"The kingdom of God, is just something for christians to hope for in the future" (Page 2)
doulas4life: Coffrey, I think you are asking me to answer without thinking about my faith or Jesus, I want to try and think about Jesus with everything I do. Also I think you are really questioning that God is good. So how about I answer what I think your real question is, you want to know Is God good? My answer is yes, God is good. Have you read the Bible? Many parts of the Bible teach God is good,
for example God saves Daniel from a lions den, God saves Noah from a flood, and how about when Jesus was crucified to save sinners like me? or should we talk about heaven and what God is going to do for the saints? Or should we talk about when God made you and gave you life? Yes coffrey God is good. plus I want to add that I believe God tries to save all who are 100% human. Let me ask you a question; do you think people in hell got there without any warning from God? Or do you think God tried to warn them many times before it happened? Personally I think God warned them.
Coffrey: First, I haven't read the whole bible, it's not exactly a page turner. But I have read enough to know that God can be whatever you want him to be. The bible is the great big book of multiple choice. If you're a bad person, you can have god agree with almost anything you do. I think Hell is the biggest sign that he ISN'T a loving god. The only sin that is unforgivable is apostasy, or not believing. Murder, rape, genocide, all those are well within God's parameters to forgive you for, but if you don't believe, you're fucked. Let's say that when you born, you were born in a house. With other people, other kids, it was a good environment and it was all good, except you never saw your parents. You would always see notes from them on things you have to do. If you didn't do them, the other people in the house would beat you up. And if you claim that it's actually those people that are writing the notes and that your parents are long gone, you get locked up in the basement forever. This is what your god and religion actually is.
Now on your interpretation. Whenever you see a plane crash with 7 survivors, you probably think "Praise Jesus they survived". The way I think about it is "Shit, 300 people just died" . When you see the flood, you think of Noah. I think of the millions that God just murdered for no good reason other than he failed and wanted to cover up his mistake. And don't even get me started on Jesus. How can someone's blood sacrifice cover for everyone else? It makes no sense at all.
By warn, what does that even mean? I mean, if apostasy is an automatic ticket to hell, and God loves me so, then wouldn't he prove to me he's real? I mean, he knows everything about me, the past, present, and future, he knows the exact amount of evidence and what evidence I would accept, all he has to do now is just give me that evidence and I escape torture. But he's not. So that means he wants me to be tortured forever. How am I supposed to view that god as good? Would you view that god as good if he wanted to torture you forever?
doulas4life: @ Coffrey
Precious soul for your sake please seek who God really is. God is not whatever we want Him to be, He made heaven and earth, fish of the sea, birds of the air, animals on land, God made lightning,snow, stars, planets,fruit and vegtables, fire, air, rain, bears, elephants, mountains,dirt, clouds,and people. God has all authority and is what He is, we as people do NOT get to decide what God is.
So think about how blessed we are God happens to be good. I think hell is a sign that God is Holy, God is loving but God is holy too.
Should a holy, sinless, perfect God let sin go unpunished, and live with sin? Should people get raped in the kingdom of God? Should people get things stolen from them in the kingdom of God? Should a loving God make a place for the saints that is filled with pain? I am thinking no, not at all. I hope you are starting to see that sin is horrible.
And yet all who are 100% human have sinned, not some, all.
Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
Romans 3:10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;"
Try and think about the worst thing someone has ever done to you, that probably does not come close to how much God hates any of my sins, or your sins.
God does not like sin, and yet He still loves us.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
God made a plan to redeem us, and save us, clean us from our sin, and allow us to be with Him forever.
Part of what happens when someone gets saved is God starts destroying the sin inside of them and they become a new creation.
2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore, if anyone [is] in Christ, [he is] a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."
That is why part of why people who have been saved make changes in their life, they repent, they are no longer murderers, or rapist because now God changed them. I hope now you understand why God will save a sinner, and judge an unbeliever.
Now I am afraid you do not understand what my faith really is. you probably will not understand until you understand who God really is.
I hope for your sake that happens sooner than later.
now as far as the flood and Noah, read these verses and you will see there was a reason for the flood, that reason is the wickedness of man.
Genesis 6:5 Then the LORD [fn]saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every intent of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
Genesis 6:6 And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
Genesis 6:7 So the LORD said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."
Now read these verses and you will see part of why God helped Noah
Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Genesis 6:9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God."
