Another day, another shooting. Ho hum. When will NRA leadership step up to the plate? (Page 2)

Su Ni Chang: david...

So, are you insulting me personally? To me, that is a compliment. I have noticed that in America, most people born in the US only speak English...to know and conquer a language other than your first language is a compliment to most of the rest of the world...so thank you david

...but,

You still 'tounge and cheek' rather than fact check. If you are going to REFUTE someone else, it is best to rebutt with facts...and not your intepretation of facts. Please try not to personally attack me for your failure to effectivly communicate your opinions and views.

'Carol Chang' is not the topic of this thread.

David...you posted this statement...

"...In China, since 2011, 22 children have been slaughtered and 90 seriously injured inside or near schools. China has been discussing outlawing knives and cleavers of all types shortly..."

This is a direct cut and paste from your comment. In your responce you quoted sources you have not named to claim that 22 children have been slaughered in china 'in or near schools. Please quote your sources...not blogs, not politically biased attempts to divert from the topic, but credible news sources.

In your statment you stated that 'China has been discussing oulawing knives ans cleavers'. I dont see the 'tounge and cheek implication in your sentance...I see you trying to imply this is a fact. Notice the 'has been discussing' in your sentace?

So...tell us david, where do you find that in China, 22 children have been 'slaughered' since 2011, and where do you find that China has been discussing outlawing knives and cleavers'...

...or, did you make it up and IMPLY that it was factual?

Sarcastic Dots: The reasonable comments don't make the asinine bs less crazy. Even if I quoted it in its entirety, the absolutely stupid stuff would have still sticked out. You even asked what the right to work has to do with the debate and, again, it's a good question, because I have no idea - Do you?

I haven't heard one legitimate way to fix this problem from the conservative camp. It's the same old "Well if we had more guns it would stop other people with guns" motto that people keep religiously chanting. I mean, if people are seriously suggesting that guns in a school -on teachers- is the best way to protect someone from a lunatic then I have no idea what the solution will be when this inevitably happens again.

I mean, I discussed this in another topic, and I really don't understand why it's opposed: why are civilians allowed semi-automatic rifles?

I understand that it's an American's right to own a gun (no problems there), but really, there is absolutely no reason to possess certain kinds of guns for self-defence.

davidk14: .

Dots,

Then, every wacko comment that Joe Biden says almost on a daily basis "don't make the asinine be less crazy". Seriously.

Seriously, we are all fucked. It's not a left or right problem. It is a societal problem. These mass murders are happening in many countries in many cultures. For you or I to point fingers at politicians is nothing short of pointing fingers and saying it's "your fault". It's OUR fault. It's yours, mine, our next door neighbors. We have allowed our societies to go overboard. Can I state a few issues that have caused me to make these statements? Absolutely. But first, do you agree or disagree.

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davidk14: .

Dots,

Go to thread named

Conn. Elementary School Shooter

Page 13 where Serabi starts with

This was posted on Twitter.




The post is part of our conversation.

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Su Ni Chang: David....

Rome was brought down by...empire building becomeing more expensive, and taxing of resources than they could afford. This is what eventually happens to those who chose to 'colonise' other people, and places by destroying opposition.

The first weapon in 'colonisation' is to minimise the people the colonists want to destroy. To demonise thier way of life, thier religion, and the things that make them different than the colonists. The second thing is to undermine and replace thier social structure...especially those parts that distribute resources from the haves to the have nots by depriving, limiting, and destroying 'distrbution points'...in order to make them dependant on the colonists.

Rome was brought down by...reaching back for 'glory days'. In other words, looking back on thier 'grand culture' and trying to relive it by the things that made them great in the first place...colonisation'

In other words David...when you look back at America, and belive it was 'better 60 years ago', then you are on your way to a failed state...just like Rome.

Sarcastic Dots: "It's yours, mine, our next door neighbors. We have allowed our societies to go overboard"

In some ways, yes. In some ways, no. Violent content probably exacerbates the situation of someone who is already mentally ill, but I don't think it's an issue for people (the vast majority of people) that are able to separate fantasy from reality.Also, the most contentious subject is going to come from the diagnoses and availability of mental healthcare in order to identify the most dangerous members in society and ensure they are helped before they fall over a cliff into a situation that negatively involves other people. The ability for me --or anyone-- to see a mental health professional for no fee is far easier than the United States.

And, though there is a belief that socialised medicine would cause the government to drug up their population, the fact is, the largest consumers of prozac are Americans. Why? Because it's cheaper, faster and easier to hide than intensive talking therapy.

There are very clear similarities between Britain and America where the film, music and video game industry (so, in that respect, I can agree) are concerned. However, there are key differences to our societies handling of certain things to assume we'd come to an agreement on how to fix the situation. For one, you see it as your right to own a gun; I see it logical for guns to be illegal, including arming ordinary police officers. That's just a societal difference that neither of us are going to waver from.

davidk14: .

Hummm...perhaps Carol....perhaps....

Fifty years ago there was almost no diabetes....now it is one of the leading causes of death.

Fifty years ago natural pollination was much better than today where bees need to be brought in.

