Is it possible? davidk14: . We're now one step closer to America's coming civil war By Arthur Herman Historian Arthur Herman is the author of the just released "Freedom's Forge: How American Business Produced Victory in World War II " (Random House May 2012) and the Pulitzer Prize finalist book "Gandhi and Churchill: The Epic Rivalry That Destroyed an Empire and Forged Our Age " (Bantam, 2008). Published January 03, 2013 The New Year has started with a monstrosity of a budget deal, one that proves that neither political party, Democrats or Republicans, is really serious about controlling the growth of big government. But soap opera dramatics about fiscal "cliffs" and sequestration shouldn’t deflect from where President Obama is really taking this country. Consider this story from the Wall Street Journal a few days before Christmas: “Thousands of people in several Argentine cities ransacked supermarkets for a second day in the latest challenge to President Chistina Kirchner, who is struggling to revive a weak economy...In the central city Rosario, two people were killed during the incidents and 137 people arrested. Washington's Republicans and Democrats alike have become the toll collectors on the road to serfdom - “The violence puts Mrs. Kirchner in a difficult position as the poor are [her] core constituents...Her government spends billions of dollars a year to help low income families, including free health care...[Yet] Argentine activists who claim to represent the poor traditionally block access to supermarkets in the month of December to demand free food and other items...The latest events were some of the worst acts of looting and vandalism in years.... Local media showed dozens of men, women, and children hauling away televisions, refrigerators, and food.” Some have said my warnings about a coming civil war between makers and takers are exaggerated. It’s true that Argentina’s politicians have been waging class warfare since Juan and Eva Peron–and they aren’t fazed when it turns bloody. Obama and the Democrats are relative newcomers to the game. But Argentina reveals who really suffers when those who create a nation’s wealth get mugged by those who spend it–as just happened this week in Washington. It’s the poor and the middle class, the very ones big government says it’s trying to protect. And sadly that’s where Mitt Romney had it wrong. That 47 percent of Americans who get unemployment benefits, Social Security disability checks, Medicare and Medicaid, and government student loans, aren’t the real takers. Like the rioters in Rosario, they’re just pawns in a perennial battle between those who see wealth and prosperity as something created by hard work, ingenuity, and innovation in a free market system–or something to be doled out by government. Experience teaches that those who believe in free markets are right. The November election and the budget deal, however, show that the other side is winning, and winning big. Since 1970, America’s public sector has exploded as a percentage of GDP, rising to almost 25% last year. While the national unemployment rate hovers at the 8% mark, government worker unemployment rate is a cozy 3.8%. Sixteen percent of America’s workforce now work for government. By the time the Obama administration ends, we won’t be that far away from Argentina’s 21 percent. Yet as an economic and social enterprise, government creates nothing. Far from adding to people’s standard of living, government is the number one cause of poverty in this country. It forces those who depend on its largesse to live hand to mouth, with no time or money to plan for the future. They become unable to fend for themselves---and increasingly resentful of those who can. When the economy tanks and the government checks have to shrink, their only alternative is to take to the streets. That’s what happening in Argentina, and in Greece; and that’s where the growth of government is taking us here, as this current budget deal increases handouts–and more and more Americans are finding that an unemployment or Social Security disability check is their only life line. Washington’s Republicans and Democrats alike have become the toll collectors on the road to serfdom–and the road to Rosario. How far down that road depends on how our private sector rallies in 2013 after two numbing defeats, first on November 7 and then on Capitol Hill this week. .  Sarcastic Dots: Let's overthrow the government for investing billions into Israel with OUR tax money. That's a civil war I can get behind. Cut funding to Israel and instantly lower the deficit. This bait is brought to you by SarcasticDots. (Edited by Sarcastic Dots) davidk14: . Dots, Wait for it...wait for it....not. Jack, Remove guns from the civilian population and you will not have a civil war. Simple. Exactly what this administration is trying to do by attacking the 2nd amendment and avert a civil war. . Sarcastic Dots: You wont answer the post because it is uncomfortable for you that taxation and governmental spending goes to Israel, so evidently the government does give something otherwise Israel wouldn't readily receive the money and you are willing to offer it. (Edited by Sarcastic Dots)  Sarcastic Dots: And a person could create their own justifications for any number of social programs. Even if there was a civil war, there would still be taxes, and they'd still go on things people wont like. Government spending and taxation is never going to be made for what one individual wants, so for that reason, a civil war would be useless - this guy and many others would still be annoyed at something. Unless, of course, these people believe a free market military