Noah was a JUST man, PERFECT in his generation. Noah WALKED with God.
The reason the blood of Jesus is able to save souls is because Jesus was not just a man, He was also the only begotten Son of God.
God created me, it is not hard to imagine God has the power to save my soul.
I think this is a definition of warn:
v. warned, warn·ing, warns
1. To make aware in advance of actual or potential harm, danger, or evil."
I do not know for sure why God does not give you the evidence you would accept, However I am going to make a guess.
I think it has to do with free will, and God not forcing you to love Him.
I also think if you have not read the whole Bible you have not been seeking Him for the evidence very much.
I am sure if you honestly seek God with all your heart you will find Him.
Jeremiah 29:13 "And you will seek Me and find [Me], when you search for Me with all your heart."
Do you think God is obligated to give the evidence you require if you do not think enough of Him to read the whole Bible?
God might because He is that loving but He does not have too.
God gave you life. If you are 100% human God went to the cross for you.
if you are 100% human and have not died yet God wants to give you eternal life.
what more do you want God to do to prove He loves you?
Or to prove that He is good?
I think you need to learn who God really is.
God does not want to torture you or me, that is why He is giving us this time to repent and believe in Him.
2Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning [His] promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us,
not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."
Coffrey: Here's my issue with who God "really is". First, we have three different distinct religion on just one single god. Yehovah, Yahweh, and Allah are all the same god, none of the this the Son, Father, Holy Spirit bullshit, they are all the same god. Yet if you look from the Old Testament (Torah) to the New Testament, God is a whole different being. If God is always right and never wrong, then why did he change his nature? Also from the liberal idea of Yahweh, he then went to the more complex Allah, demanding worship and punishment for not in this lifetime, not after. Again, all the same god, so how am I to know who God is? To break it down further, there are so many different denominations in each religion as well. Orthodox Judaism, Reformed Judaism, Hassidic Judaism, Rabbinical Judaism and so on. For the Christians, there is Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Methodist, Anglican, Presbyterian, Pietism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Seventh-day Adventists, Mormons, and whatever the fuck Jehovah's Witnesses are. With the Muslims, there's even more, Shia, Sunni, Kurds, and I would just be copying and pasting from websites on the ones I don't know. My point is, 3 religions on the same guy, and dozens of different interpretations of each religious texts which is the basis for the 3 religions.
So who really is God?
Sin I think is just a nonsense word because we have a word for bad things, they are called crimes. Sins like raping, murdering, and stealing, which with the exception of rape either of the other two could be legitimate and not bad, yeah, they're bad most of the time. But then you have nonsense sins like lust and coveting and saying bad words, or acting inappropriately or sex outside the pretext of marriage. Things that are quintessentially human. Like you said, all humans sin. But within the confines of our species, does that mean that every single person is bad? For example, what there was a crime that every person ever commits that doesn't harm anyone? It wouldn't be a crime anymore. You can't criminalize normal human behavior that doesn't harm anyone else, which is what I think sin is. It's just an excuse for the priests to tell you "You horrible little shit, you've sinned, now repent or you'll burn in hell" once they have their hooks in you that way, you'll do whatever they want.
Basically, sin is a bunch of bullshit. God programmed these things in us, if we "malfunction" and sin, it's not our fault, it's his.
There are people on this earth that still believe this world is flat, that it is not a sphere. There is so much evidence of the fact that we are a sphere, yet there are whole groups of people who deny that fact. I tell you that because not everyone who sees evidence would believe it. Not to mention all of our standards of evidence are different. For instance, you see a book that tells you, if you have a funny feeling, that's God's embrace. Then every time you have a funny feeling, you will think that's God's embrace soley based on reading it.
Also, you assume I haven't sought hard enough. Why? What makes you think I didn't want to believe? I sought and sought, but it wasn't there. I looked and found no God. Blaming me for that is like blaming the rat for not finding the cheese in the maze when the guy running the experiment never put the cheese in the maze to begin with. God isn't guessing what will convince me. God knows everything, right? There is no way he could possibly fail at convincing me he's real, so why doesn't he? Either he doesn't exist or he's hiding from me, in which case it's just as good as not existing. He knows what to convince me, yet he will not prove himself to me and for that, I go to hell. He knows that and will send me there anyway, making him one malevolent evil fucking God
doulas4life: @ Coffrey
God is not trying to confuse you, not all paths lead to salvation.
