Alcoholics Anonymous (Page 2)

Craiger K
(Post deleted by staff 11 years ago)
Craiger K
(Post deleted by staff 11 years ago)
LiptonCambell
LiptonCambell: >>>A higher power is whatever you choose it to be.

A higher power is not your cock or a doorknob. Even your link(oddly enough, you didn't seem to notice Wikipedia also seems to think "higher power" denotes a religious deity), it admits;

"It is also sometimes referred to as a power greater than ourselves"

Your cock is greater than yourself? A doorknob is greater than yourself?

Again, if someone were to take that kind of attitude in a state-mandated AA class, they wouldn't get the slip signature- and instead, be sent to prison.

Basically, though, my criticism is clear; Higher Power denotes a Deity. AA doesn't use the word "higher power" to mean your slippers or your Dog Rex or anything in the world- it has a very literal meaning, and to tell people that we should play make belief and pretend a word that has a literal meaning doesn't in fact means anything and everything at all is incredibly disrespectful.

>>>if you don't like it, don't go.

First off, I don't. I don't have an alcohol problem, I haven't ever in my life had a run-in with the law, alcohol or otherwise, and while I do acknowledge that there are people in need of help, I do not see AA as the solution to their problem.

Secondly, and I think i've said this before- my problem is there are people who CANNOT CHOOSE not to go.

>>>Many in A.A. hate the fact that the court system sees fit in handing over their whiny ass sniveling drunks to A.A. to babysit.

Excellent! That we can agree with- AA is better as a private organization than as a federal program to cure alcoholism.

>>> If the group you are attending doesnt meet your fancy then try another one.

My problem isn't with any individual group, but the tenets, and more specifically the 12 steps in conjunction with them being upheld by the state.

If AA wasn't mandated by the state, I wouldn't have any issue whatsoever...

>>>Copy and paste your form, i would like to see it.

Again, I do not attend AA, nor have I been in trouble with the law because of my drinking.

I am simply criticizing the organization- and the "slip" information came from the same website previously posted by OCD OCD

>>>Lastly, if the meetings are that much of a drag on you then stop being such a whiny little sally boy and man up and go do the jail time.

Would you be so careless with peoples beliefs if it was your own that was being assaulted? Would you have no problem if the government told you to join a organization demanding you to renounce your faith, or go to jail?

>>>The bottom line is is that to the people that use A.A. to establish and maintain their sobriety you are just an unwanted distraction

That doesn't make my position any less valid. It is not the governments role to dictate peoples religious stances- and AA is an organization that dictates peoples religious stances.

>>>Another thing, the Court did not send you there. YOU sent you there.

Wow, you're just full of hate, aren't you? I can't object to a religious organization being associated with government without being a victim ?

>>> All the court did was offer you a way to not let that happen again (if you are willing) and possibly save another family from having their little son or daughter (like the one in your avatar) from being taken away from them by a drunk by taking advantage of a program that was designed to do nothing more than to help people who have no other place to go.

You are making alot of assumptions Thirdles. I suggest you step back before your hurt yourself, because you seem to think I cannot criticize something without being a victim of it...
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bri
bri: AA is for quitters

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Aura
Aura: So, basically there is a need for 'AAA' that would be "Athiest Alcoholics Anonymous". A free program, either run by the state, or by a human rights group or something, that could be court mandated for those who do not believe in a higher power. But, as far as we know, that doesn't exist because the organisations who use science instead of faith all seem to ask a fee. Meaning: broke athiest have little to no choice but to accept, or act like they accept, a riligion. Like you say, they have no choice, no where to go, but jail, or the unemployment line, or a shelter etc. Well, if they have no where to go, and the courts stop accepting AA as a solution, that is still where they'd be. If AA is no longer an option it's the courts that have no choice but to give jailtime.
With or without religion, there is a trait people in need will have to develope, tollerance and humility. Because as it turns out, it is the people of faith holding out a free hand. They are told by their higher power that this is what 'good' humans do. Those who do not believe in a higher power think "Hey, I am putting in my time and money, you better pay me for it."
And you know they have the right to do that.
Or, if we go the state run way, everyone has to pay for it, in the form of taxes. They are already fed up with taxes. And then we'd be in a forum called "why should I pay for your alcoholism treatment."
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Stassi SUR
(Post deleted by Stassi SUR 11 years ago)
Craiger K
(Post deleted by staff 11 years ago)
the real slim DEEPy
the real slim DEEPy: i think that ocd is correct, that aa is ofered as one of seveal options, and it is often chosen over a "scientific" rehap program because aa is free and rehab is like $20,000.
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southern77
southern77: so god shouldnt be forced upon someone in AA...

well ive always found it odd that when so many do go to jail or prison they sure do find "god" real fast in hopes to gain some sympathy with the courts...

so many try and play both sides of that coin
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Craiger K
(Post deleted by staff 11 years ago)
southern77
southern77: try telling that to the parole or probation officer that says the court ordered you to attend however many hours... sometimes in the hundreds...

and if you dont follow ALL 12 steps you arent doing your AA in accordence with thier policies...so guess what pallie is back to the can for you...

but i guess the good part is while that person gets revoked back to jail/prison they can always attend those "church services" while they are home... cause we all know as soon as they do make the streets they will forget all about that god they found while incarcerated
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Craiger K
(Post deleted by staff 11 years ago)
southern77
southern77: well it is a requirement for people that got a dui/dwi here along with other fines and community service... as far as no one at an AA meeting required to sign any paper saying if anyone was at any one meeting... thats a big no-no just look at the name Anonymous... so there lies the rub... what is a person to do???

damn glad ive never had one...
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Craiger K
(Post deleted by staff 11 years ago)
southern77
southern77: dude... your siging to the choir... its a stupid part of any court-ordered sentence because there is no way to enforce it
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Craiger K
(Post deleted by staff 11 years ago)
southern77
southern77: you can go to any meeting nation wide... remember the word anonymous
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Craiger K
(Post deleted by staff 11 years ago)
southern77
southern77: yes it is... its in their by-laws
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Craiger K
(Post deleted by staff 11 years ago)
Craiger K
(Post deleted by staff 11 years ago)
southern77
southern77: if you are required to have so many signatures by the next time that you are due to see the parole/probation officer and you just happened to be on the road for work......
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Craiger K
(Post deleted by staff 11 years ago)
Craiger K
(Post deleted by staff 11 years ago)
southern77
southern77: ive read it from the beginning... and yes its always been part of there ways/bi-laws since they first started oh so many years ago.... but we can argue this till the end of time... you say no and i say yes...

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-spirrel.html
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