The hideous march of the far-right anarchists (Page 2)

davesdatahut
davesdatahut: No David, no one who opposes Obama is unpatriotic. But if they do so in ways that threaten immediate and serious damage to the economy, they are wildly irresponsible. Wildly irresponsible.
This is not me spouting off. This comes from economists and business leaders the world over. THIS remains the point. I sense you are extremely upset about the health care law, and the federal government in general. Fine. I get that. But don't press that issue by threatening an immediate take-down of the economy, my well-being, your well-being and the well-being of our country. You do it by voting for different candidates and pressing for legislative changes without the threats of extreme damage.
If you see Cruz and his ilk as pressing an acceptable strategy, then we will disagree strongly on this.
(Edited by davesdatahut)
10 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: .

Well....65% of the US population agree with me.

.
10 years ago Report
0
davesdatahut
davesdatahut: On what do the 65 percent agree? That there are problems with the health care law, or that the Tea Partiers were right in their strategy? I believe it may be the former, as the Tea Party strategy was widely disparaged and polls showed a dramatic drop in support for both it and the Republican Party as a result of the brinksmanship. So, again, let's clarify what we are discussing here.
Let me again stress that GOP moderates, business leaders and economists worldwide were freaked out and strongly critical of what Cruz and his mad band of government takedown artists did. I suspect you and the Tea Party radicals disagree, I suspect.
(Edited by davesdatahut)
10 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: .

The 65% agree that the people that represent us in Washington are not doing our biding. We want balanced budgets. We want the debt reduced. We do not want a health care program rammed down our throats without it even being read. We do not want immigration reform where 12 million people who illegally entered the US to get immediate voting rights. A that's just a few of the topics that 65% of the people agree about.

.
10 years ago Report
0
davesdatahut
davesdatahut: You may have 65 percent behind you on some things, although I suspect it ain't really that many or else we'd have different policies being enacted.
What you do not have 65 percent behind are the dangerous, scorched earth tactics of the Tea Party. And that's a good thing, so that those dangerous radicals will get voted out of office. At least I hope so.
That being said, I agree on the need for deficit and debt reduction. You start by setting up more stringent means testing for Medicare and provide incentives for the insurance and medical industry to reduce the wildly escalating costs we have seen in recent years.
Then, perhaps we kick forward the age when people can start collecting social security. We are all staying vibrant longer. So boost the age up to 67 or 68.
Then, you take the military budget and see where technology can replace current equipment and labor costs. Just like corporations do.
At the same time, you can noodle with welfare rules, but that won't do much. since so little of the budget goes to that. The biggies are medical entitlements, social security and the military. Those are the big things that are gonna take us over the cliff if we don't get them under control.
Do all that and, over time, you have some real deficit reduction.
But, to close the circle here, you don't do anything at the point of a sword, like the Tea Party putzes were doing. That's not how things work. May those mouth breathers be voted out of office at the soonest possible moment.

And, as for immigrants, wake up and smell the modern world. Our country is growing more ethnically mixed by the day. And those people the far right so disdains work HARD. I don't think we should let the illegals off scot-free. But we need immigration reform. Whatever side ignores that does so at their own peril.
(Edited by davesdatahut)
10 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: .

Try becoming an illegal alien in Mexico and you end up in the slammer. The US has always been a melting pot. That is what makes the US so wonderful. However, everyone needs to play by the same rules. E-Verify is helping tremendously. Not a citizen....no job. However, 12 million have slipped through. Should they get a path...I think so....but no voting rights for 10 years. Should the border be secured...absolutely.

The Tea Party people I know, which is only a handful actually, are hard working middle class folks living a few paychecks to paychecks, with children, and all the usual. I definitely would not call them dangerous or wanting scorched earth politics. What they do want is a government that has and practices basic economics just like they do....You do not spend what you do not have. We are currently 17 trillion in the hole with another 150 trillion in unfunded liabilities. If 'we' practiced that type of economics....



Regarding your comment on Welfare...here are the facts according to the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service (CRS)....

"...In the U.S. today,[1] there are more than 80 federal means-tested welfare programs that provide cash, food, housing, medical care, and social services to low-income residents. An October 2012 report by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service (CRS) indicates that as of 2011, federal spending on these programs had reached $746 billion per year—more than expenditures for Medicare ($480 billion), Social Security ($725 billion), or the military ($540 billion)."

