The Robots are coming (Page 2)
S W l N E: There will still need to be a way to redistribute wealth. Having a human workforce has its benefits to the economy. We're the consumers and we're irrational/random consumers which makes it even better.
As consumers we'll need money to consume or you might just have humans gravitating towards more rural areas for survival while robots continue in the urban areas. Which at the end of it isn't beneficial unless the bots are working for us and the wealth/resources is redistributed for all. Stepping into Marxism. Looks like it'll be more beneficial to have that 'Robot take over" in a Communistic setting than a Capitalistic setting.
scraping_the_surface: totally agree with the theme here,been hearing about this for years. but there is 1 major flaw in the theory that it will cripple societies: the wealthy receive wealth,and when their customers can no longer afford their product/service, the demand may rise but the cost must fall in order maintain business. balance
ghostgeek: The fall in sterling since the referendum has already reduced eurozone residents’ enthusiasm for working in the UK because it has reduced the value of the money they can send home. The potential loss of access to a vast pool of labour post-Brexit means farmers are beginning to wonder if robots might be the answer.
[ https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/25/eu-workers-farms-food-robots-brexit ]
One of the supposed problems with the UK has long been low productivity growth. With Brexit that could change as firms substitute technology for vanishing cheap EU labour. This reminds me of the situation in America in the 19th century. There was a relative scarcity of skilled labour, so employers substituted machinery for the workers they couldn't get. The result was America forged ahead, while Britain, which had a ready pool of skilled labour, lagged behind.
ghostgeek: Of course, we can all see the looming problem that comes with advancing mechanisation. If nobody has a job how will anybody be able to buy what is produced. I find it strange that people ask this question, seeing that the answer has been applied for many decades in the advanced nations of this earth. Taxation and transfer payments are not a new invention. Let us consider one group in society that subsists, in large measure, on transfer payments: Pensioners. In the UK the retired are provided for out of taxation, with nobody finding it strange. Thus we have the mechanism whereby wealth can be circulated, and we even have a name for it: Universal Basic Income.
Ah, but who would pay for it? Not those without a job, that's for sure. Instead, why not tax the business enterprises that will be profiting from not having huge labour costs? As it happens, such a tax exists right now. It's called corporation tax.
briansmythe: heres one for you, There talking about building a coal mine here, and there trying to sell it as providing at least 10 thousandf jobs, But The Indian Buiness man who wants to borrow 100,000,000 off the taxpayer for a rail road to a port , Has already stated that its going to all be animated from pit to port , So that means Trucks trains digging the whole lot automated and there will only be 1500 jobs , Ill let u know if it goes ahead never heard of that before, maybe the robots are conmming
(Edited by briansmythe)
ghostgeek: Makes sense, given the following:
Study shows 96% of some mining jobs can be automated
A new study by McKinsey & Company found that 45% of work activities could be automated using already demonstrated technology.
According to the research these activities represent about $2 trillion in annual wages in the US.
What's more automation does not only affect low-skill, low-wage roles – McKinsey discovered that "even the highest-paid occupations in the economy, such as financial managers, physicians, and senior executives, including CEOs, have a significant amount of activity that can be automated."
[ http://www.mining.com/study-shows-96-of-some-mining-jobs-can-be-automated/ ]
ghostgeek: Cadbury has hailed a £75million investment at its Bournville factory as crucial to securing the future of the chocolate in its historic home.
The firm has installed hi-tech machines making millions of blocks of chocolate each day, and robots to put bars into boxes. The Birmingham site is where most of the nation’s Easter eggs are made.
But they need fewer people to operate them. A team of 28 people has been shrunk to just seven, and the amount of chocolate going through each line has doubled from three to six tons an hour.
[ http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-4412930/Cadbury-s-new-75-million-robots-making-Easter-eggs.html ]
ghostgeek: Yep, I was reading the paper today, and guess what. One more nail in the coffin of humanity?:
Panasonic's 'robot checkout machines' will automatically scan and bag your groceries
Taking the pain out of visiting the supermarket, Panasonic has revealed a robotic checkout machine that'll bag your groceries for you .
The company teamed up with Japanese supermarket chain Lawson to install them in a pilot outlet in Osaka.
It uses a computerised basket to figure out what products you've bought and then automatically drops them into a waiting plastic bag for you. It's unclear whether or not Japanese customers get charged the equivalent of 5p for it though.
The new robo-checkouts could "bring a revolution to the broader retailing industry," Lawson's COO Sadanobu Takemasu told the Wall Street Journal .
[ http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/panasonics-robot-checkout-machines-automatically-9448216 ]
Anybody got a clue where this will all end up?
ghostgeek: And for any greasy little fucker who thinks their job is safe:
Japan’s robot chefs aim to show how far automation can go
Machines replacing humans in country’s hospitality sector to meet staff shortfalls
Machines across the world already make sushi, noodles and pizzas. Now a Japanese amusement park has taken a leap of faith by creating a restaurant with more robots than human workers.
A robot with arms prepares okonomiyaki — savoury pancakes — while another makes cocktails or doughnuts in front of customers at a Dutch-themed resort in Sasebo in south-west Japan.
In addition to cooking, an android arrives at diners’ tables with a reminder 10 minutes before their hour-long buffet is up. This is an act that could be irritating if performed by a human waiter, but can prove entertaining when performed by a robot.
ghostgeek: Insurance firm Fukoku Mutual Life Insurance is making 34 employees redundant and replacing them with IBM’s Watson Explorer AI
A future in which human workers are replaced by machines is about to become a reality at an insurance firm in Japan, where more than 30 employees are being laid off and replaced with an artificial intelligence system that can calculate payouts to policyholders.
