"The kingdom of God, is just something for christians to hope for in the future"

Shelby_Geek
Shelby_Geek: give me some reasons, why people believe this?
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cyber4EVA
cyber4EVA: They totally believe what some preacher told them and are scared $hitless of ending up in a hell that for them is real, but for the reat of us is an imaginary, but brilliant trick from the early church leaders to have something to save people's souls from.
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doulas4life
doulas4life: @ Shelby Geek...precious soul, not all roads lead to salvation,
the Bible has proven true time and time again, through history, geography, true unbiased science, and predictions written thousands of years ago that have come true.
The Bible has been such a faithful witness, and many prophecies have already come true, and more are in line to come true, is the reason I trust the road to salvation is narrow. Bible puts it this way.
Note that some of these are Jesus own words when He walked this earth in the form of a man.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
Matthew 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide [is]the gate and broad [is]the way that leads to destruction, andthere are many who go inby it.
Matthew 7:14 "Because narrow [is]the gate and difficult [is]the way which leads to life, andthere are few who find it."

I would also like to point out not everyone who claims to be a christian has salvation,
ever hear of hypocrites? wolves in sheep clothing? or note the fact God's judgment in the book of Revelations starts with the church?

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Matthew 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Matthew 15:8 'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with [their] lips, But their heart is far from Me."

By now you might be asking how can someone know if they are saved?
Well I tell you I am not God, but I know you are supposed to seek Him alot.
I know you are supposed to repent which means turn away from your sin, repentance is huge.
I know its by God's grace " which means unmerited favor", and through faith.
here is a basic outline from the Bible about how to be saved

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death, but the gift of God [is] eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus
and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
I also ask you to look up James ch.2 want you to take speacial note of these verses
James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble!
James 2:20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? [fn]"

Please do not misunderstand me works can not get someone into heaven but if they are truely saved i believe you will see whats called the fruits of the spirit.
Galations 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Galations 5:23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
2Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone [is] in Christ, [he is] a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
................................................................................................................
@ cyber4eva
I am guessing you are breaking Jesus heart, I am guessing Jesus is crying over you.
Do you have any idea how much God cares about you? So much that He sent His only begotten son to die on a cross and pay for your sins and make a way for you to be saved from hell. But God gave man freewill and God will not force you to follow Him, God will not force you to love Him, thats why it says in the book of deutueronomy
Deuteronomy 30:15 "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil."
I want your name to be written in the book of life and heres why

Revelations 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
Revelations 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, [fn]and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
Revelations 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [fn]
Revelations 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Precious soul hear me when I tell you hell is real, and its full wailing, gnashing of teeth, a lakepit of fire, the devil, demons, false preachers, unrepentant sinners, and no escape route.
by the mercies of God hear what Luke 16 says
Luke 16 Luk 16:23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'
Luke 16:25 "But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
Luke 16:26 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'
Luke 16:27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
Luke16:28 'for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'
Luke 16:29 "Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'
Luke 16:30 "And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
Luke 16:31 "But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

Bible has not told lies so far why would it lie about this?
Hear me also when I tell you the only reason I am a christian is not merely to get my get out of hell free card, although that is incentive enough right? I am also a christian bacause I my Jesus is worthy,
Think about what the rightful owner of the universe and your creator did for you and me
Isaiah 53:5 But He [was] wounded for our transgressions, [He was] bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace [was] upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Hear me when I tell you God is good.
Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.
Isaiah 49:15 "Can a woman forget her nursing child, And not have compassion on the son of her womb? Surely they may forget, Yet I will not forget you."
Exodus 14:14 "The LORD will fight for you, and you shall hold your peace."
And look what God has for those who follow Him
Relations21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
Revelations 21:2 Then I, John, [fn]saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Revelations 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them [and be] their God.
Revelations 21:4 "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
Revelations 21:5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, [fn]"Write, for these words are true and faithful."
Revelations 21:6 And He said to me, "It is done! [fn]I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.
Relations21:7 "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, [fn]and I will be his God and he shall be My sON.
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doulas4life
doulas4life: @cyber4eva typo the last two words of the verse were my son.
p.s. please read message above that I wrote to shelby geek, the last part of the message is to you cyber4eva.
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cyber4EVA
cyber4EVA:
Dear Doulas4life,

