Yet another god doesnt exist thread. (Page 7)

MJ59
MJ59: Well, because the science drives the practices of things medicinal I would say
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AchillesSinatra
AchillesSinatra: It does?

I thought surgeons just cut out/off nasty looking stuff.
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AchillesSinatra
AchillesSinatra: Let's take amputation, for example.

Since people started brutalizing each other (= always) it has been known that a foot that has turned black is bad news.

Hard to see where science comes in here.
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MJ59
MJ59: Yes but they have to go to school to learn the medicine, and the practices they need to be able to do to cut nasty things out safely so as not to endanger life
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AchillesSinatra
AchillesSinatra: Don't we all go to school?
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MJ59
MJ59: Yes but not University to study medicine as a specialist field.

However I'm sure you would not let a medically unqualified person perform a quadruple heart bypass on you because you know they didn't do their time in class learning via the wonderful science of medicine, what and where to cut and suture to keep you alive.

Ergo medical science is pretty beaut

Hack and hope for the best isn't conducive to a prolonged life
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AchillesSinatra
AchillesSinatra: I know, Beav

I'm deliberately overplaying my hand to show (I hope) that you are, too.

Bless 'em all
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MJ59
MJ59: Medical science, we can all agree is a very important thing and being wrong is never an option (even though humans are fallible)
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murrayduan
murrayduan: Medical science, we can all agree is a very important thing and being wrong is never an option (even though humans are fallible)

Your not allowed to be human and make mistakes, the Attorneys wont allow that.

Though there are bad in everything, Doctors too.

Over the years I have learned how our perceptions of people with Titles are for some reason held to a higher standard.

We see Dr., Lawyer, Policeman, Senator, CPA, President, Priest, etc etc and forget they are just human beings.

So when we see that Dr. making multiple mistakes, Lawyer fleecing his clients, Policeman violating peoples Civil Rights, Senators lining their pockets with Gov. money Priests being touchy feely with children or a President abusing his powers, we are somehow shocked.

Joe blow average American does it we go, see how people are.

People are people no matter the education or position in life. I have survived by being a pessimist in all things.
I expect the worse of everyone. Have been most of my adult life and IMO it pays dividends. If I am wrong and that person turns out to actually be a good person, I don't mind being wrong as the results of being wrong is good things occur.

If I am right and the person lives up to my expectations there is some solace in sayin see I told you so. Win Win in a morbid way.
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zeffur
zeffur: re: "murrayduan: A question I would like to see answered is
if you would not want a Doctor to operate on you who learned their trade 2000 years ago, or explain the wonders of the Universe from what they learned 2000 years ago or pretty much explain anything based on their learnings, 2000 years ago then why would you believe what 80 of those same men wrote in a book and threatened you with death or eternal damnation for not believing it? Please explain."

That ^^ is some barely coherent shite.

1. First of all, the 2000 years reference that you keep using is not valid at all. Many of the books from the old testament were written much longer ago than 2000 years.

2. Medical knowledge then compared to now is an irrelevant point because the purpose of The Holy Bible isn't about conveying medical knowledge--it's a history of God's work & intentions in the past, present, & future as well as a guide for people to understand what is good/evil, right/wrong, etc.

3. Wonders of the Universe--again irrelevant as that also isn't the purpose of The Holy Bible.

4. "explain anything based on their learnings" -- it seems you have no sense of the importance of historical events, purposes, lessons, hope about the future, etc. That seems to be a fault that you possess--most people are not so narrow minded.

5. "why would you believe what 80 of those same men wrote in a book and threatened you with death or eternal damnation for not believing it? Please explain."

Because, unlike you, I'm not a dull wannabe chimp descendant. The Holy Bible provides crucial information about right, wrong, & how to live a good life--it also warns of the consequences of not being intelligent enough to do what is right/good. Someone such as yourself is confused by that because you have chosen to believe lies over truths & the consequence is delusion & confusion. The rest of us see your result & sit astounded & in contempt of your unwise decisions & results. Sadly, even these words won't likely change your plight because you have exactly what you deserve because of the unwise decisions that you have chosen in your life.

Remember, you too can change as long as you are alive--although, you probably aren't sensible enough to do so.
(Edited by zeffur)
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Sandra1957
Sandra1957: figures you were on wireclub 2000 years ago
(Edited by Sandra1957)
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murrayduan
murrayduan: The New Testament ,was written about 33 AD to 80AD about 2000 years ago It was put together by about 80 men why actually voted on what stories to include and leave out.