force is better than a tax funded one. davidk14: . Dots said: This bait is brought to you by SarcasticDots. David responded by not taking the bait. Then Dots said: You wont answer the post because it is uncomfortable for you that taxation and governmental spending goes to Israel, so evidently the government does give something otherwise Israel wouldn't readily receive the money and you are willing to offer it. David responds: The US gives out billions and billions of taxpayer dollars to numerous countries including Egypt. The amount that USAID gives out to countries around the world is just a drop in the bucket of taxes collected (something like 1%). Of the US Taxpayer dollars every year, over 60% is spent on Medicare, Social Security, 20% on the military, and 20% on government programs. Yet, we overspend by 1 trillion dollars every year to cover the social programs which are underfunded by $150 trillion. Get your priorities in perspective. That does not include the 2 trillion + that Obamacare is going to cost taxpayers over the next 10 years. The CBO estimates that the debt is going to grow from 16 trillion to 21 trillion in the next four years. A few billion dollars that USAID spends around the world is a drop in the proverbial bucket. . Sarcastic Dots: Like I said, anyone can find a justification for supporting or loathing what their taxes go on, that doesn't mean a civil war will make this guy happier. You're never going to have a government in your own image, or my image, or his image. A civil war needs to have a definitive end game, and even then the outcome may not be desirable -- in fact, it could be worse than before. The polarising nuances between various political groups mean that nobody has --or will have-- any idea what they're fighting for. Not to mention the fact that the internet pacifies us all due to the belief we all have a powerful voice that will change the world. Nobody can be bothered to leave the house when they can just post on twitter and pretend they're changing the world -- and yes, we're all guilty of that nowadays. Comrade_: Jack, Remove guns from the civilian population and you will not have a civil war. Simple. Exactly what this administration is trying to do by attacking the 2nd amendment and avert a civil war. ____________ I don't see how that is related to what you understand by civil war. Just to clarify are you hinting that the US Government is planning on disarming all US citizens so that they'll not carry out an armed civil war? davidk14: Jack, Check out what the media has on Biden and his comments. "VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN, kicking off White House meetings on gun violence, says 'executive action' — meaning President Obama bypasses Congress — is on the table as a means of toughening gun-control laws." . Comrade_: Yes, but I'm referring to what you are insinuating. Just clarifying if this is your line of thought, that the reason for addressing gun-control laws was/is to prevent citizens from using gun in an expected/probable/assumed civil war. ________ "Just to clarify are you hinting that the US Government is planning on disarming all US citizens so that they'll not carry out an armed civil war?" <--is a yes? (Edited by Comrade_) davidk14: . I am getting paranoid with this administration. Why they are not going after alcohol? Joe said today that if just one life is saved from increased gun control, it's worth it. So, with that, all alcohol should be banded. Or perhaps beer should be only sold by the six pack instead of the 24 pack. Or any alcohol related beverage be only able get you to the .8 limit after drinking a gallon of the beverage and you need to register with a background check as well. After all, alcohol related deaths far surpass gun injuries and deaths. How about swimming pools? I've stated this many times...more children are injured and die in swimming pools than gun related issues. Why is it that liberals want to rid the people of their constitutional rights to have weapons to defend themselves against a tyrannical government? Alcohol and swimming pools kill more Americans than guns. . davidk14: . I am hinting that this may be what they want to do. It just does not make any sense to not go after alcohol and swimming pools that kill many more than guns. Why guns? . Comrade_: Guns is a hot topic esp. after the reoccurring shootings, the demand to address it is there. GeraldTheGnome: The Obamaites versus the Romneyites, both proudly ammo supplied, armed, sponsored and refereed by the NRA. "Shoot all your problems away." (Post deleted by GeraldTheGnome )  lori100: the reason for the shootings is to instill fear and panic in the public, so they will give up their guns and will be completely defenseless against the govt, just as 9 11 was to instill fear and panic and get public support for another war, it is all to convince the public the world is out to get you, give up your rights or you will die........luckily millions have awakened and will not fall for it........  lavendar_star: lori, I don't mind you but regardless if Americans have guns or not, the US government has bio and chemical weapons and the baddest army on the earth, no gun can defend against any virus or disease if your government wanted to take out its people out they could do it without lifting a single weapon just spread a deadly airborne virus. Also didn't you yanks give away quite few rights with the patriotic act anyway under the Bush administration!!!!!!!!!! Tyrannical government my arse maybe with its foreign policy but domestically that pushing it a bit lol. (Edited by lavendar_star) | Politics Chat Room 34 People Chatting Similar Conversations |