As far as I'm concerned, Jesus is a thing of the past. And even if we, for argument's sake, imagine that he somehow may be affected by any present human activity, I'm sure that he would be much more baffled, shocked and disappointed by all the atrocities that are committed in his name than by any reflected thoughts that my humble mind is capable of conjuring up…

You seem to be one cocky little sparrow to pretend to know the thoughts of God. Then you repeat the worn-out Christian propaganda about Jesus being his son and saviour. Pretty arrogant on your behalf, I'd say. Where are your manners? Do you really think that I care one tiny bit about your trivial little belief? To me, your probably well-meaning words are completely irrelevant and also quite a bit disrespectful. Don't even think that you have an all-seeing eye that knows what is best for everybody on this planet! More than 60 percent disagree with you, so you are clearly outnumbered.

Even if something works for you, that doesn't mean that everybody else should be judged by your biased standard. Do you seriously think that I should take your words as universal truths just because you quote extensively from a book that was written by and for people of a bygone era? Come on, that is taking it too far, and I guess you know it too, if you have the guts to examine the deepest corners of your heart.

This forum is definitely not the right place to try to convert people to your particular belief, so please refrain from preaching, which is an arrogant way to say that your opinion is more valid than mine, which certainly isn't the case. All references to devils, hells, sins, punishment and salvation belong to the literary realm produced by the early Church to scare their parishioners out of their right mind and into its damp clutches.

I guess that you implicitly defend the burning of heretics as well. You may claim that God has given men free will, but for a thousand years, the Church surely didn't, by killing off the competition in a literal way. If I had lived in those days, I would have proudly gone to my bonfire, while cursing every horrible aspect of the Church.

Luckily, we have come a long way from that situation today. The Pope is no longer an authority figure, but the laughing stock for most people outside his own church and even an embarrassment to many Catholics, since he insists that they should live in the past, where men enjoyed discriminating against women and people with different orientations than the purely hetero.

If you think that you know what is best for the entire human race and don't accept that other people may think differently with equally valid ideas, then there is nothing that separates you from God. You have taken his role as humanity's guide and mentor, but do you really have the qualifications for that? Not the way I see it. To me, you are just a pathetic little mouse trying to impose your belief on everybody, but what do you know? I'm not impressed at all. I have dealt with your kind before and no Jehovah or Mormon knocking on my door will ever be able to instruct me how to live my life, so you may just as well give that up sooner than later.

The Bible has told no lies? Please don't make me laugh! I think it's time for me to start quoting the Bible as well. In Genesis 20-26, we hear that Abraham and Isaac had contact with the Philistines, a people that did not come to the area until long afterwards. The word "Philistine" comes from the Egyptian peleset and the first to use this expression about the seafarers in Egyptian records claim that they first settled around the inner Mediterranean about 1180 BC, many centuries after Abraham. According to Genesis 37:15, Joseph and his brothers met Ishmaelite traders en route from Gilead to Egypt with spices, balm and myrrh on their camels. The Egyptians depicted all types of animals in their art, but we cannot find any camels used for transport until 1100 years later. Before then, only donkeys carried goods in the Middle East. The oldest references to domesticated camels come from the Persian Gulf around 850 BC and the Egyptians started using this animal two hundred years later. Money in the form of coins occurs frequently in the Old Testament, but in reality, they were first put to use as a means of payment by the Lydians around 650 BC. Here, I could have continued until cramps paralysed my typing fingers, but it's enough to mention an example from the New Testament, namely the fact that the Bible is unable to agree with itself about where the Ascension took place. If you look at both it and other New Testamental accounts more closely at the seams, you will find out that the various authors strongly disagree. Luke, for example, has it that Jesus was lifted up from Bethany (24:50-51), while Matthew states that he left from a mountain in Galilee (28:16-20). The best known version, where Jesus leaves Earth from the Mount of Olives, is found in Acts 1:4-12. If one of these stories is true, then the others must surely be lies!