Matthew 7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide [is] the gate and broad [is] the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Matthew 7:14 "Because [fn] narrow [is] the gate and difficult [is] the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."
The devil, the flesh, and the world have been trying to bring souls to hell for years,
do you not think they will use many things to confuse you? they will use false teaching, false beliefs, false teachers and more.
Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves."
Do you really think all these beliefs with different paths to salvation are correct? Many of them contradict each other.
There is only one path to salvation and that is through Jesus
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
However I will not ask you to take my word for it, study and see for yourself.
If a belief contradicts the Bible it is not true.
For example I can tell you why I do not follow Jews who do not believe in the messiah,
its because I do believe Jesus is the messiah.
I can tell you why I do not follow what catholics believe; I believe God is jealous and does not want us praying to saints."
Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
Exodus 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness [of anything] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth;
Exodus 20:5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth [generations] of those who hate Me,"
Coffrey you have to see what belief is being true to God and if that belief contradicts the Bible then you know it is not true.
I am a believer in Jesus, I am a believer in the Bible, but I about truth not pointless tradition.
for example I no longer celebrate christmas unlike many christians because I found out the dates were most likely not correct and it most likely has a pagan babyonian history.
Those 3 religions you are talking about are not really worshipping the same god.
You want to know who God really is start with reading the whole Bible, and alot of prayer.
It is up to a holy God who by the way is smarter than us, and controls everything to decide what is sin. It is not up to us humans who by the way do not know everything, and have been corrupted by sin.
for example you might assume sex outside of marriage is not sin, or does not really hurt anybody, but I object to that and encourage you to go talk to someone who has aids, or some other sexually transmitted disease, or someone who is going through an unwanted pregnancy, or someone that got an abortion, or somone who had their heart broken.
Yes humans are bad, that is why we need a savior to begin with.
God gave us the freedom to choose good or evil, death or life, please do not blame God if you make the wrong choice. God has made us for His good pleasure and He wants our love for Him to be real, I think God does not force us to love Him because if He forced us that love would not be real, but if He gives us a choice and we still love Him that love is real.
Now listen sir, I do not believe the Bible just because I read from it, history proves many things in the Bible, archeology proves many things in the Bible, science proves many things of the Bible, geography proves many things in the Bible, plus the Bible is able to tell us what will happen in the future, and then it happens.
Well some of the reasons I am guessing you did not seek hard enough is you put in a post you did not read the whole Bible, how much could you of really been seeking if you did not read the whole Bible? Is it possible you did not want to find out God is real? and if so, why?
Are you afraid you will be unable to do what God wants? Do you know He sends us the Holy Spirit to help us obey Him. Are you afraid of judgment, I understand, me too, but do you not know God is able to forgive? Plus God does not lie. And I will tell you that people will face judgment whether they believe or not, you are going to be judged, so am I.
I am guessing you are still alive, if so God is not through with you yet, maybye there are things God is going to do for you in the future.
I will tell you that if you do end up in hell it will not be because God did anything wrong,
I am guessing God will probably of tried to warn you many times, and I am guessing you will of probably of rejected God many times. It does not have to be that way.
You can choose life, you can choose good, you can choose to love God. and God can wipe away every tear from your eyes, and bring you to a place with no more sorrow, no more pain, God is not evil, God has perfect love for you, please try and understand how much God loves you.
Combine: I have a strong distrust for people that pretend to know what God is. Trying to understand His will in terms of "religious truths" is just as speculative as it is pointless and repeating your conclusion hundreds of times over doesn't make it truer for each time…
Get real. God is whatever you want Him to be, which should be an individual matter to each person. To me, he is the creator of my crops, the provider of my food, the force in nature that gives me what I need and that's it. I don't need any religion to tell me what's right or wrong, since I am perfectly capable of finding out that for myself.
Whatever Jesus was or wasn't (God, God's son, savior, prophet, rabbi, healer etcetera) is of no interest to me, since I think that God will decide our destiny after this life based on merits rather than what we believe in, which makes religions and personal faith an unnecessary issue and a waste of time. It's enough to be grateful for the good things in life and spend your time (and whatever money you can afford) trying to help less fortunate people instead of urging your fellow human beings to repent to your personal belief.
