did you know ... ? (Page 2)

Comrade_: ok, I'll repost my question properly...

Which was written first the "Bible" beginning from the first scrolls as it seems the book is written in a flow and not a series of books held together, starting from..Moses (idk who was the first writer) and ending with the last writer..(after Jesus..idk who, might be one of his followers) or the "Koran" written by Prophet Muhammad and some of the Gospels from Jesus.

I'm asking from a historical view and not a religious one.

*ps: by written I mean penned Historically
*edit: I don't want to google since there might be a million and one religious things I'd have to read throu..I know the timeline of the historical scrolls but not the time-line of the koran.

Comrade_: The historical writers of the "Bible" ranged from fishermen to Judges..different men from different standings and educational backgrounds and different times in history.

flashie: as far as i understand moses had the torah or old testament which predates the other 2 books and is the basis of the jewish faith, next came jesus and his gospels, which morphed into whats know as new testament.

after the gospels became the new testament and coupled with the torah we find its become the bible, which was again edited and and had books removed from it to become the protestant version.

and the koran is the last in the series 1500 years ago.

flashie: 'The historical writers of the "Bible" ranged from fishermen to Judges..different men from different standings and educational backgrounds and different times in history.'

i didnt know this, where did you learn that from bro?

i gotta do some errands but ill be back in a while

pz

Comrade_: Historically, David and Solomon wrote they were kings...the men that followed Jesus were fishermen they also wrote something, Jesus wrote and he was a carpenter...you can research the other writers. I doubt the writtings appeared from one person and from the timelines it was written it has to be different men and different educational backgrounds.

So the Koran is a continuation of the Bible?

Thumbsy: They share some common figures, like Abraham, Moses and Jesus.

Comrade_: But the story is different, if one claims Jesus was a Messiah and the other Jesus was a Prophet..and some other differences. I'm wondering why the collection of books within the Bible seems to flow smoothly throughout the periods but the Koran comes in as a little puzzling at the end?

duncan123: the old testment (?) and other parts are records of historys recorded
in scroll, sometimes edited parts of other scrolls which have also survived.

it is a history with the life of jesus as an important part but it also has a narrator who hinges the begining and the end where it predicts the end and other events that run alongside the christian events.

Comrade_: I think Christianity is a broad one, since some says both Old & New and other say only New.

Comrade_: Is the old & the new make the physical Bible?

Flac: If you by "physical" means "Christian", then the answer is "yes".

The Jewish Bible = the Old Testament + the 4 Maccabean Books.

duncan123: the angel gabrial appears in both -i read at wilileaks



.....and a terrible hissing thing too

flashie: y the old test is essentially the torah, tho im not sure if the torah that jews read is identical. also there are different versions of the bible including new and old testament, even the freemason use a masonic bible which differs slightly from the standard king james version or roman catholic one (which i think is the oldest, but still heavily edited by Paul of saul or st paul as catholics call him).

the koran is a continuation of these books and is understood if you read it and by muslims to be the last book. the general idea is that the torah and gospels of jesus were meant for a certain time in history, renewed as new books came.

koran states that abraham, jesus, noah, moses etc were all muslims, not to be mistaken by the arabic language (muslim translates as a person who submits to god) so in the times of moses jesus etc they would have used a different word to 'muslim' as their language wasnt arabic, but that word would mean the same or similar. like i said before, the word christian was never used in jesus' life time.

also the koran was revealed according to the story over 13yrs in parts, and the order of the chapters in the koran is different to the order which the verses came to muhammad. the 1st chapter mohammed received is somewhere in the middle of the book. and the koran wasnt actually a book to begin with but rhyming verses like poetry which were memorised and later written down. which makes the koran difficult to tamper with as since it came ppl have memorised the rhymes so any editing would be noticed glaringly.

and yes the koran states that god is without a son or any human attributes (much like the god in the torah/old test) and that jesus did have a miraculous birth but was a human not a god and didnt die on a cross as in the koranic version thats an insult to god and his prophet, that god is above making errors like humans and wouldnt need to sacrifice a son for his mistake.

it makes sense to me, and is a bit like me showing you my pet rabbit and saying 'this is my son'. which of course is preposterous.

and also some biblical characters are described as prophets. for example solomon (who i named my son after ) is a king in the bible and features heavily in masonic teachings, but in the koran hes known as a prophet too. there have been more than 1000 prophets according to koran.


all this is standard history and common knowledge if you seek it.

there are however many books in the vatican and masons have lots of books regarding this history that us little ppl dont see and is kept away from the masses only read by chosen few.

which leads me onto the historian michael tsarion again...

