Heaven Vs Hell with humans in the middle

Hyenablood: here's a crazy topic idea thing. What if all of heaven managed to 'conqure' or get rid of hell. Just go down there and slaughter all the demons and stuff. What would happen to the earth ? to humans ? would paradise happen ? would the power of 'goodness' and light and peace become too much and doom us all to evenually die off ?

DawnGurl: "Heaven" would cease to exist since Hell defines its parameters as well as its own. Good needs Evil to exist. Up needs down and wrong needs right. They define each other. You cant have one without the other.

Enough serious chatter; pass the cupcakes.

Comrade_: I'll comment for the argument's sake.

I'm not sure it will cease to exist, as 'Heaven" is generally defined as a physical place verses a philosophical concept.
But I do agree that these things define each other, but they don't create each other's existence. I'll explain what I mean. The important thing is an entity's existence from that we create a definition or a word to describe it. Existence will still 'be', even without a definition/ comparison or a regulator...the tree still falls whether someone hears it/ acknowledges it/ defines it or not, likewise "good" will still be there just we'd not be aware of it or hold a definition of it. It will be a norm.

antonello: Without hell, there would be nothing to save us from, so religions would become totally irrelevant. This alone makes it clear to me that both concepts were man made in the first place.

Corwin: It would be a shame to get rid of Hell... that's where all the cool people go when they die.

lori100: ummmm, Corvin,.....what are you doing loitering and smoking.....?? Don't you have an essay due today........???

Corwin: Dang...... busted......

Zanjan: Jack: "as 'Heaven" is generally defined as a physical place ..."

Who defines it as that anymore?? Maybe some out of touch Catholic Priests.

I went to a public funeral a couple weeks ago; it wasn't in a church because the deceased had wanted neutral territory. Since his family were of all different beliefs, it took place in a funeral home. The deceased was Catholic so a Priest gave a sermon - the most inappropriate one I'd ever heard. I wont go into that, but he's talking about heaven and hell, saying "You don't want to go to hell because it's hot there.

Was hard to believe anyone could be so backwards in this day and age. I wonder what a priest would know of hell anyway.

Heaven and hell are states of mind - not physical places. Your soul can't go to a physical place - not now, not when you die either.

Furthermore, heaven doesn't get rid of hell - you do.

Hyenablood: intresting, this was just a fictional story idea I came up with one day. The idea of " what if the angels of heaven somehow managed to destroy hell ? what would happen to earth and the humans ? " Keep in mind it's a FICTIONAL idea.
I figured I'd post it here to see what everyone came up with.

Comrade_:
Zanjan, all religious people do define it as a place (spiritual/physical) doesn't matter, but they do put it as a place that someone is going to or where angels/God reside and not as a philosophical thought/concept. It is also put forward as that in religious books.

Corwin: If it's a great piece of fiction we're after, I would suggest that with the destruction of Hell, all the demons and tormented souls find themselves homeless and descend onto Earth, and take over. It would have it's pros and cons... you could go see Jimmy Hendrix in concert again, but all the evil conquerors and dictators would take rule over their respective territories and wage war with each other... with all of Humanity caught in the middle of the unholy battles that would ensue... with no idea how to destroy that which is already dead......
Oh, and the bad guys would all have newly acquired super-powers given to them by the Dark Lord himself, and amplifying their existing evil talents.

Hmmmm....... maybe Ironman would team up with Spiderman and save the day somehow.
Ironman could use his Arc-Reactor technology to open up a newly created porthole into a new fiery dimension where all the evil could be banished..... with the new hitch, that it would now be courts of Man that would be left to decide who burns in this new Hell we had created... and Man would do battle with themselves for the following 1000 years to decide who will hold the keys to the evil porthole, and hold the powers of eternal damnation to enslave Mankind.

That would leave plenty of room for sequels.......

Here's a good title ---- "Hellstorm - The Lords of the 9th Dimension"

Hyenablood: wow Corvin, are you a writer ? or just plain creative ? sheesh, my mesly idea was that the dimention of hell was destroyed, nearly all the demons killed, the 'guests' killed. But your idea is much better with the court of man thing. Iron man and spiderman wouldn't be in my story, I don't use heros everyone else uses. Very good creative powers there corvin, very good.

Zanjan: Jack: "all religious people do define it as a place (spiritual/physical) doesn't matter........ that someone is going to or where angels/God reside and not as a philosophical thought/concept. It is also put forward as that in religious books. "

I think spiritual/physical does matter because there's a big difference between place and space. Scriptures don't use the words 'space, area, locale, surface, region, tract, field....etc - nothing that points to physical characteristics of heaven and hell. They use metaphors to convey a feeling, that's all.

All Holy Books define "place" as a state of being and as a rank, measured by nearness to God.