In my eyes, preaching a message that "you must, or else" is both disrespectful and degrading, since it expresses an arrogant superiority in relation to the ones that don't want to accept it. If God is fair and just, he would never require that we embrace a belief defined by others thousands of years ago with next to no relevance in the present time.
And desperately listing passages from scriptures only betrays an insecure attitude that your point of view must be backed up and reinforced by what is intended to be thought of as a higher authority, but it is easy to see through such smoke screens and disregard it as propaganda for one particular opinion.
God is so much greater than every single religion and I have a feeling that a growing number of people has come to realize this over the last decades, when objective research has revealed that most religious elements are influences from pagan cults that have permeated modern faiths and taken the focus away from God's simplicity, which requires no priesthood, no places of worship, no liturgy, no holy scriptures and no fixed rituals. Worship God directly and look for Him in nature, instead of in outdated religious rituals.
Stormy: I have studied nature for many years (I am a meteorologist), but I can't say that I have ever seen anything that has made me associate it with God or the supernatural. Instead, I see nature in all its beauty regulating the weather according to logical mechanisms and not the whims of a vengeful deity that wants to punish mankind by creating hurricanes, floods and droughts.
doulas4life: @ Rederella
You may not be able to see Jesus right now, but that does NOT mean He is imaginary.
It also does not mean you will never see Jesus, has not God made Himself evident in creation?
Are there not things written in the Bible thousands of years ago that have come to pass?
For example Jews having a nation. Does not archeology, history, and geography prove things in the Bible. For example many cultures have a flood story, not one archeological dig has been able to disprove anything written in the Bible. How is the Bible able to tell mankind things like the world is not flat even before we know it? How did a creature as amazing as yourself get on earth to begin with? The answer God, not only does God exist but He loves you.
If you knew God you would love Him back. You probably would not see following God as theological baggage weighing you down and making your life more difficult; instead you would see Jesus as your most blessed treasure and worship God with your life.
Fully understanding God gave you your life, and that God will decide your destiny.
you see hell does exist, and here is your choice good or evil, heaven or hell.
All humans face judgment whether they want to or not.
yet because Jesus loves you Rederalla He went to the cross and was crucified for your sins,
He was wrongfully accused for you, and his blood was spilled for you. so that you might have eternal life, if indeed you are 100% human and have not died yet.
doulas4life: @ Combine
It is good that you appreciate nature, nature can show how powerful God is.
It is also good that you seem to be a hard working individual, only good things can be said about that. However please do not be decieved God is Not whatever we want Him to be.
God is what He is, we are only humans and do not get to decide that.
God made mountains, oceans, lightning, air, snow, strawberries, corn, bears, cows, fish, stars, planets, and even you, why would we ever get to decide what God is?
The answer is we do not get to decide what God is.
I will also like to point out that while doing good things is what God wants us to do,
and in the book of James it does say faith without works is dead. Even charity can not save us if we do not repent of our sins. For one thing we do not truely know what is good or bad; we must seek God to know these things. For another thing our best deeds, the most righteous things we can do are like nothing before a completely holy God. I have done things like gone on a mission trip where the group helped homeless people, but not because I was under some impression it would save my soul. I did it for love of God, you see when you love God and have a relationship with God you find yourself doing the works your talking about because you love God and you love people, Not because you think charity can save you.
whatever good a person thinks they have done is not going to help them unless they seek God and know God.
please know it is not my heart to be disrespctful, degrading, self righteous, haughty, or any corrupt thing like that when I am trying to tell a person about God.
1Corinthians 9:16 For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for necessity is laid upon me; yes, woe is me if I do not preach the gospel!
Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore [fn]and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo,I am with you always, [even] to the end of the age." Amen. [fn]
Not only does God tell His followers to preach, but how can I truely say I love people if I do not warn them? I do love them, and that is why I must tell them the truth.
Its not important to me if I win a popularity contest, but if people die and go to hell, and I do nothing to warn them to seek God who can save them, I might blame myself. and they will be in alot of trouble that is important to me.
nkn: Jesus said I and my Father are one. If God can be known ,He will be God no longer.Knowledge is Limitation.
Coffrey: 1. Not disproving something isn't proving it. Russell's teapot is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others, specifically in the case of religion. Russell wrote that if he claims that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the grounds that they cannot prove him wrong.
2. Greeks knew the world was round even before the Jews and Christians. When the Greeks saw that, when looking at the horizon, you never saw completely across it, that things can into view as one would look at a sphere, they concluded that the earth was spherical. So you CAN know it without the bible.