Do you really think that I am prepared to swallow and follow a faith that is so obviously man-made and full of inconsistencies, contradictions and outright mistakes? I have studied how the historical Jesus was promoted to god by Paul and later Constantine, while such ideas during his own lifetime would have qualified to stoning on the spot by conservative Jews, among whom the worship of humans was utterly blasphemous. It's therefore crystal clear that all the supernatural elements that surround him in Christianity must have been added at a later stage, probably like varnish on a two-dimensional picture with a slightly different colour tone for each layer. But to you, such objective research is not necessary, since you seem to believe a slick story with no critical objection, while eagerly gulping down the bait, hook, sinker and line in the same process.

Sorry if I have come down a bit harsh on you, but you set the standard with the way you treated me in your post above and I always meet my co-debaters on their own terms. And for the record: I am not trying to impose my view on anybody. Instead, I'd be greatly disappointed if someone copied my unique opinion, since that would betray their inability to think for themselves. To assume somebody else's faith is easy. To criticise it and cough up some original thoughts, on the other hand, can really be a demanding ordeal.

Eva
(Edited by cyber4EVA)
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xXBrokenSoulXx
xXBrokenSoulXx: doulas4life is Good to see the wise it brings my spirits high, People are trying to be God. Only one God created everything. Many proof in the most book ever sold with the most translations to save the wise people this one great loving God created and saves. Fear God and fear death if your heart is not with God. Study the things God has done with his people and his son Jesus Crist and live his ways to become and have most of everything he wants for your individual life
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xXBrokenSoulXx
xXBrokenSoulXx: The bible is the key. and its so filled with drama and so exciting, and so wise and so good book. I dont know why everyone hasnt read it is sooooo powerfull it will shake the walls of your life and move your heart, you will cry and smile and feel love from God dircectly from him to you.
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doulas4life
doulas4life: Dear cyber4eva,
I am sorry you could not feel the love I was trying to show you.
I was trying to show you God loves you, and hoping you would see I love you too.
When Christ love is shed abroad in someones hearts, I believe it causes a person to love people more like Jesus does.
If someone you loved was gonna get run over by a truck, would it be more loving to tell them? Or is it more loving not to tell them?
Tell them right? How much more the gosphel considering that hell exist. We have all fallen short of God's grace, we have all sinned, including me,
and including you, please do not be shocked or shaken or offended by this, and I am not trying to come off as self righteous.
I am a sinner too, thats why we need to repent.
Jesus is real and believe me when I tell you you do not even breathe without Him,
according to scripture in Him you live, and move, and have your being.
And I fully agree that the atrocities comitted in His name will be punished as much if not worse,
that why in the book of Revelations judgment will begin with the seven churchs, and not the unbeliever.
Infact I believe scripture says let not many of you be teachers for you will recieve the stricter judgment.
However that in no way means the unrepentant sinners will not be fiercely punished as well.
Infact lets go to 1 peter
1 peter4:17 For the time [has come] for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if [it begins] with us first, what will [be] the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?"
I still have responsibilities to preach the gosphel matter of fact God's word pronounces woes on me if I do not.
1Corinthians 9:16
"For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for necessity is laid upon me; yes,
woe is me if I do not preach the gospel!"
I am little but I am not a sparrow, and I try not to be cocky. I believe being cocky has pride not far behind.
I also believe pride is a sin, quite possibly pride is the root of all sin.
please understand I am not pretending to know God's thoughts, I am testifying what God's own word is.
I did not write the gosphel, I did not write the Bible, I am merely a witness for the Lord Jesus.
walking in fear and reverence and in prayer do I do this, knowing I will give account to God for this.
I do not think it is me you find arrogant, remember I did not write the gosphel,
