Eight of the most misleading lies told by the leave campaign that the British public will quickly regret believing

Geoff: 1. We aren't going to see a fall in immigration levels

No one in the Leave campaign actually gave any target figures, at any time, ever. Conservative MEP Dan Hannan has already said this morning that people expecting immigration to come down will be "disappointed".

2. We aren't going to have an extra £100 million a week for the NHS

Nigel Farage has already told reporters today that the Leave campaign shouldn't have claimed that.

3. We aren't going to be able to stay in the single market

No other country has a set up like that: both France and Germany have made it abundantly clear that we are not going to be able to have our cake and eat it, ie, take advantage of the free-trade zone without contributing a single penny to it, as Leave says we will.

4. We aren't going to get our sovereignty back

Looks like we're going to get a new prime minister by the end of the autumn Conservative party conference. It'll be a short list of two people, nominated by MPs.

This unelected leader could then theoretically hold office unopposed until a general election has to be called in three year's time.

P.S. We still have the House of Lords. So there's that.

5. We aren't going to save £350m a week

The Leave claim that the UK gives £350m a week to the EU has been thoroughly debunked. But it was still emblazoned on their battle bus right up until the end:

6. We won't remain a world leader in research and development

UK investment in science and universities has dried up since the recession, whereas the EU gave us £7bn in science funding alone between 2007 - 2013.

We're also going to face new barriers to collaboration with European universities and research centres.

Geoff: 7. We aren't going to save £2bn on energy bills

Leave promised we could end VAT on household energy bills. While that's possible, it won't save us any money in reality because we rely on imports for so much of our energy.

Because the pound has fallen, inflation will go up, which means imports and thus our domestic energy bills will cost up to 12 per cent more than they currently do.

8. We aren't going to be a 'greater' Britain

Overnight the UK economy has already slumped from the fifth largest in the world to sixth.

More than £200 billion has already been wiped from the value of the UK stock market - or put another way, 24 years' worth of UK contributions to the EU.

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/8-of-the-most-misleading-promises-of-the-vote-leave-campaign-ranked-in-order-of-preposterousness--WyxD59VO3Nb

dave3974: so project fear is still running ,If you look at it over a longer term the pound has not fallen that much. Gideon appearing in Parliament was more likely to drive it down further. The drop in GDP is likely to be about 1% for leaving the EU. I call that value for money. The devaluation of the pound can only be viewed as a plus for trading. The Leave argument has still to see the light of day but Cameron does not want us to see through all the lies. Immigration was only one aspect of the decision made to leave. The bigger picture is what the Prime Minister doesn't / dare not allow you to see. We have made the right decision for the country and he has looked towards his own self interests and his corporative friends.

I K R: The problem with this is is that the average person doesn't have stocks and shares, And also , we heard all of these arguments prior to the election. And you cant expect the working class to care about someone's stocks and shares when they are forced to use food banks after working all week.
As far as devaluing the pound goes...it was predicted that would happen in the aftermath and that it would soon recover...which it is doing.
The problem is that being British has been devalued...and people are feeling it..they dont need to be told by any campaign....n that is why project fear failed... EU regulations regarding EU migrants gives them the right to government assistance finding housing, schools, and jobs (no British person has that right) And that would be ok if there wasn't a shortage of all those things but there is.....British jobs get advertised in Europe without being advertised here how is that fair....But whenever people complain that its not fair .....they get called racist...People are f*kin fed up of being called racist The right to be treated fairly is all they want.
In fact it is the EU immigration policy that is racist if you look at it....
Leave campaign love to point out that the NHS depends on migrants to function....That is true...but they are not from the EU. The majority of migrants working in the NHS come from commonwealth countries. People from commonwealth countries could always apply for right of abode to live here, they still can, but EU immigrants (predominantly white countries) must take preference....
The NHS will be dismantled and sold of under EU regulations....n who would we protest to stop that from happening.?
Scotland and Northern Ireland had the majority vote for remain.....i think that is more about wanting independence from UK
Another thing people are sick of hearing is our politicians blaming everything wrong in this country on the EU. So now they cant use that excuse . British Parliament should be accountable for British problems.
We dont want the euro, we dont give a damn about the single market, we dont want to be governed by Brussels, we want new beginnings, and we find the uncertainty exciting.
N we wish the remainders would man up n have some self belief, think about the long term benefits....and remember people have given their life fighting for the right to vote in a democracy .....N we cant even go through a little recession?! Shame on you! .Britain is, was and will always be great!

