/globalization/


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Comrade_
Comrade_: Note that Globalization in this context is based on free-trade and capitalism, so use a bit of common sense on it, I'll get the definition in this context for you k.

"Globalization refers to the growing interdependence of countries resulting from the increasing integration of trade, finance, people and ideas in one global marketplace. International trade and cross-border investment flows are the main elements of this integration."

-http://www.worldbank.org/depweb/beyond/beyondco/beg_12.pdf To read more on Globalization.


A company is not closed to one geographical location, some have their operation abroad. It is the same company regardless of which 'country' they are in. Take your time to peruse the site I posted on sweat-shops. I still maintain that companies should be held liable regardless of their location.
(Edited by Comrade_)
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OCD_OCD
OCD_OCD: Then use your words to say it, Jack. Don't make up things for me to "say" that I don't.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Jack said:

Note that Globalization in this context is based on free-trade and capitalism,

David responds:

Oh...you don't want or think that Globalization should be based on free-trade and capitalism?




Jack said:

I still maintain that companies should be held liable regardless of their location.

David responds: Ok..Great! According to who's regulations and laws?

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Comrade_
Comrade_: Use my words to say what? Should I get a definition of every word, I think seeing a word in a specific context will make things clear to understand...
I said Globalization and free-trade, Davidk goes off with communism and religion. How is that leap possible..but ok I'll define each word.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Jack, you're just note being clear in your thoughts. You make a statement like companies should be held liable regardless of location and in the same breath, you use the word globalization which leads to, by whose regulations and laws do you hold the company liable? Not hard to understand.

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Comrade_
Comrade_:
David responds:

Oh...you don't want or think that Globalization should be based on free-trade and capitalism?

-hmm what is your point there, I don't know what you're trying to get at since the only thing you mentioned on Globalization was some communist stuff and a copy & paste definition...If you care to expand on your question then I'd answer it.

David responds: Ok..Great! According to who's regulations and laws?

-To their original country's laws. If the US Government can pose restrictions on companies then these companies should (or is to) abide by their country of origin's guidelines, no? These companies use the system while you sit bickering over which country is to blame.

Brings back the original point of this convo which was Serabi's moral dilemma. Not to look at the country/government but on the company itself.
(Edited by Comrade_)
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davidk14
davidk14: .

So in reverse...

To their original country's laws. If the Chinese Government can pose restrictions on companies then these companies should (or is to) abide by their country of origin's guidelines, no? These companies use the system while you sit bickering over which country is to blame.

So, a Chinese company does not have to follow the US guidelines of labor or workplace ethics since it is following it's own governments guidelines. Yes?



Now back to the original post.

A company will follow the rules and regulations that it is operating in. In the US, a food company must follow USDA guidelines and be certified to operate according to established guidelines.

Any company from another country must also do the same to operate in the US. If not, for example, the Chinese food company that allows carcinogens in their food in China would also do so in the US. That is not acceptable. It is the country that the company operates in that is held responsible to the rules and regulations.

This is also the same for imports. You either follow our guidelines or you do not do business here. The reason many US companies love to do business in for example China, the rules and regulations for American companies are the same as for Chinese companies. They have very few regulations and American companies can make boodles of cash from cheep labor and other lax regulations such as environmental considerations.

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