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1676

.
10 years ago Report
0
davesdatahut
davesdatahut: David, let's put the welfare item in context. The far right has taken the CRS report out of context and taken a giant swath of federal programs and defined them as 'welfare.' I am referring to welfare as the programs for the very poor, like aid to women with children and cash aid. The biggest chunk of the money you are talking about is for Medicaid, not traditional 'welfare.'
This comes down to a matter of stretching the term 'welfare.'
Rather than linking to a partisan web page, see the actual report here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/110413572/CRS-Report-on-Welfare-Spending
Regarding illegal immigrants, it's a very difficult issue. A lot of these people are here working jobs the rest of don't want. And they work hard. And they pay taxes every time they buy things in stores or fill up their gas tanks or
I say impose greater penalties on businesses that hire them with total disregard for the law, while deporting those who are here illegally and not working at least close to full time. Alternatively, order the workers and the businesses to pay back taxes as a condition of allowing them to stay and work.
We do have to keep in mind, though, that these people willing to come here and work for shit pay keep down the cost of goods and services for the rest of us. Deport them and the cost of doing business rises. Something to consider in the bigger picture.
As for the Tea Partiers, the problem with them is not so much their views on the federal spending, although I disagree with the severity of some of these views. The problem is with the wildly irresponsible tactics. That they were willing to risk taking down the economy is reckless beyond words.

(Edited by davesdatahut)
10 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: .

Nice spin I must say. But the facts are the facts. And yes, there are some great programs that are needed. However, we can not afford them. We can not continue to spend money we do not have for all of these programs. Want to give the kids milk? Great. Decide what to give up to fund that program. Want to provide for the veterans as we should? Then decide what to give up to fund that program too. We can not afford to spend and spend and spend. Just does not work. Taking money away from the military is not going to balance the budget and it would be lunacy to do so. As it is, we are cutting from 45 combat brigades to 33 and that is just asking for trouble.

I already explained the virtues of the Tea Party. No deficit spending. They came to being because Obama spent 6 trillion on what? He spent twice as much as Bush did and Bush had 911 and two wars to wind up and fight. Remember, Clinton ran the military into the ground and Bush had to spend $$$ to buy stuff they needed. Remember also, Bush had a stalled economy for months due to 911 that economically cost us trillions. I don't know if you can remember 911, I do vividly. The world stopped. The terrorists won the battle that day.

.
10 years ago Report
0
davesdatahut
davesdatahut: I will comment more about your comments. But as for 9/11, David, I live here. Where the towers fell. So do not suggest that I do not remember this. EVER.
10 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: .

Did not intend to hurt your feelings. Just did not know if you had been born yet. Everyone over the age of 5 remembers that day. That evening, I cried like a baby for a few hours.

.

.
10 years ago Report
0
davesdatahut
davesdatahut: No major problem. It's just important to note that 9/11 is here with us every day...every time you look downtown and see the towers that aren't there any more and the new tower that is. Talk to most people here and they were glad for the war toppling the Taliban and horrified by wasteful war in Iraq. But that's another thread for another time. I will continue to soon with the thread at hand....
10 years ago Report
0
TTauresa
TTauresa: The way I see it, America does not have to fight any Wars, they have to concentrate on rebuilding their own country and finding a replacement energy source to fuel their Economy. If you find a cheap source, you will not have to go far for trade as everyone around the World will come to YOU! And then maybe, just maybe you will leave all the oil rich countries alone.
10 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: .

Replacement energy? What for? We have huge amounts of oil and coal that can fuel this economy for centuries. Yes, these sources need to be cleaned more thoroughly but, that is an easy fix. Once the US does this and becomes energy independent, then and only then, will the US truly be the worlds economic superpowerhouse.

.
10 years ago Report
0
TTauresa
TTauresa: Are you kidding me, surely, you must be aware that what the USA seeks is a market for Oil where they will be able to do trade without difficulties, the ruling goverment, need to make sure the resources will be available for future use within your country! They have to make sure an alternative supplier is available and the whole of the MIddle East is that alternative supplier! You really need to read " Confessions of an Economic Hitman" then we can chat further
10 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: .

It's obvious you are easily brainwashed. IF....and I say IF....the book "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" is anywhere true, he would have been wacked. Seriously. Also, numbers of well known economists have stated his writings are at best...conspiracy theories.

The US has huge reserves and even IF and I say IF the ideas were not theories, yah think that in 200-500 years we would have new energy sources??? Yah think?