Geoff: The pound's not fallen that much? The largest single day drop against the dollar? Not that much?

If you think that was value for money I bet you believe that we did actually pay £350 million a week. And have no appreciation for what we gained for what we did pay.

//Edit - Sorry, spelled pound with a "t" - preparing for my move to Ireland.

Geoff: The average person does have stocks and shares - that's where their pensions are invested. Even if they rely on the state pension.

The fact of the matter is, David Cameron just presided over the death of two unions because he was scared about the insular fuckwits who don't know what's best for themselves.

The EU will collapse and the UK won't have that trading relationship, even if it's the best deal we can arrange.

And the UK will disintegrate. Scotland will leave, and there's no stopping that. Northern Island will fight like crazy to join the republic, and "democracy is a beautiful thing, even if people don't know what they are voting for."

I K R: i didn't say the £ hadn't fallen much i said the prediction was that it would drop and soon recover....
Theres no guarantee of your pension being there when you reach retirement age if we stay in the EU.
Short term financial gains are not priority to the majority of English voters. Because we arent that shallow.
Its pretty arrogant of you to assume you know better than anyone else of what is best for people.
The reason David Cameron offered a referendum was becasue he wanted to win votes.....that's the beauty of democracy....they have to win your vote. Did Junker come here and try to win peoples votes? No of course not he doesn't need to.
N it would solve everyone's problems if the remainders went and lived in the EU...great idea!

Geoff: @IKR - Sorry, that comment was to Dave.

Geoff: We'll have no more sovereignty over our governance now We'll have no more control over immigration (in fact less, because it'll be driven underground, where they won't even pay taxes), and we'll see the UK broken up.

I K R: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/brexit-worse-europes-economy/

Geoff: Europe is the UK's biggest block of trading partners. Do you really think that is a good thing?

Geoff: And frankly, it's not project fear anymore.

I've lost all respect for my country and am fully intending to leave it before it implodes.

Maybe I'll move to London. That'll be independent soon enough.

I K R: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3661255/Carry-trading-beg-German-car-bosses-Manufacturers-demand-Britain-allowed-continue-trading-EU-without-barriers.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36646251

Immediately after Brexit German car manufacturers were demanding Britain be allowed to continue trading freely. After the dithering and not invoking the article 50 they are saying we will need to have free movement of people. Its pathetic, There's no point making a bold move if you're too weak and feeble to see it through. You might as well stay put Geoff the British government will roll over n play dead like they always do. Infact, we'll probably get a worse deal than what we had before. its a miracle we can stand up straight with no spine.

duncan124:

" Nigel Farage has already told reporters today that the Leave campaign shouldn't have claimed that. "

Like Nigel Farage knows anything about the NHS !! --- a part from being dead.

" UK investment in science and universities has dried up since the recession, whereas the EU gave us £7bn in science funding alone between 2007 - 2013." That's NHS too.

" so project fear is still running " Thats more like it.

The whole thing is unreal. There are many bad people still who want to organise trouble for others. And many of them work in local government.

dave3974: feel free to leave the uk anytime Goff

ghostgeek: The impression given is that the EU single market is a walled garden and that we and the other members have some special silver key that gives us privileged access to its delights that others cannot access.

But this is wrong. Every developed country has access to the single market. The EU has a relatively low external tariff with the exception of certain goods such as agriculture. The inconvenient truth is that non-members of the EU have often exploited the single market far more successfully than we have.

[ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/not-only-can-britain-can-leave-the-eu-and-have-access-to-the-sin/ ]

ghostgeek: A fascinating book on this subject has been written by Michael Burrage, a former academic at the LSE and Harvard and a visiting professor at several Japanese universities. He is not, in short the sort of person, that even the Chancellor could call “economically illiterate”. The Myth and Paradox of the Single Market is packed full of statistics and graphs. While the OECD, the IMF, the Treasury and others have tried on the basis of various economic models and assumptions to predict the future – always impossible – Burrage looks at the past, what has actually happened and the known facts.

His conclusions are counter-intuitive. First, the UK’s exports have grown least during the period of the single market while those of non-EU countries have benefited the most. The US exports more to the EU than we do and its exports have increased at a much faster rate than ours recently. Switzerland exports per capita five times more to the EU than we do. Even more surprisingly, the non-EU members that have no particular trade agreements with the EU such as Australia, Japan and the US, have benefited from the single market more than those like Switzerland, Norway and Iceland, who have negotiated special trade agreements.