3. No one else can pay for someone else's mistakes. If I have done something wrong, the correct thing to do isn't to sacrifice someone for that wrong doing. Also human sacrifice should be irrelevant to a god of love and forgiveness. See, back in the day of the Roman and pagan gods, they thought that the gods were vengeful and bloodthirsty demanded animal (sometimes human) sacrifice to keep them at bay. If your god demands blood, no matter whose it is, for payment of perceived wrong doing, you cannot claim your god is of love and forgiveness, or else he would forgo the bloodletting and just forgive everyone.
I am absolutely NOT deceived. God can really be interpreted and worshiped in many ways. You wrote it yourself, it's not up to us humans to decide what He is. And to me, He is definitely not anything connected to any religion, which all confine Him to their own dogmas and definitions, which is both unnatural and shameful in my book.
I am pleased that you take a humble stance, although you in a way seem to come across as some kind of a preacher and I strongly dislike being preached to by anybody, no matter what their message consists of. You have only your religion - which I don't recognize as any kind of authority - as a reference point when you claim that God commands you to preach, so I regard that as a completely worthless issue.
Neither do I find it particularly tasty to be addressed by passages from religious scriptures. To me, all religions and their tools are leading people astray from the true path, which is a direct contact with The Most High, the creator of the universe and its supreme power. I think that the old Gnostics were closer to the truth than any modern religion, although I don't agree with everything they professed, either. The main thing to me is that unlike the Roman Christians, they didn't literalize life's mysteries and created their own religious truths, which are only true to those believing in them.
Theists are never popular in debates with believers of other things and non-believers, this I know from bitter experience. Neither am I concerned that the soul should be saved through the sacrifice of Jesus. If God is truly good, which I believe that he is, he would never have demanded such a bloody act. That's why I regard Jesus as a First Century rabbi, who was crucified by the Romans for being a Jewish rebel and nothing else. If you take the time to study Judaism 2000 years ago, you will discover that no man could claim to be God or the Son of God in the later Christian meaning of the word. I couldn't agree more. To believe that God has biological children the way Christianity regard Jesus is utterly blasphemy to me and a totally misguided concept that I distance myself from with.
And the hell that you refer to only exists in the minds of its believers, too. To me, it's inconceivable that God can send any of his beloved creatures to such a horrible place, which therefore is just as man made as all religions. Instead, I have a feeling that the afterlife is something different and much better than what any religion teaches.
Don't blame yourself for anything. Continue to believe in God and do good things, but don't try to convert people to something as speculative as Christianity. I will pray that you eventually see the light and leave all such mythical notions behind.
Coffrey: Christianity is based on a real life figure, Jesus Christ. For any Christian that wants to convert, especially the ones that claim there is ton of evidence for Christ and the events in the bible, all I ask is that you prove that Jesus Christ actually existed to start with, without using the bible. Then you start trying to prove that he did miraculous things. But first, prove Christ existed in the first place.
xapim: is there a saying from when the roman holy empire was conquer'd and detroyed that says "may the lord see it, and revenge it "
xapim: i think also there was a roman order from "constantius 2nd" around 350ish ce and in 2008 what was belived as St. andrew was returned...,
fallout: Many of the Roman emperors were deified and worshiped. Augustus was said to be born of a virgin. Gaius Caligula even deified his horse. In the context of these and other pagan myths, it's no wonder some people believed the Christian myths about Jesus.
Zadkiel: There are many mind-altering drugs floating around. According to some users, they open channels to a higher insight and a superior spiritual realm. Such substances have been frequently used by religious leaders in more primitive societies, like shamans and so-called "medicine men". What they describe from their strange experiences sounds like delirious ranting to us, but it somehow makes perfect sense to them.
Gygaxx: Judged by the content of their posts, there are probably several habitual smokers of funny substances among us.
fallout: I've read that some members of old mystical sects and cults injected essences from poisonous mushrooms to reach a higher consciousness, where anything was possible, like conversations with gods and heroes.
Bodmin: I know several people that claim to have conversations with unseen entities. As far as I know, they manage this feat completely without ingesting mushrooms or abusing other strange substances.
Byakuya: then those people are deluded then all you have is there word that they have seen them its not hard to lie and make something up i can say i saw a leprachaun in my room last night would you believe that because no one else saw it