Medical knowledge is relevant as it shows us what level of knowledge on whole, people possessed at the time. The best minds one would hope accumulated the stories and folklore they wanted to include,
The same amount of knowledge in the medical field at the time was equivalent to a Witch Doctor. As science gained knowledge over the years all those old ideas became almost humorous compared to what was discovered.
Fortunately for Religious beliefs the vast amount of money to be had promoting the old discredited ways kept people ignorant of the truth. Sorry kids.

No one wanted to start over when the threats of death and Hell were so effective.

The beliefs regarding the Universe again demonstrate how little was known in that time period. Mostly guesses about Astrology, Creation, Medicine, Biology etc were offered to explain the unknown.

Anyone who has actually read the Bible will see numerous stories as I listed in a post, a while back. These stories talk of mass slaughter by God against non believers and those who would defy what is claimed he said.
The stories of Hell and Fire were standard in the churches for many years awaiting sinners.
Lets not forget the big whopper, The Flood, which would have killed about 20 million were it true.
That was how they stopped new knowledge and truth from upsetting the goldmine called Religion.

Educated people know you are a descendant of a common ancestor shared with Chimpanzee's but hey if you would rather claim against Facts. you are the biproduct of Incest, Knock yourself out. You might be able to offer yourself as proof of that? Yikes.

Science also knows what happens as result of incest.
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zeffur
zeffur: @murrayduan:

"Most Biblical scholars believe the Book of Genesis was the first book to be written down. This would have happened around 1450 BC to 1400 BC. So perhaps about 3400 years or so ago."
src: https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/how-old-is-the-bible

So yeah, you're wrong again--no surprise.

re: "That was how they stopped new knowledge and truth from upsetting the goldmine called Religion."

Bad try. That ^^ is total rubbish. Many universities (Harvard, Yale, & Princeton, etc) of higher learning were founded by religious people. While your 'survival of the fittest' kind were savagely killing each other--highly intelligent people were busy building civilization & educating people day in & day out. Meanwhile Darwin was imagining & delude himself that differences in bird beaks eventually turn into new kinds of creatures in only his imagination--no need for proof of any kind...

re: "Educated people know you are a descendant of a common ancestor shared with Chimpanzee's but hey if you would rather claim against Facts."

Wrong again. The myth of evolution is not a scientific fact & you are a liar.
Evolution is a fairy tale for atheists & nitwits & not worth the paper it is written on.
(Edited by zeffur)
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MJ59
MJ59: Zippy..... Go piss up a rope, mate

(Edited by MJ59)
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Motati
Motati: Eish! I am wondering, how will we feel if we later in life or in death or maybe in our next lives, we realise that what we have been arguing about on religious matters it's all fairy tales? Just wondering.
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Sir Loin
Sir Loin: Oh Zeff, seriously? You're back onto evolution???
Evolution and faith in a higher being, even a creator are not mutually exclusive. The bible does not claim evolution is wrong, in fact it supports the idea.
Only in America do people still rant against evolution.
Yale Harvard and Princeton higher learning universities? Yeah, Right. An ivy league degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on out in the real world!
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murrayduan
murrayduan: zeff, Like I say you are a walking contradiction.

The book of Genesis was one of the stories voted to be included in the Bible. As for when it was written lets assume your quote is accurate. That means it was written by men even more ignorant then those who voted to include it in the Bible a few thousand years later.

If that isn't enough contradiction you claim "most " scholars, I guess to infer it must be true because most believe.

Yet about 98% of Scientists believe Evolution is fact but that doesn't count? WTF?

Wait did you say I was lying, that Scientist's are wrong even though 98% say it is fact.

I thought "most" is good enough for you? Oh wait not when it doesn't support your ignorance. Got it. Scary
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lori100
lori100: people who have near death experiences state their encounters of God---that God doesn't care about church or religion...God only cares about what kind of person you are....
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zeffur
zeffur: re: "Sir Loin: The bible does not claim evolution is wrong, in fact it supports the idea."

Where praytell does the bible 'support' the idea of evolution??
(Edited by zeffur)
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zeffur
zeffur: re: "murrayduan: zeff, Like I say you are a walking contradiction."

Your mental weakness/confusion does not mean anything that I've typed is contradictory.

re: "The book of Genesis was one of the stories voted to be included in the Bible."