I think if you believe what you wrote me in your last post, you find the gosphel arrogant.
I addressed that earlier we are all sinners, do not be shocked, shaken, or offended by that, we have all fallen short of God's grace.
Let me ask you a question if God Himself has my back does it matter if I am outnumbered? not really.
once again not my standard, did not write the Bible, I do not necesarily want you to simply take my word for it.
I want you to encourage you to seek God on your own, study Gods word on your own, I want you to meet Jesus for yourself.
My biggest wish for you is for you to have salvation. I have alot of guts, I had guts to look at what different schools of thought believe,
I looked at what athiest believe, what catholics believe, what non-messianic jews believe,and others but at the end of the day I believe the truth stands up against everything false. Most truth I found was in Jesus, for that and many other reasons I believe in Jesus.
I also had the guts to look at the possibility I was guilty before God and needed salvation.
I have the guts to look at the deepest corners of my heart when I did it scared me because I saw disgusting sin, but it also brought healing because it helped show me I needed to be forgiven by God.
I do not have the power to convert anyone, but God does have the power to save. I preach the gosphel and explained part of why earlier in this post.
Remember the woes on me if I do not? why would I not preach on this forum? Its specifically designed for this sort of thing.
Many predictions written in the Bible have already come true, plus there are plenty of people who say they had near death experiences and testify
of hell, there is histrical, geographical, archeological, true unbiased science and prophecy to back the Bible up.
Dont you think the archeological digs could of disproven something in the Bible if the Bible was not true? I dont know exactly how many digs there have been but im pretty sure its in the thousands. Do you really want to gamble with your soul like that?
you are not your own, God made you, you were fearfully and wonderfully made. Thats why if this picture of yours is any indication you are beautiful.
precious soul why would you neglect so great a salvation?
No I do not approve of burning heretics at the stake, and just because the church has done thing does not mean God approved of all of it.
Remember judgment begins with the church.
well I am not catholic and I do not defend catholicism, I do not believe every road leads to salvation.
I am a follower of Jesus. I do not think I know whats best for the human race.
However I know Jesus does know what is best for the human race and I testify of His Word,
and rest assure I am different than God.
Here are some examples... I did not create everything but God did,
I do not have the power to save souls but God does,
I am not a diety with all authority but God is.
I deserve hell, but God deseves to be worshipped.
I am not playing God because I testify of His word.
I am not a mouse, I am little, you do not have to remind me I am pathetic I know.
God knows I am lame and foolish but fortunately for me God uses the foolish things of this world.
1Corinthians 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty"
not a jehovahs witness or a mormon do not believe all roads lead to heaven, I am a follower of Jesus. and once again I did not write the Bible.
They are not my thou shalt nots or my instructions to you they are God's. Why should I give up on you if God has not given up on you?
concerning the so called lies you think you have found in the Bible do you not think satan wants to confuse you?
Do you really think the devil wants you knowing the truth?
Do you know how accurate the new testament is compare to other ancient documents? I think its about 99.5 percent free of textual discrepencies,
with no major doctrines in doubt.
concerning what you said about the historical Jesus promoted to god by Paul. once again the devil wants to confuse yoy.
Satan is a liar and the father of it.
its reported within weeks of the crucifixion thousands of Jesus became convinced Jesus was the Son of God and began following him, abandoning key social practices that had critical sociological and religious importance for centuries?
its also reported the early church could not have tasken root and flourished in Jerusalem if it had been teaching facts his own contemporaries could have exposed as exaggerated or false. Do you honestly think Paul was capable of doing all that?
you said "Sorry if I have come down a bit harsh on you", forgiveness is big with Jesus. After all Jesus has forgiven us of soo much.
So I pray that Jesus helps me to forgive everyone of everything they have, are, or will do to me. I believe people will be in hell because of unforgiveness and I pray I am not one of them. Besides I do not really think what you call harsh is directed at me but really to God.
