do muslims and hindus and sihks and...

Garo_Ra: do muslims and hindus and sihks and everyother religion from third world countries know that once they come to the western world many deconvert or become more moderate and their children are less likely to be religious?

once they aren't forced to be religious and they are given proper educations they lose their religion.

I'm a member of an atheist group at my university and there are 6 former muslims involved, many of whom weren't even born here, and one who came here just for his studies from Lebanon

how does that make you feel if you are a religious person from such countries? surely you must admit that freedom and education create atheists.

The black havik: So...your saying we need to take down freedom and education?

beloved_azi: bro garo_ra there is alot to talk with u ..interesting.. i hv seen people who go to western countries slowly start moving from their religion..no it means that they start being weak..and there are some who are strong no matter where they are and what their surrounding are.

The black havik: Did you just seriously call having a change of ideals weak?

beloved_azi: but people with less knowledge make you an atheists and people who keep learning and go deep with their knowledge makes you a believer. and if you see i dont knw if u saw..bt i hv seen people especially in the field of science, anatomy, doctor who keep learning and increase their knowledge start believing there is creator..

The black havik:

Garo_Ra: that's the typical counter argument. they're just "weak".

but it's nonsense to say that. In many countries in the middle east you are literally FORCED to be a Muslim, you have no choice. Atheism is actually ILLEGAL in some countries in the middle east. And the education is quite bad in those regions because they are poor countries with corrupt governments.

It's no secret that the western world has invented every modern device, cars, computers, and we have advanced science and math significantly.

I really feel bad for you if you actually believe that simply being born into a religion and being forced to be religious by your family and country is "strong" faith.

beloved_azi: there was once a debate betwn atheists and a beleiver in one god.the atheists were punctual to the gathering where the debate takes place.& the beleiver was late.when he was asked to explain for his late arrival..do you know what answer her gave? he said tht there was a river which he had to cross and all of sudden the woods gathered by themselves and became a boat by themselves and it took some time..so thts y he was late.and everyone broke into laughter saying that he was a fool..how can a boat create itself??? then the believer started laughing and said " u laugh and dont want to believe that a boat got built by itself but u want to believe that everything in this whole universe including us human being were created ourself?" dear atheists brother and sister you dont have to accept with what i say..its just that im giving my opinion..if somepeople feel irritated. not offending anyone..atheists are good that at list they believe that there cannot be many god..im so happy ..bt they agree there is no god..now there is few words to complete tht sentence but expect for one god."there is no god but one"agreeing to it and not agreeing is peoples wish.and may almighty show everyone the correct path.

Garo_Ra: "but people with less knowledge make you an atheists and people who keep learning and go deep with their knowledge makes you a believer. and if you see i dont knw if u saw..bt i hv seen people especially in the field of science, anatomy, doctor who keep learning and increase their knowledge start believing there is creator.."



LOL you are really stupid if you actually think that. I really pity you. you clearly have no education whatsoever. have a good day. I don't talk to ignorant people.

The black havik: Adam West once fought against a Baphomet while riding Bruce Campbell like a horse.
Did that actually happen? No.
Did your story happen? No.
I can pull literally thousands of insane little stories out of my head about things that may or may not of happened.
Same with every form of religion.
Just one stupid and logically impossible story after another.
If you are religious that's fine.
But don't you f%@~y&# dare insult another human being that does't share your beliefs by stating they have less knowledge.

Garo_Ra: that is the most ridiculous and ignorant position towards atheism I have ever heard.

do you even understand the laws of thermodynamics?

are you 12 years old or something? you are a complete joke. just stop trying.

beloved_azi: haha..u say that im forced into my religion..i chose my religion..and i like to agree that no one can force anyone into any religion..there was a time when people were forced to convert into christianity.but according to islam you shouldnt force anyone even to enter islam.And i think i should say if im being forced or not..and not you brother and i think..im not forced..i hv the freedom in islam to choose what i want.nd i have made the right choice.no regrets.may god show u too the correct path.u dont have to look other people to know about a religion.and talking about if arab countries are developed or not...its not because of their religion..the things is they are not following correctly their religion..if they would have followed good they would hv been too developed like western countries.do u knw who found numerals ? do u knw bro? the actual founder is a brother in islam.and now the media is such that the islamic history filled with knowledge are unknown or hidden to people.you can find lots of scientific facts in Quran which was unknown to people even b4 few centuries.when there was no embyology,do u kw how Quran clearly says about human development?pls make sure to read my blog.the thing is the muslims arent pursuing what they should.but those who knew how to follow their religion of islam have been successful.but they are unknown to people.one day i will bring out the fact to you how many were in history who helped us with some knowledge which we think is actually discoverd by a non muslim.