Seriously. We need to do what is right....RIGHT now...and become energy independent and stop being held hostage to shortages, threats, and political correctness.

.
10 years ago Report
0
TTauresa
TTauresa: that could be true but really, why would the USA go and help out people in the Middle East if it was not for the Oil they are sitting on! If you look at the world, Africa is a continent that requires help a LOT of help, if any is going spare but the get none! Funny that. Another coincidence, they have not got the vast quantities of Oil that the MIddle East has ! Maybe I am mistaken but I think its pretty obvious. Of course, if I was the President of the USA, of course I would look after my ppeople and their future.....it comes without saying.
10 years ago Report
0
chimp0ut
chimp0ut: What is this garbage post, most leaders on both sides are banker puppets of BoA, Citibank, etc. You try to turn every single topic you can into some gay rights festival when it's about nothing but money and power, and both sides are crooked.
10 years ago Report
0
TTauresa
TTauresa: lol gay rights?? are you crazy?
I am aware of everything you say but you seem to be blind to the damamge the USA is doing in the world
10 years ago Report
0
chimp0ut
chimp0ut: Not you, the topic creator, obviously. Every post is some far left psycho BS.
10 years ago Report
0
TTauresa
TTauresa: I am not the topic creator, I just have my opinions on the topic and I feel the one who is brain washed is you my friend! But hey, you have your oppions and I have mine
10 years ago Report
0
davesdatahut
davesdatahut: Look who's back! It's Chimpie the open-minded! Are you taking a break from hating blacks to toss in your loony thoughts here, Mr. Monkey Man? As if this thread had anything to do with gays!
(Edited by davesdatahut)
10 years ago Report
0
davesdatahut
davesdatahut: Getting back to this thread after a bunch of days away....
David, I agree with you that we should balance the federal budget or come reasonably close. To do so, we will have to find a way to cut what we spend on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. The other entitlements (non-medical) are not the big enchiladas. I think we have to raise the Social Security entitlement age and probably increase some of the Medicare premiums. At the same time, we have to give people some kind of incentive to stay healthy longer, to relieve some of the pressure on the medical system. In addition, the federal government would be well advised to provide some incentives to get the medical industry to reduce the bloated costs of doing business.
What we absolutely positively should not do is hold this issue hostage to government shutdowns and the threat of default, which, as noted earlier, is fantastically irresponsible.
Your thoughts on the matter of budget balancing?


10 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: .

The big gorilla in the room is this....

Unfunded liabilities is around....150 Trillion dollars.

[ For you folks out there, unfunded liabilities is....

"...the amount, at any given time, by which future payment obligations exceed the present value of funds available to pay them."

In other words, after the tax rate / income have been taken into account, it's the amount that is still going to be owed. ]

If we do not learn to balance the budget....like right now, we will continue to increase the debt which is already at around 17 billion. Never mind the unfunded liabilities. We first must stop spending what we do not have. Currently, the US is printing around $85 Billion dollars a month.

Dave, you said, "...What we absolutely positively should not do is hold this issue hostage to government shutdowns and the threat of default, which, as noted earlier, is fantastically irresponsible." I say, what we absolutely positively must do is balance the budget for any hope of coming out of this without a complete breakdown of our monetary system.

My thoughts on how to balance the budget? Get the economy moving. Create income (tax revenue). Sure, easy enough said...right? First thing I would do would be to get us energy independent quickly by drill baby drill and coal. Yes, ecologically efficient is absolute. We can do it. Then the cost of energy will be cheep and a good economy is based on cheep energy. Reduce crazy regulations that the government has no business dictating like the BS regulations regarding the size of soda's and the use of salt in NYC(?). Get the border situation squared away so guest worker programs can be moved forward. Get the kids educated by creating incentives like vouchers so parents can have choices. Just a few thoughts.

.
10 years ago Report
0
davesdatahut
davesdatahut: I am very much for energy independence, so we can rid ourselves of the crackpots in the Middle East that we depend on way too much. I am for figuring out the illegal immigration problem. I for four-square - no, four hundred-square - behind improving our educational system (although I am opposed to vouchers). But we are talking budget balancing and I have gathered, from your past comments, that you want to cut the federal budget. Where do you want to cut it? Or did I understand you incorrectly?
10 years ago Report
1
davidk14
davidk14: .

Nothing in the federal budget is a sacred cow any longer.

.
10 years ago Report
0