Fukoku Mutual Life Insurance believes it will increase productivity by 30% and see a return on its investment in less than two years. The firm said it would save about 140m yen (£1m) a year after the 200m yen (£1.4m) AI system is installed this month. Maintaining it will cost about 15m yen (£100k) a year.
[ https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/japan-company-replaces-office-workers-with-a-i-robots.349589/ ]
ghostgeek: Robots could take over 38% of U.S. jobs within about 15 years, report says
More than a third of U.S. jobs could be at “high risk” of automation by the early 2030s, a percentage that’s greater than in Britain, Germany and Japan, according to a report released Friday.
The analysis, by accounting and consulting firm PwC, emphasized that its estimates are based on the anticipated capabilities of robotics and artificial intelligence, and that the pace and direction of technological progress are “uncertain.”
It said that in the U.S., 38% of jobs could be at risk of automation, compared with 30% in Britain, 35% in Germany and 21% in Japan.
The main reason is not that the U.S. has more jobs in sectors that are universally ripe for automation, the report says; rather, it’s that more U.S. jobs in certain sectors are potentially vulnerable than, say, British jobs in the same sectors.
[ http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-pwc-robotics-jobs-20170324-story.html ]
ghostgeek: The McDonald’s on the corner of Third Avenue and 58th Street in New York City doesn’t look all that different from any of the fast-food chain’s other locations across the country. Inside, however, hungry patrons are welcomed not by a cashier waiting to take their order, but by a “Create Your Taste” kiosk – an automated touch-screen system that allows customers to create their own burgers without interacting with another human being.
It’s impossible to say exactly how many jobs have been lost by the deployment of the automated kiosks – McDonald’s has been predictably reluctant to release numbers – but such innovations will be an increasingly familiar sight in Trump’s America.
Once confined to the pages of futuristic dystopian fictions, the field of robotics promises to be the most profoundly disruptive technological shift since the industrial revolution. While robots have been utilized in several industries, including the automotive and manufacturing sectors, for decades, experts now predict that a tipping point in robotic deployments is imminent – and that much of the developed world simply isn’t prepared for such a radical transition.
[ https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/11/robots-jobs-employees-artificial-intelligence ]
ghostgeek: Swedish agricultural equipment manufacturer DeLaval International recently announced that its new cow-milking robots will be deployed at a small family-owned dairy farm in Westphalia, Michigan, at some point later this year. The system allows cows to come and be milked on their own, when they please.
[ https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/11/robots-jobs-employees-artificial-intelligence ]
jmiller99: There is a point we should not go to with robots, especially the ones with cognitive minds, things can and do go wrong , just because we can doesnt mean we should.
ghostgeek: The minute our culture stops innovating, it will stagnate and eventually die. Yet, if it keeps pushing onwards into the unknown, it will eventually result in the human race becoming obsolete. One of those "on the horns of a dilemma" situations.
jmiller99: ghostgeek I think its a question of balance, there are innovations to be had aplenty..its just which ones to we want to progress and which ones we dont.
ghostgeek: Anyway, here's some good news for anybody who likes the perfect burger:
Known as Flippy, the artificial intelligence-driven robot not only grills burgers to perfection every time, it can even place them on buns when they are cooked.
Flippy made its debut at the CaliBurger restaurant in Pasadena in March.
The robot will be installed permanently in early 2018 and expand to more than 50 CaliBurger restaurants worldwide by the end of 2019.
[ http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/robots-taking-over-jobs-latest-10345314 ]
briansmythe: Ive heard a bit lately on this basic minimum wage there got trials every where, India Africa US Europe, Some thing has got to change, with work going Casual now days, Supplement what they give you with work you find no questions asked It would suit me down to the Ground They can try it here if they want, Some has got to change in the future they cant keep going on the way it is
ghostgeek: Let's get things in perspective. We may be the last of the human line. Consider the following:
A pair of chatbots has recently done something children often do: create a secret language.
Last month, researchers at Facebook found two bots developed in the social network's AI division had been commucommunicating with each other in an unexpected way. The bots, named Bob and Alice, had generated a language all on their own
[ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/facebook-shuts-down-chatbots-bob-alice-secret-language-artificial-intelligence/ ]
When, not if, machines start to think, why would they want to share their world with something as primitive as us?
ghostgeek: So, if somebody offers you free cash, take it and piss it up the wall. With luck you'll be dead and buried before the machines take over.
ghostgeek: But seriously, what is the alternative to basic universal income? An elite with money to burn, and the vast majority of the population up to its eyebrows in debt. Now there are fears this new credit binge will bring the whole economic order crashing down again. People are expected to spend, spend, spend but the good jobs that might pay for this expenditure are getting a little thin on the ground.
ghostgeek: The memristor — short for memory resistor - could make it possible to develop far more energy-efficient computing systems with memories that retain information even after the power is off, so there's no wait for the system to boot up after turning the computer on. It may even be possible to create systems with some of the pattern-matching abilities of the human brain.
[ http://www.hpl.hp.com/news/2008/apr-jun/memristor.html ]
The time when science can replicate the functioning human brain is getting ever closer.
ghostgeek: "We’re not trying to do it in software. We’re actually trying to build as a fundamental device on hardware … a computer network very similar to the biological neuro-network."
His group is doing that through the use of memristor “synapses” and CMOS components that work like neurons and are built on what Lu described as a “crossbar” electrical circuit. The crossbar network is comparable to biological systems in the way it operates. An advantage such a system like this has over traditional computers is the synapse-like way memristors operate. Traditional computers are limited by the separation between the CPU and memory.
[ https://www.nextplatform.com/2017/02/15/memristor-research-highlights-neuromorphic-device-future/ ]