beloved_azi: no im not criticizing or hurting anyone..i said that i respect people who are atheists you know y? because im glad that they dont say that there are many gods.im happy with that.im not joking here.there are people who says there are many religions and many gods..in that case i respect people who are atheists.bt saying that there is no god at all...tht is somethng to think about.as we cannot create ourself.how can we? And i dont believe that human beings were ape if ur about to say that.we are no apes..we wernt...and many scientist now say that darwins theory was wrong...its not a FACT...so how are we existing today?whats the purpose of existence today?and were do the souls go after one dies?

beloved_azi: am i with less knowledge or not you will come to know one day.

Garo_Ra: no. had you not been born into an unfree and poor muslim country you would not be muslim.

and arabic numerals actually are not arabic. they originate from multiple sources of hundreds of years including a very important contribution from modern day eastern india, and other sources. The ancient greeks invented math and already could do complex formulas long before arabic numerals came into usage. so what you said is meaningless.

and regarding the quran showing scientific knowledge before humans discovered it, that's just utter nonsense. every single claim of that has been proven as wrong.

I have debated muslims hundreds of times at school and none of them are as dumb as you. I really pity you.

The black havik: Well then don't state "People with less knowledge make you an atheist"
That is just straight up insulting us.
The belief of many various deities is still far more acceptable than there simply being one.
A group of higher beings that oversee certain parts of existence that have flaws themselves sounds far better than just one supreme deity that controls all and is incapable of fault.
At no point has any atheist ever stated we humans created ourselves.
I suggest you read up on what the concept of evolution is.
Sorry if I came off a bit harsh in that last post but don't just freaking say we are not as knowledgeable as people with faith.

The black havik: "And if ye are in doubt ... then produce a surah of the like thereof"
Alright then, if the Quran says that we can make up our own religions to see how well they stack up against it I think I might give that a try.
I am going to create my own religion!
Results will be posted once I've got a decent one worked out.

Garo_Ra: you're a creationist?



Each time you speak you keep getting dumber and dumber. I really really really pity people like you. You never got to be free and have access to knowledge. You clearly aren't educated. Everything you say is so amateurish and idiotic.

What more proof is there that Islam is stuck in the 14th century than people like you. You should destroy your computer because it must be black magic!!!

The black havik: Once there was a T.V show about a Robot that solved paranormal mysteries for President Lincoln.
His head was detachable and was capable of being placed on other bodies earning him the name "Screw-on head".
Screw-on head's former butler became bitter towards him and turned evil becoming Emperor Zombie.
Zombie would then kidnap Screw-on head's lover Patience and turn her into his vampire slave.
Screw-on head along with his current butler M.R Groin are contacted by Lincoln to stop Zombie's latest diabolical plot to unleash an ancient Aztec god.
I say we find the man responsible for this show and worship him.
I mean come on this is the best freaking idea for a T.V show ever made!
It's a freaking robot that solves mysteries for Abraham Lincoln!

Yan26: Garo_Ra - First thing what Europeans call Hinduism is not a religion like Christianity or Islam it is instead am amalgamation of different philosophies. A lot of these Philosophies include atheism.
Second - Most Hindus( I repeat MOST not ALL) are moderate in their observance of religious practices which actually differs from household to household. So people who come from India have not usually been forced into holding beliefs.
Third - I have actually quite a few friends who live abroad. Most of these people would never visit temples( except on the eve of exams or results) . However on reaching the West they start doing so. Reason- they want to preserve their Indian culture against the immoral western culture or simply because it helps them stay connected to India.