Like I said I do not necessarily expect people to take my word for it, I testify Of Gods Word, I also try to encourage people to study Jesus for themselves. and thank you sooo very much for taking the time to respond so thouroughly, I really appreciate it.
I will pray for you.
(Edited by doulas4life)
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doulas4life
doulas4life: @xx Broken Soul xx
Amen bro, that was a very welcome message to my weary soul. Jesus is worthy to be praised!
I hope we can kick it in heaven some day, maybye with a a couple of cheeseburgers!
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Byakuya
Byakuya: all religion is, is a way to keep people in line through the power of faith and alot of people want to believe in life after dearth, it has its own set of rules just like other religions that people follow you cant say for sure that if there really is a god that christianity is the true religion your going of faith and stories you have heard theres no proof that what the stories say are true your believing them on faith alone there may of been a man called jesus back then but there was also alot of other people back then
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doulas4life
doulas4life: @Byakuya
Please open your heart and see the truth before it is too late.
Do you know the Bible has predictions written in it thousands of years ago which have already come true?
the Jews having a nation and many others. plus if you keep up on current affairs more seem to be in the process of coming true.
please dear soul also consider archeology has found many things written in the Bible to be true.
I would keep going but this is not about me showing my intelligence, this is about you needing salvation.
please do not let this worlds confusion, or your flesh, or the devil decieve you.
please open your heart, see the truth, accept Jesus as your Lord and savior before its too late.
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Byakuya
Byakuya: im sure i can make a predicition of what might happen in 1000 years but that would be pointless because i wouldnt of been able to prove that my prediciton came true that prediction of the jews having there own nation that was almost certain it was going to happen i can make predicitions of thigns that are certain to happen or almost certain to happen
if i say the world isnt going to end on the 21st december 2012 and it doesnt, does that make me a prophet then because one of my predicitions came true
i dont need to open my heart to anything i have my own beliefs and they differ from your
my life is alot happier and more enjoyable without having a faith in something that doesnt exist
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Thumbilina
Thumbilina: What does it matter?...As long as you feel you have someone who is there for you?...Seen or unseen? A faith...that you were brought on this earth for a reason?
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Byakuya
Byakuya: it does matter when i get preached to besides thats all religion is, is faith besides i couldnt care less what people believe in as long as they dont preach to me and tell me to "find god/jesus"
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Thumbsy
Thumbsy: Or "repent before it's too late". I find that one particularly nasty and disrespectful.
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doulas4life
doulas4life: @ Thumbsy or Byuakuya
I would like to apologize if anything I have written has appeared disrespectful, or nasty. Please understand if someone believes hell exist is it loving to not warn people?
Or is it loving to warn people? so they can have the opprtunity to repent and go to heaven where there is everlating joy, peace, and no more tears. In my humble opinion I believe it is way more loving to warn people. I do not want to offend anyone ever, but I also do not want people to go to hell. Picture this if I have been given grace which I will not truely know until judgment day, and there are people who I will see going to hell asking me why I did not warn them how am I going to feel?
How can I say I really love people if I stand by and do nothing?
when people are in trouble I believe a loving person should try to help.
If you had a friend about to get ran over by a bus would you warn them?
However maybye you know of a more loving way to share the gosphel,
maybye my approach could use some work, so help me out.
If you were sharing Jesus how would you do it?
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CoIin
CoIin: If people want to believe in fairy tales, that's their business. I personally think they're loony tunes but as long as they don't harm anyone, it's cool.

