Is there A Debt Ceiling? (Page 2) DEEP_acheleg: umm, did you realize that the national debt is about as big as the money supply, itself?  Comandante FiLTH: I do not own a credit card and hopefully never will. What is your question hinting at? Comandante FiLTH: I'm open to hearing your viewpoint, but you have to state your point clearly for me to gather what your viewpoint is. DEEP_acheleg: not really, it is called reductio ad absurdium- i found a fallacy in your argument, and that is good enough Comandante FiLTH: I think you meant reductio ad absurdum and no your statement wasn't a reductio ad absurdum. You can expand on your thoughts and we can have a discussion on that or you can play this fallacy tag and run game. DEEP_acheleg: if you cant see the difference between your personal debt and "our" debt, then, its just a waste of time Comandante FiLTH: I didn't refer to 'personal debt', you did with the false credit card analogy, nor did I make mention of an 'our' debt aka the US debt. I was referring to the debt ceiling. (Edited by Comandante FiLTH) Comandante FiLTH: I see no question mark in my words. If I had a question for you it'd be: Why are you posturing? Comandante FiLTH: To clear up this misunderstanding, do you understand the difference between the US' debt and the US debt ceiling? Also called the debt limit? Comandante FiLTH: You are posturing and it is funny to watch that you are doing it towards a question that I didn't throw around in a hostile manner. It is a fair question and something that have been considered by others as well. Quit beating your chest and settle down. (Edited by Comandante FiLTH) DEEP_acheleg: umm, no- tonight, i have been responding to the statement about the debt ceiling being obsolete... and your subsequent disdain for personal credit... seems hypocritical Comandante FiLTH: The Debt ceiling: "The debt limit is the total amount of money that the United States government is authorized to borrow to meet its existing legal obligations, including Social Security and Medicare benefits, military salaries, interest on the national debt, tax refunds, and other payments. The debt limit does not authorize new spending commitments. It simply allows the government to finance existing legal obligations that Congresses and presidents of both parties have made in the past. Failing to increase the debt limit would have catastrophic economic consequences. It would cause the government to default on its legal obligations – an unprecedented event in American history. That would precipitate another financial crisis and threaten the jobs and savings of everyday Americans – putting the United States right back in a deep economic hole, just as the country is recovering from the recent recession. " -http://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/pages/debtlimit.aspx Time and time again the debt ceiling or as you put it the self imposed credit limit is ignored and it raises. Should the current debt ceiling be revisited? Does it serve any real life scenario purpose other than cause a 'scare' once in awhile? From what I see whether the 'limit' is there or not the government will need to continually have it raised. As the second paragraph from the treasury site points out. Comandante FiLTH: The statement is whether it should be considered obsolete as it isn't enforced. I choose not to be in personal debt and not own a credit card, instead I pay in cash or with my bank card, how does this relate to the US' debt ceiling, beats me, that's why I called it a false analogy. DEEP_acheleg: no, we would not automatically default- we could run a balanced budged and make interest payments- like we do in personal finance DEEP_acheleg: if you think staying out of debt is a good personal choice, then, why is a government taking out debt on behalf of the people not also bad? Comandante FiLTH: There is no defaulting in my statement. The debt ceiling is as raising a flag, it isn't enforced to say that they've reached a limit and that's it. Instead it is raised and the borrowing continues. Comandante FiLTH: My personal choice is mine to make. Your government's decision is between you and your government. In either case, I can control my finances, the US government is already deep in debt, it is not new but you can say perhaps 'inherited' by previous governments and built on. DEEP_acheleg: yes, you are free to make that choice. im just saying, whats good for the goose (an individual) is good for the gander (a country). if debt is a poor personal decision, it is also a poor national one. instead of raising the debt ceiling, a balanced budget should be sought Comandante FiLTH: All right. I agree that national debt is unfortunate and poor budgeting by the government is unfortunate but there is also a difference between myself and the government. For the latter they borrow for a reason to manage the country. I do not know if there is an alternative to not raising the debt ceiling when the calls for it arise. The US has bills and they need to borrow for those bills. Not only the current bills but also the "roll over" debt that pile up. I think that an individual with a credit card has less to worry about than the debt of a government. The latter seem less predictable to manage imo. | Politics Chat Room 96 People Chatting Similar Conversations |