Says you. Where's your proof?? You are undoubtedly a delusional evolutioner or liar, so why should anyone accept anything you claim is true?? You don't even know a fact must be true in order for you to honestly claim it is a fact--and the only way to do that it to prove that it is true before claiming it is a fact.

re: "As for when it was written lets assume your quote is accurate. That means it was written by men even more ignorant then those who voted to include it in the Bible a few thousand years later."

Once again...you don't know that. They could have known everything that was possible to be known at that time & all that God taught them that was true, but they couldn't confirm as true. It's more likely that they were far more intelligent & knowledgeable than you as they reportedly lived for hundreds of years. Methusala supposedly lived 969 years--which is far longer than you will ever live. I think it is a pretty safe bet such a person likely knew many more things than you will ever be able learn in your life.

re: "If that isn't enough contradiction you claim "most " scholars, I guess to infer it must be true because most believe."

And the key word in your sentence is 'guess'

re: "Yet about 98% of Scientists believe Evolution is fact but that doesn't count? WTF?"

Group delusion is a powerful thing. Just look at how educating the masses with such rubbish has cause so many of them to believe such a fraud. It's a sad thing...

re: "Wait did you say I was lying, that Scientist's are wrong even though 98% say it is fact."

Repeating your statistic endlessly won't make it true. Pretending you aren't a liar also doesn't change the fact that you are.

re: "I thought "most" is good enough for you? Oh wait not when it doesn't support your ignorance. Got it. Scary"

^^ just another incoherent statement from you that is just a feigned attempt to project my sound rational belief is 'scary' when in reality you know & believe what I've communicated is more plausible than the fairy tale myth of evolution that you dishonestly blather on about in vain.

The fact remains after you have again blathered on in vain, that you have not provided any compelling/convincing proof that your delusional belief is true. You aren't fooling anyone except yourself. Any further iterations of your drivel is pointless. Either prove your belief is true or please refrain from addressing me with your dull & tedious tactics.

Have a great day! :-)
(Edited by zeffur)
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murrayduan
murrayduan: Methusala supposedly lived 969 years--which is far longer than you will ever live. I think it is a pretty safe bet such a person likely knew many more things than you will ever be able learn in your life."

Yep he knew the Universe revolved around Earth, you can cure disease by draining blood from the sick and was so popular his own son refused to let him on the Ark when the "flood" came so he drowned.

That's what happens when you tell stories and make up stuff. So yep he did know more then I do, I didn't know those things? Zeff the two of you have something in common Fairy Tales and Comic books are real. Yikes.
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zeffur
zeffur: re: "murrayduan: MethuYep he knew the Universe revolved around Earth, you can cure disease by draining blood from the sick and was so popular his own son refused to let him on the Ark when the "flood" came so he drowned."

Every single one of those ^^ statements are 100% wrong.

re: "So yep he did know more then I do, I didn't know those things?"

That ^^ may be the only honest statement that you have made in your life.

re: "Zeff the two of you have something in common..."

We both likely had the ability to recognize a lying buffoon in a very short amount of time.
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GeraldtheGnome
GeraldtheGnome: God may or may not exist. There is no evidence that he does exist, there is also no evidence that he doesn't exist, therefore no one can tell anyone that he certainly does or doesn't exist without the evidence to back up their words. Then and only then with evidence will I agree with the Person that displayed the evidence to me and to others. End of story and the end of me being in this Forum, hopefully.
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zeffur
zeffur: re: "GeraldtheGnome: God may or may not exist. There is no evidence that he does exist..."

The documented history of the Jewish people would disagree with you. Their record of their experience with a God from heaven is in fact 'physical evidence' that God exists.
(Edited by zeffur)
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GeraldtheGnome
GeraldtheGnome: Damn it, I was wrong. I'm still here. Someone told a Story about someone that may or may not have existed then or previously to when that one told that story, maybe even before the one who told the story was even alive. That only shows evidence of a story no matter if you or anyone else considers it the documented history of the Jewish People as you put it. So I don't care who or what shows something that is considered the opposite of what I just put since the evidence is flawed without being what is and what was so. Remember, mythology of any kind at times has been put down as documented history too. If I am to believe every bit of all forms or at least of certain forms of documented history have indeed happened as has been told then I'll be considered gullible because after all I will be gullible if I do that. Hope that you are right, never be certain unless you can show that it is so. If you can't show that then you only have what maybe possible to show to me and to others.
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