So while what you say may hold true for some Indians who were forced by their parents and so break free at the first opportunity. The reverse is true for most of the moderate people they become even more religious for fear of losing their Indian identity.

beloved_azi: so u people think u are so intelligent..grt..but u people are bit rude..and have a bad thinking habit to take everything thing negatively.i could do the same like you.i could also say"u are insulting every religious people" it depends on how u take it.but im not dumb to think like that.so this is how toooo intelligent people call others when they talk their opinion as " dumb, ignorant,stupid,illiterate, uneducated"its because u took the wrong meaning that im not respecting your view ..wake up and smell the coffee..it is how u think and not what i said..if u think im dumb then this dumb girl doesnt know how to hurt people word by word by saying others as "dumb illiterate,uneducated"

beloved_azi: In 1641, Harvey’s statement according to which the origin of every living thing was an egg, and saying that the embryo underwent transformations, passing through stages of development, was one of the major contributions to the advancement of science. In the 17th century, when man already had the microscope at this disposal, the respective roles of the egg and of the sperm were topics of discussion. Bonnet *******793) speculated that female eggs consisted of a countless number of smaller eggs, on inside the other, and generalized on the “pre formation theory”, which maintains that a child arises from an adult in miniature contained within the egg, and he applied this theory to all animals. This hypothesis found many adherents in the 18th century. Men, some thousand years prior to the 18th century, had been acquainted with the Quran. What was said in it about the reproduction of the human organism was rendered in a clear expression that was to take man centuries to confirm. Keith Moore, anatomy professor in the Toronto University of Canada says that the information contained in the Quran about embryology cannot be accounted for by the data available in the 7th century. He goes further and says that, even a century back, this was hardly known. Only today are we in a position to understand what the verses of the Quran meant. Thanks to the development of modern embryology.NOW AM I DUMB ILLITERATE?...IM ONE OF THE PERSON WHO RESPECT SCIENCE AND KEEP LEARNING TO FIND OUT THE TRUTH..NOT KEEPING MYSELF INSIDE A SHELL.Im a student of comaparitive religion.if there is no god then im ready to accept that.but i have to find myself the truth.I believe in science that is why i believe that there is god..i believe in thermodynamics, embryology,anatomy,geographical science..and when i started learning and educating myself i found out that there is a God.and if u call me stupid then which is discovered not so many years ago is ..everything is said in a book 1400 years ago when there was no advancement of science..who wrote that book?U mean to say that an illiterate person wrote everything so correctly when there was no advancement of science,when there was no one in the field of science to get advanced so much.when there was no microscope,micro cam's..and that is the only book in history which is in the pure form until now..and try to bring a book like that you would never be able to do that...i challenge you.you can never ever..that too when there was no science development imagine a book talks about BIG BANG,embryology, about evaporation and rain,about mountains, about two sea that doesnt get mixed..and everything is accurate you will never able to point out a single mistake.i challenge you

StuckInTheSixties: beloved_azi says:
"i hv seen people who go to western countries slowly start moving from their religion..no it means that they start being weak..and there are some who are strong no matter where they are and what their surrounding are."

So ...

If I was raised in an atheist family, and followed that belief into adulthood, and moved to Oman, and then I started to read the Koran, and converted to Islam ...

... would that mean I was weak?

beloved_azi: and when did i disrespect towards atheism? does saying that "i respect atheist" mean im a joke? so this is how knowledgable you if you call me a dumb? but i think there is a prob that you people though good at science are unable to understand a person's point of view.it just because you think that way and not that i said it that way.and if you read my comment you will find that im emphasizing that no one should force a religion.and how can you say that im forcing a religion and disrespecting others?too bad..believing in science as well as you should have the capability to understand what other people really meant.and not take everything negatively..faults are thick when love is thin..and jst bcos one person is ignorant and uneducated u would leave them and say i dont talk to people who are illiterate?so this is how u learned? but this dumb girl as you called dont leave or disrespect people and call other as uneducated even if they make mistake..i try to help them not hurt them.it depend on you wether to take things in a positive way and have a friendly conversation or jst hurt other and call them as ignorant and uneducated.

StuckInTheSixties: Wow ... I ask a simple question, and ...

Garo_Ra: ok azi I have a few comments

1) I specifically said that your view on evolution were stupid. Clearly you don't understand evolution or you would accept it.

watch this:


2) The egg thing is wrong. It was proven to be an exaggeration of the text. Also, why would it be such a trivial matter? Why not explain atoms and nuclear fission?

3) You have to understand atheism from an intellectual position instead of casting it off as nonsense. You clearly don't understand intellectual atheism.