So, Hyenablood, it would be impossible to completely eliminate the existence of Hell - as you may have heard, every angel has to walk through hell first - that's the training ground.

Scriptures say man can beat the devil if he wants to; they also say mankind will advance until it reaches a divine civilization where the devil will be locked up for all of humanity. We're all tired of hearing of wars - nothing new there. I love sci fi but am sick of aliens always being unfairly represented now as giant lizard-insects oozing green slime, bent on destroying the very earth they seek to own. Self-defeating for an advanced species, doncha think?

I think a plot based on an "emergence" from cocoons is certainly feasible.

Comrade_:
Revelations 12:7-9: "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night." -online bible

Just one out of many that hints to a 'place' and not a 'metaphorical concept' in Christianity, for the other religions that mentions heaven, you can google on it further or ask around idk.

I don't know what scriptures you are referring to and not really interested into going into a religious debate or discussion...

Comrade_: Zanjan..truth, I think you generally like disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Don't worry, that's okay too.

Zanjan: Jack, I refuse to interpret scriptural verses for anybody - that's against my religion. I explained earlier the use of metaphors in scriptural language, which is the creative word.

You need to balance any verse out with other verses - cross reference; it's also yours to look at other Holy scriptures as many of us don't hold one as more correct than the other.

Hyenablood: oh no no Zajan, I did not post this to gather any information or to interpret scriptural. Truthfully was just a creative idea I had and I thought I would post it just to see what people said. I wan't looking for any ' inside information ' or translation. Really if I wrote this story, it would be 98 % fiction, or not true. The other 2% would be stuff I looked up myself and wrote using my own words and descriptions.

Zanjan: Totally understand Hyenablood.

All I can do is point out an incorrect verse......or abuse of one. Jack didn't misquote. However, there was nothing in that verse that states heaven or hell is in the physical realm. Just wanted to clarify.

You asked " would the power of 'goodness' and light and peace become too much and doom us all to evenually die off ? "

Well, you can't separate heaven and hell from humans - the angels and demons represent the human spirit.

Um...if the "us" are repulsive people, they'd certainly breed themselves out of existence, like the previous models of humans did - you know, Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal.etc. I cant really see intermarriage working very well due to a difference of values.

Seems to me, a world populated with people who are all goodness, light and peace would be a different race of man then that which populates the earth now.

Corwin: Sheesh... talk about missing the point of the thread.

Oh, and hey, thanks Hyena.

Good point about not using existing Superheros... keep it all original. I was just adding a little silliness to my comment (as usual).

duncan124:
An interesting creative writing essay there Corvin. Eternal Damnation would have to be stopped if hell had gone with out trace. Sinners would have to serve out their time on earth or humans would have to have some other change to their lot so that sins were avoided.

smokinghot: I can't for my bare life understand why people want to waste their time debating imaginary concepts like hell, which only exist in religious teaching and religious people's minds.

Corwin: You're missing the point here, Ivy... we're discussing ideas for a fictional novel here... anything goes with fiction, and we can make-up our own rules, and create a fictional past and present. If we want to borrow from religious concepts we can do that too.

--------
Okay, now what if......

..... let's say now that the "Hellstorm Project" was originally created by the scientists to unlock a new unlimited power-source, drawing heat-energy through a porthole, from what they call the "9th Dimension"... but which is really a parallel Universe filled entirely with super-hot plasma, because of a "stunted Big-Bang" which took place in that Universe's early creation... ....and a side-effect is that not only does the porthole open both ways, but it is found that because of a miss-match of Universal Laws, all life forms from our own Universe who enter it become frozen in a suspended biological state, but with active brain-activity.... so they quite literally "burn forever" in 9th Dimension hell-fire.

The project is seen as too dangerous to fall into the wrong hands, and the whole facility is entombed in it's underground base, never to be seen again, until it becomes the only means available to save Humanity from the "Fallen-Angels" who have ravaged Earth since the destruction of Hell...... ( BUT, at what cost? )
.......................

lori100: Corvin.... have you been droppng acid again.......? ..........

Corwin:

lori100: lol, that was very creative of you, talking about the 9th dimension and parallel universes.....didn't know you had an interest in such mumbo jumbo......

Corwin: I love Science Fiction... it's the highest form of "What If?" in literature, and a way to expand the collective minds of Humanity to be open to brave new ideas. Great Sci-Fi writers like Jules Verne and Arther C. Clarke have literally predicted the future in some respects. Verne wrote about a Sub-marine-boat powered by the "force of the Universe", before there were submarines OR nuclear power. And Clarke predicted communication satellites.

But all fictional literature is a wonderful mental exercise of asking "What If?"... as long as you don't start believing that it's real, like L.Ron Hubbard fans did.