Believe It or Not: You were Born Muslim!

Rena787: It's called Fitrah

Talent_M: True...The Prophet (SAAW) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah" "by nature", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?"

Malobear: Interesting idea. Please explain your theory and how you think it applies to the native population of the Americas.

The_Under_Dog: Wrong.

Everyone is born an atheist. Then taught religion, whether its christianity, islam, or whatever.

A child who was never taught about islam would not even know about the concept. So there is no way people are born muslim.

StuckInTheSixties: Wrong.

Everyone is born an agnostic. Then taught religion, whether its christianity, islam, or whatever (or atheism).

Do you really think a baby has a conviction that there is no God, or is it more likely a baby doesn't have the slightest idea?

Hence, the baby is agnostic.

Geoff: Sorry, SITS. I must disagree with you there. Atheism isn't believing that God does not exist, but a lack of belief in a God (in a passive sense rather than active - active denial is anti-theism).

Agnosticism is technically the belief that the existence or non-existence of God can not be proven.

A baby is born without the concept of belief, ergo humans are all born as atheists.

StuckInTheSixties: Yeah, you're right. Technically.

The point of view I was ascribing to a baby is the "Well, f@x@!?! Who knows?!? I dunno?!? How the hell am I supposed to know that?!?

English lacks the word to SPECIFICALLY describe that point of view, rather than lumping it in with other points of view that are similar and related, but nevertheless, distinctly different.

Goddam language!

Geoff: Yes, I agree - my point was entirely based on semantics rather than challenging the core thrust of either your post or The_Under_Dog's.

I certainly agree that all religious beliefs are learn and not inherent.

Although there is some evidence to suggest that there is a basic morality which is an emergent behaviour of social interaction. //Edit - as demonstrated by studies into instinctive reactions to moral dilemmas carried out on samples from around the world in entirely different social/religious groups, including remote tribes who have been given the very least exposure to monotheistic faith. My point in raising this was that we don't need God to learn the difference between right and wrong.

Cohen & Stewart described the social education of children as being largely accidental. Parents teach their children far more through unconscious example than conscious tutoring. They referred to it as the 'make a human being kit', being made up of a wide range of actions and activities, believes and prejudices, and the parents religious leanings (regardless of the denomination) were a large part of that - although by the time the child reaches adulthood this may serve to be a negative example.

Talent_M: Geo my dear, our life is all about teaching, nobody is educated in born.

Geoff: Rereading your comments, with some filtering for grammar --

Are you suggesting that raising a child in any faith other than Islam, is in some way 'mutilating' the child?

Rena787: Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said: "Every child is born on the "fitrah" (natural inclination) of "Islam" (surrender, submission and peace to the Creator on His Terms). And it is their parents who raise them up to be Jews, Christians or fire worshippers."

As for the people who come back to Islam, i like to use the word "revert" as opposed to the word "convert" as it more suits the occasion of a person returning back to his natural condition at birth. The baby is born in true surrender, submission, obedience and peace with his Creator. And this is the desirable position of the Muslim, to be in peace and submission to the Will of Allah

Geoff: **sneezes**
Ha-haa-haaa-buuuuullshhhiiittt!

StuckInTheSixties: cough cough cough bullshit cough cough cough

StuckInTheSixties: Seriously, Rena, you've posted some REALLY moronic content in this Forum over the months, but that one is at, or near, the top of the list. The arrogance of your words (if they are yours at all) is stunning.

StuckInTheSixties: I checked. Like I thought, Rena copy/pasted that bullshit.

Geoff: Yes, from IslamTomorrow[dot]com

Once again, the theist fails to formulate their own thought.

hungryJon: I WAS CERTAINLY NOT BORN A MUSLIM, JUST ASK MY MOM!!!

(what a load of crapp)

Geoff: Colon - not sure who is the subject of your unspoken word.

For the theist, arrogance is an epithet they will never admit to, they are always speaking with the words of their god. Self-righteous prick is a good term, as they can rarely denounce such a claim without seeming to be exactly what they have been accused of.

For the atheist, arrogance is only an insult if they are guilty of copypasta and not being able to think for themself. If their words are the consequence of their own thought, then arrogance is misapplied (conceit, perhaps not), especially as the atheist (with no 'divine' text for inspiration) will often admit to being at fault if it is proved to them.

Geoff: Rena was copy/pasting from elsewhere.

As was Talent_M.


It was propaganda, and not personal experience.

Malobear: Rena and Talent m still how all this could be said about the native people of the Americas??

hope_joy80: This thread is v.important...just wanna express an opinion here,

*my understanding of the whole point* -> Correct me if I'm wrong

Every man is born with the ability of believing in the existence of the Creator..

Then they turn to religions, as you can see there are many religions,,,Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Baha'i ...etc..

why there are so many? why do you think?.... Because the nature of humans...

All humans are born with the ability in believing the existence of the Creator..

It's the mystery the human brain...
The Lord placed the code in the brains so we can worship Him through religious..

I know that both atheist and theist will not like what I said...
but that's what I think!
I think that the human brain is an ambiguous miracle...