But these "warnings" get tiresome, especially since they invariably come from people who sound like they're eight years old and have read a grand total of one book.

Perhaps it's morally incumbent upon those of us who don't believe in macabre fairy tales to warn those who do that psychiatric assistance should be sought. Unless of course they really are eight years old, in which case time should take care of the problem.

Oh, and by the way, according to my own research, we're all gonna turn into penguins

(Edited by CoIin)
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chesney
chesney: @ Doulas4life

I would like to analyse your last post, if I may. No disrespect intended, by the way.

You wrote: "I would like to apologize if anything I have written has appeared disrespectful, or nasty. Please understand if someone believes hell exist is it loving to not warn people?" Yes it is. If you really love people, like you say, you grant them the right to have their own view in peace, just like you would want them to let you have yours in piece. The clue here is "believe". You have no proof for a hell, so it's nothing but a belief. If someone disagrees, that's their privilege, just like it's yours to believe in a hell. If it scares the crap out of you, then the inventors of this concept have achieved their purpose, but don't pretend that your personal opinion is valid for everybody and has to be imposed upon each of your fellow human beings everywhere and at all times. That's simply arrogant and intolerable on the part of others.

"Or is it loving to warn people? so they can have the opprtunity to repent and go to heaven where there is everlating joy, peace, and no more tears. In my humble opinion I believe it is way more loving to warn people." It's admirable to warn people about something that is an indisputable fact. But warning people about something that exists only in your head and those of your likeminded is uncalled for and utterly disrespectful. You claim to know details about a possible afterlife that are pure speculations and wishful thinking. Other faiths have other concepts, so only one of them may be correct - at best. Probably, they are all wrong, since no one have returned from the dead to give us an accurate description.

"I do not want to offend anyone ever, but I also do not want people to go to hell." Fine. If you don't preach, you will not offend anyone. Most of us are grown ups here, so stop acting like a minor by assuming the task of converting the entire mankind to your belief. We are perfectly capable of studying the tens of thousands of religions in existence and choosing one if we so desire. Any attempt to try to convince us that one is better than the rest is by most adults seen as pathetic.

"Picture this if I have been given grace which I will not truely know until judgment day, and there are people who I will see going to hell asking me why I did not warn them how am I going to feel?" What if the opposite is the case, namely that you end up in an unpleasant place for having harassed your fellow human beings, have you ever taken the time to consider that possibility? A thorough study of Christianity's roots will show you that this religion was established on a dishonest foundation, to say the least. It was added core elements from earlier pagan and mystical rivals, then forced on people with a certain death for those that refused to embrace it. Not a very good start for something that pretends to be loving and caring. Proselytising is also an arrogant way to proclaim that I have found something that is more valuable than what you have and thereby degrading others and their inner thoughts to a lower level than yours in the process.

"How can I say I really love people if I stand by and do nothing?" Tough luck, honey. It's called respect.

"when people are in trouble I believe a loving person should try to help." Fair enough, but not sharing your belief can hardly be classified as in trouble.

"If you had a friend about to get ran over by a bus would you warn them?" An irrelevant and out-of-context example that cannot be used here, since it expresses a clear and imminent danger, while your fantasies about hell are imaginary to everybody but you and your co-believers.

"However maybye you know of a more loving way to share the gosphel,
maybye my approach could use some work, so help me out. If you were sharing Jesus how would you do it?" First of all: I would never try to impose my (anti-religious) opinions on anybody. If they are motivated for a dialogue, they will come to me and we may debate on equal terms, where nobody is hell-bent on converting the other. Secondly, I would never preach on an Internet forum. I think that you have received enough negative feedback to understand that it is a bad idea. You could start a real-life debate group where all kinds of beliefs are discussed on an equal footing, where opinions are exchanged in a respectful atmosphere and nobody assumes a position of supremacy, which I have to admit that you have done in this forum. Nobody is happy when someone resolutely and mercilessly attack them by claiming that what they hitherto has believed in definitely is wrong and tells them that they have to repent or else! The hidden threat at the end cannot be misunderstood and betrays a clear immaturity.

Conclusion: I think that a healthy real-life debate with a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist and an atheist would give your mind a much-needed depth and wider perspective regarding how to treat people that don't share your faith. Maybe even a psychologist could be consulted, to give you a better understanding of what exactly is going on in your mind, so that you can learn to regard your faith in light of a greater context. It may be hard to swallow, but sometimes, a brutal wake-up call may be for the best. Please realise that I would never dream of depriving you of your faith; that would be equally disrespectful of me. Instead, I just try to show you that an over-zealous approach seldom is the best choice, since it in most cases only creates conflicts and thereby a hostile climate for a fruitful dialogue. You should start by politely asking why people (refuse to) believe like they do, instead of blatantly proclaiming that you are right and they are wrong, which shuts the door to a constructive conversation with a loud bang and makes them see red. If you continue your uncompromising crusade, it will give you a lot of headache and ultimately burn you out. Believe me, I've been there and done that. It ended with me starting to question my faith and ultimately losing it in the process. Now, I really feel free, but I guess that is hard for you to understand. There are quite a lot of ex-Christians here, so please refrain from urging us to assume our former belief. That would be an ultimate insult, since we have seriously considered what you believe in and found it to not hold water when push comes to shove. So I beg you, refrain from this "warning everybody thing" and start respecting other people's decisions. Thanks for the attention.
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CoIin
CoIin: Besides the question of respect, we might also bring up the issue of scaremongering. Even a quick glance through the forums here is enough to convince anyone that there is no shortage of gullible people out there who seem willing to believe just about any absurdity.