I can bring up thousands of topics that were better 50 years ago. I can also bring up numerous topics where improvements have been made in the last fifty years, especially in the medical field.

For you to make a blanket statement, "...In other words David...when you look back at America, and believe it was 'better 60 years ago', then you are on your way to a failed state...just like Rome."

I have always thought and believed, you learn from your mistakes. You learn from history.

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davidk14: .

Dots said:

For one, you see it as your right to own a gun; I see it logical for guns to be illegal, including arming ordinary police officers. That's just a societal difference that neither of us are going to waver from.



David responds:

If our police had no weapons, then the criminals would rule this country. There are no…ifs…ands....or buts…about it. I have been pointing out that in China, guns are not the tool of offense, it is knives.

My whole point is this….it is not the tool of death, it is why the tool of death is being used. Do we also ban propane tanks for the BBQ? Do we ban gasoline? Do we ban fertilizer? Do we ban swimming pools where more people die in one year than all the wars combined? (WHO Drownings 6.1% / War 2.8%) Do we ban swimming pools?

Unless someone is able to tell me how the "tool of death" is the reason for the death, then please, straighten me out.

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Sarcastic Dots: Guns are made to kill things - that's their intention. Nobody made the gun for an alternative use. All the things you listed were not created for the sole reason of killing another animal or human. Even with knives, they have uses that stretch far beyond the use of hunting or killing.

davidk14: .

Guns were made to replace knives and spears and bow and arrows and catapults.

So, if we want to get rid of the guns, then the criminals will have the guns...and we will be defending ourselves with knives, spears, arrows and perhaps....catapults.

The point also is...wouldn't we want to get rid of anything that is dangerous and has a history of killing....swimming pools kill. If was not the intention of the creator of swimming pools to create the dreaded murdering swimming pool, however, it does kill more human beings than guns that were designed to kill. Swimming pools have killed more people than war (WHO).

BAN THE SWIMMING POOL NOW!

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Su Ni Chang: So...

David....

You posted this...

Guns were made to replace knives and spears and bow and arrows and catapults.

So this means that you use a gun to cut your food?...lol

Sarcastic Dots: Well, I don't get the logic. Gun related homicides kill more Americans than foreign terrorists, so like, by your logic, dealing with terrorism is nowhere near as important as the stuff you listed... Like Swimming pools.

Su Ni Chang: Dots...

it means he cut his food with guns.

That is his logic. He doesnt seem to understand that although a bolt action, or shot gun, or hunting rifle is used to hunt, and replaces bows and spears...and it it isnt the same as a weapon specifically designed for warfare such as a siege engine (catipult) and a gun designed for combat.

davidk14: .

Carol is being silly....The answer to your question is....no. The wok was used as a helmet during the day, and used as a cooking device at night.



Dots, technically, you are correct.

However, just like terrorism and issues that affect 'us', it's not the tool, it is the reason the tool is used.

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Su Ni Chang: david...you posted this...

"...Carol is being silly....The answer to your question is....no. The wok was used as a helmet during the day, and used as a cooking device at night..."

Was that a personal attack on my ethnicity? Really david?

davidk14: ..

Are we talking about guns...or types of guns. Guns for target practice? Guns for home protection? Guns for police and military? What.

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davidk14: Carol,

Stop being so sensitive. I married outside my race and religion and my children were raised outside my religion as well. So if you are suggesting something...don't. I over looked your Juan comment, don't start with me on this. I will be happy to discuss this in private if you wish but trying to cloud this issue with another....not necessary.

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Su Ni Chang: David...

There are guns specifically designed for certian uses. Guns that replace spears and bows (instruments used for hunting) are designed for the purpose of hunting. Of course, they can be used to kill a human human being...but the point is, guns designed for hunting are not made for the sole purpose of killing other people...as is the case with knives.

There are guns designed for civilian law enforcement, and no one is complaining that a law enforcement officer, trained and confident in his weapon, and knowing when it is appropriate to use it shouldnt have a weapon designed for keeping the peace in a CIVILIAN population.

There are also guns designed specifically for competition as well.

However, you mentioned the catapult. This is a weapon used exclusively for war, and has been replaced by weapons such as an assault rifle. I dont understand why you cant make a distinction between the two types of weapons, other than it just destroys your arguement.

Su Ni Chang: lol...

I bet you use the old 'I have a Black friend' defence when confronted about your racist comments too.

davidk14: .

Carol,

I have not made a statement regarding my stance on types of weapons that should or should not be in the hands of the everyday citizen.

Swords and bows and arrows were used for hunting....but were also used for war.

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davidk14: .

Carol,

Are you actually trying to label me a racist? Seriously? Be very careful with your response.

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Su Ni Chang: david...

I think you are doing that to yourself.

davidk14: So you do believe I am a racist? yes or no.

Su Ni Chang: david...

I just pointed out your words...the ones you wrote. Do your choice of words make you seem like a racist?

davidk14: .

Nice try. Answer the question yes or no.

Do you believe I am a racist. You said, "...I bet you use the old 'I have a Black friend' "defence when confronted about your racist comments too."

Do you believe I am a racist? Yes or no.

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