Why might this be? One reason is that the single market is open to all advanced economies, in exchange for paying a relatively modest tariff of 3 to 4 per cent, something that evidently does not stop non-EU countries from selling within it. The EU also has the power to determine “standards and rules” within the single market, something sometimes said to amount to a “hidden protection” for the EU’s domestic industries, but which has not, in fact, been much of a deterrent to those selling from outside the EU.

[ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/not-only-can-britain-can-leave-the-eu-and-have-access-to-the-sin/ ]

ghostgeek: These statistics refer to goods. What about services? It is services that, after all, are the UK’s strength, and many authorities consider that the future in trade belongs to services. The EU likes to measure the degree of integration in services within the single market by looking at services trade as a percentage of GDP. Unfortunately, that preferred measure shows that the degree of integration within the EU is extremely low and has been falling, despite all the calls from British prime ministers for “the completion of the single market in services”.

Revealingly, from 2002 to 2012, the EU’s exports of services – that is from the EU to outside the EU – have grown faster than their exports to each other within the EU. These surprising conclusions call into question whether there is any such thing as a single market in services. When one looks at the growth rate of services exports of 20 EU member countries to other EU members, with the exports of 19 non-member countries to the EU, there is no significant difference.

[ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/not-only-can-britain-can-leave-the-eu-and-have-access-to-the-sin/ ]

ghostgeek: Many of the non-EU members who exploit the EU single market successfully do have one distinct advantage over us. Those who do not have any special trade arrangement with the EU, like the United States or Australia, do not pay any contribution to the EU budget. Non-EU countries do, of course, have to pay the external tariff to the EU. But Britain has to pay £8-£9 billion into the EU budget, the equivalent of a tariff of about 7 per cent on our goods. Our free access is not free access at all. Arguing for the single market on the grounds that you can avoid a 3 per cent tariff by actually paying 7 per cent fee is mis-selling on a scale that dwarfs the PPI scandal.

[ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/not-only-can-britain-can-leave-the-eu-and-have-access-to-the-sin/ ]

ghostgeek: The CBI claims that giving responsibility for negotiating trade agreements to the EU has benefited UK exports. This, too, is doubtful. In January 2014, the EU had trade agreements in force with 55 countries whose aggregate GDP was $7.7 trillion. By way of comparison, the aggregate GDP of all the countries with which Switzerland had agreements in force was $39.8 trillion; Singapore had agreements of $38.7 trillion, Chile agreements of $58.3 trillion and Korea $40.8 trillion.

Of course, these agreements included the EU, which has a GDP of $16.7 trillion but, even so, the scale of trade agreements negotiated by these countries vastly exceeds those of the EU. There is a very simple reason for this. The EU is a cumbersome, slow negotiator because it has to take into account the interests of 28 different countries. Moreover, most of the agreements of these independent countries cover services, whereas only two thirds of the EU’s trade agreements do so. The EU has opened services markets of nearly $5 trillion to UK exporters, whereas the Swiss have opened services markets worth $35 trillion.

[ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/not-only-can-britain-can-leave-the-eu-and-have-access-to-the-sin/ ]

ghostgeek: The importance of trade deals can be exaggerated. Countries primarily succeed with or without trade deals if they produce goods of high quality and services that other countries want to purchase. In the modern world, tariffs between developed countries are low and are small compared with movements in exchange rates. The flawed myth of the single market is that it is seriously advantageous to its members. The paradox is that non-members have managed to benefit from it more than members.

There may be arguments for remaining in the EU but they do not revolve around the single market. On trade we have nothing to fear but fear itself. Which is exactly what the Remain campaign has been attempting to stir up.

[ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/not-only-can-britain-can-leave-the-eu-and-have-access-to-the-sin/ ]

Geoff: Well done UK.
You did at least remind me that people voting for something incredibly fucking stupid is so much better than people bombing for something even more incredibly fucking stupid.

ghostgeek: Do prisoners yearn to be free?

ghostgeek: A recent Dutch survey suggested 54% of the people wanted a referendum on leaving the EU. The UK is not alone.

ghostgeek: France, Italy, Denmark and Sweden also seem jaded members of the "Project."

Geoff: Yes, lets annoy the people who make up 57% of our overseas trade.

And unelected or not, do their level best to protect us from exploitation.

From the sort of fuckwits who own the Sun, and the Mail, and the Express.