Doulas might wish to pause and consider the psychological damage that this about hellfire could induce in such people.

It's not a point of insignificance that this inculcation usually occurs at a very young age. Richard Dawkins and others describe this as child abuse. I think they're right.
(Edited by CoIin)
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Headline
Headline: Of course it is. My son once came home from Sunday School (my husband and I never told him to go there, but his friends did, so he wanted to tag along) shaking with fear, after the teacher had talked about hell, Jesus' sacrifice, doomsday and salvation. Needless to say, perhaps, he never returned. Instead, we had a hard time making him understand that everything he had been exposed to is just opinions from superstitious people, who for some reason has taken on the task of scaring as many as possible (seemingly the younger, the better) into believeing their deeply rooted inherited fantasies.

It would have been interesting to find out how many people become psychiatric patients, suicidal and even criminals after having had such nerve-shattering experiences at a young age, particularly without a proper follow-up from a level-headed adult.

No religious doctrines should be taught to minors without a different view to balance out things. If not, they may actually believe that what they learn is really true. Such selective "truths" may very well wait until they're at least 18 and have a better ballast to handle such matters.
11 years ago Report
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Byakuya
Byakuya: i had no choice to learn about religion because although im an ahtiest ive been baptised and all that shit and went to a catholic school where it was mandatory to learn religion
but i stand by what i said that religion is just a cult and if you are religious all cults go to hell so its irrevelant
there so many flaws with religion that means all types of religion
11 years ago Report
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Fjordman
(Post deleted by staff 10 years ago)
Zadkiel
Zadkiel: Children have always posed an easy prey to gutless indoctrinators of all kinds, since they are too cowardly to approach people their own size and risk being beaten in their own game.
(Edited by Zadkiel)
11 years ago Report
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fallout
fallout: I feel so sad every time I hear about a child being abused. Almost as bad as physical abuse is religious indoctrination at a very young age. The brain becomes incapable of critical thinking and basically, your entire life is screwed. Poor kids...
11 years ago Report
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doulas4life
doulas4life: I grew up in very painful circumstances my biological father abandoned my sister, and myself. My ex stepfather was physically abusive, when I was about 12 years old my mother was addicted to drugs. And as an older sister, and a teenager I was trying to help take care of 3 younger brother and sisters when I was a teenager. Jesus gave me hope, a peace that surpasses understanding, the ability to be a better person, Jesus answered all my questions about life, Jesus answered many of my prayers, and best of all on judgment day I have reason to believe I will not end up in hell. Jesus is the best thing that ever happened to me, and I do not think I would of even survived my childhood if I had not known Jesus, One of the things that hurts my heart, and makes me sad, is thinking about the people who will be in hell, where I am sure there is no love, no beauty, no peace, no hope, If only those lost souls could know how much God loves them, and see Jesus aching heart for them, and open their hearts to see the truth, God would give them exceedingly abundantly more than they could think or ask. If only they knew how precious they were in God's sight, and what God is willing to do for them they would gladly accept Jesus. and if they knew how worthy God is of their lives, and how precious God is they would folllow God, and they would probably be saved from the horror that is hell and go to heaven a place of no more tears, a place of no more pain, a place in which righteousness dwells.
11 years ago Report
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Coffrey
Coffrey: doulas, let me ask you a question, and I don't want scripture or anything Christy or anything like that, I only want your opinion with no regard to religion, just your opinion, okay? Okay.

If you had kids (or do, I don't know), would you lock them in the basement, "where I am sure there is no love, no beauty, no peace, no hope", and torture them forever if they didn't love you?
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