if youre interested id urge you to get hold of his red ice archive radio shows with michael tsarion, its available in its complete form on torrent sites. and maybe in parts on the red ice site.

tsarion is an irish pagan and historian, he has some really interesting knowledge complied from various sources and his stuff regarding the real history of mankind is mind blowing. he talks at length about ancient egypt and its effect and influence on the official stories were taught to belive today.

i suggest tsarion because i dont want anyone to think or certain individuals to be able to accuse me of being narrow minded or blinkered or accuse me of being a fanatical brainwashed muslim because im not.

theres lots of cool info about nowadays that was kept secret for hundreds of years, personally i think its highly interesting educational and entertaining (if u like that kinda stuff) to read what the christians, jews, muslims, masons and new age pagans like tsarion have to say regarding our real history and the so called 'official' his story presented to us.

the stuff about aton the pharoah is where im at about now and its really mind blowing shizzle.

peace

all with exactly the same message of tawhid.

SPIRIT-ONE: usually when a story is told by many and it changes to suit the needs of the teller ,maybe it may be a lie ,such as Jes-s ,christians say he is god incarnate ,jews don't say anything about him [except completed jews] Muslims claim he is one of their Prophets ,We Yahwist know no such person existed in history .

flashie: 'the angel gabrial appears in both -i read at wilileaks



.....and a terrible hissing thing too'

@duncan, yes the muslim scholars argue that jibraeel is an angel (not the baby with wings type) who has communicated with humans on behalf of god since adam. they also argue that the holy spirit christians belive in is in fact jibraeel.

flashie: @Spirit

sure,youve opened my eyes to lots of knowledge about history too bro. i missed out dead sea scrolls and whatnot. the yahwist faith seems to have immense knowledge which can be cross referenced with the other stuff ive mentioned.

i find all this stuff fascinating, and even if some of it or most is lies or hype its still very interesting the history behind that hype and the intentions of the authors.

theres much to be learnt and understood, i wish i had time to study it all much more.

flashie: Muslims on wire if ive made any mistakes regarding the religion pls correct me also.

pz

flashie: Spirit, then who is the messianic person Yahwists know about?


have you ever come across the egyptian dude Aton?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aten

some ppl say he was a man who ruled egypt...

"Some scholars have speculated that Psalm 104 may have been influenced by this hymn."

Flac: @Flashie.
The Hebrew Bible is actually called Tanakh and consists of the following parts: 1. The Torah (teaching), Greek name Pentateuch (five books). The first five books of the Old Testament. 2. The Neviim (prophets), that is Joshua, Judges, Samuel (2 books), Kings (2 books) + all the prophets except Daniel. 3. The Ketuvim (writings), which include the rest of the books.

Aten was the Egyptian version of the Hebrew Patriarchs' god called Adon - the Lord (also Adonai - my Lord). He was brushed the dust off and elevated to the only permitted god by Pharaoh Amonhotep 4 (Akhenaten) around 1350 BC. Many scholars now see Aten as the precursor to the later Israelite deity, which must have included some core elements from Aten, since the similarities between the two are far too extensive to be coincidental.

"Some scholars have speculated that Psalm 104 may have been influenced by this hymn." - I am sure that this must have been the case.

flashie: thanks for the enlightenment Flac. thats interesting, if i might pick your brain a bit more...?


could Aten be what masons take as Lucifer (not in the Christian sense) but meaning the bringer of light?

have you heard this theory? ive heard that masons being secretive and all are quite happy for ppl out of the club to belive that lucifer is an evil goat etc when infact its nothing of the sort according to them?

i have a thirst for knowledge

kettle: So do I, Flashie.

The real origin of Adon/Aten was a historical person (a king) named Tammuz, who lived in Mesopotamia around 4000 BC. He was later deified and worshiped as Dumuzi by the Babylonians and Attis by the Canaanites, before some Greek and Hebrew sects stated to call him Adonis and Adonai, respectively.

SPIRIT-ONE: Flashie ,we believe in one called YAHoshua the Messiah ,if Jesus were the Messiah and claimed to come in his fathers 'Name' ,his father would be called God-Jesus.

Yahoshua came preaching in His Father's 'Name' . YAH-Savior

He is the one in scripture ,but His entire life story and teachings have been erased from the Bible ,Highjacked by the Jewish scribes and interpolated with the Jesus death ,resurection and all [a familiar thing to the Pagans and Heathens of the day] ,The people mostly worshiped crucified deities ,some were Sun God worshipers .

Adam called upon His heavenly Father Whom He knew as Yahweh in 4003 B.C.

duncan123: what about the "hissing" thing which googled threads say "phub" says would be around towards the end?