Wake up you morons! (Page 2)

Geoff: Yeah, the leap of faith.

Faith: n. Complete trust or confidence in someone or something regardless of evidence to the contrary.
Delusion: n. A belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality.
Gullible: adj. Enticed to believe something despite complete lack of evidence.

Synonym: n. A word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase.

Zanjan: There’s a distinct difference between belief and faith – dictionaries that don’t distinguish this contribute to the spread of erroneous use of language, creating misunderstanding. The various writers of such entries aren’t necessarily smart or well-informed individuals - they just submit the common public usage without thinking about it.


Faith- noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. As a code of ethics, standards of merit, to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
3. a system of religious belief [should read ‘practice and principles’] : the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
4. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
5. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
6. Theology: the trust in God and in His promises

Delusion - noun

1. : the act of deluding : the state of being deluded
2 a : something that is falsely or delusively believed or propagated
b : a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary; also : the abnormal state marked by such beliefs
3. Psychiatry: a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.

Synonym for delusion: deception, illusion.

You have no idea how hard it is to trust someone you were taught by many NOT to trust. Prejudice is very influential. Similarly, if you don't understand how a principle works, you'll trust the wrong thing, then blame the failure on something else.

God has said the pure in heart wont be deceived by evil. In that case, the objective would be to work hard on making your heart purer than it already is, as this will ensure you're endowed with that particular kind of divine protection 24/7.

Zanjan: Furthermore, insane asylums used to be filled with people who weren't sick - they were merely crazy lovers of God. So many horror stories of how the medical staff treated them!

In the end, psychiatry made enough advancement to realize these people were fully functional and aware of their actions, none of which ever caused anyone harm. Seems their controlling relatives found asylums a suitable way to dispose of those who didn't agree with them and do as they were told.

You see, the purer the spirit a person has, the worse he makes those with dark motivations look. Can't have that contrast of good and evil, eh.

Outbackjack: I must be bored.Here goes but dont expect any further response.

If god made heaven the perfect place then all your loved ones would be there & not burning in hell. Does god just expect you to abandon & not love a parent or sibling who is not supposedly in heaven? Doesn't sound like a loving god to me & heaven is far from a perfect place if you cant spend your time with family & friends.So this just proves its all bullshit.

Zanjan: God didn't build heaven for *you* - He made it for Himself, for HIS loved ones. Just as you're close to certain people, so is He.

Even the bad guys have those they love - not many, mind you but a few - and it's always those who praised them and gave them lots of stuff for free, eh...like shut-up money.

"Does god just expect you to abandon & not love a parent or sibling who is not supposedly in heaven"

Lets assume you have a proven way of knowing they're not in heaven. I certainly do for mine. That's not to say they wont ever find their way there at some point in eternity but the prospect of that happening anytime soon were pretty dim when they died.

God expects you to treat a parent with unconditional love - this is the way to honour them; He never said you had to like them or spend anytime around them.

Why would you *want* to hang out with any bad people? Religion is about our spiritual relationships, not blood relationships. There is a natural aversion to things that make one ill.

"“Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?” (2 Cor. 6:14, KJV)."

The worse thing one can do is get into a power struggle. Those who hold to different values are bound to clash but it's hardly a fair fight when one is strong and one is weak. This is why a believer in God should never marry an atheist; fortunately, we don't need to give that advice very often because the two normally are at opposite ends of the pole - they live in different worlds, far apart.

One has no business being where they don't belong, right?

Outbackjack: "One has no business being where they don't belong, right?"


You avoided the fact that this proves that heaven is not a perfect place.Families belong together.They stick together.Any God who tells me otherwise can go and kiss my arse.

Jesus supposedly hung out with prostitutes,thieves etc.These are what you might "deem" bad people.

CoIin: Let sleeping morons lie, I say

* goes back to bed *

Zanjan: Outbackjack, there is no such thing as a perfect place, considering "place" isnt a singularity. There is only the right place to be.

People that are bonded together are families, whether they're related by blood or not. If you're not bonded, you're not family. That's why I never missed my parents when they died - no loss to me at all. You cant miss something you never had.

Talking to people isn't the same thing as bonding with them. Diagnosing their illness doesn't make them a member of your family. One can't avoid associating and communicating with all sorts of people in this world unless one becomes a cave hermit - that's not what God had in mind, unless it's for a temporary anti-stress leave.

There's a natural order of things - God separates the men form the mice, the good from the bad, and that's just the way it is. No one can fight against those forces and win.

CoIin: Erm, you told me in another thread that "good" and "bad" were relative qualities

Zanjan: Within the parameters of their world......remember the BAND beyond which there is no crossing???

CoIin: Ah, silly me

* back to bed again *

Outbackjack: "Outbackjack, there is no such thing as a perfect place,"

Thats not what your fairytale book says:

Heaven is a perfect place ( Rev 22:1,2) a picture of perfect leisurely comfort, no work, no taxes. It is a place of perfect satisfaction, no temptation to sin, no devils, no unclean spirits!

We have heaven as 'Paradise' ( Luke 16:22; 2 Cor 12:4; Rev 2:7) a place not made of hands, but of God!

I think you need to have a good read of your own book or better still order a triple lobotomy.I have done here.You have taken up enough of my time today.If you want to believe in 2000 year old fairy tales which have no proof then thats your problem.

Zanjan: Rev 22:1,2: The exact verse: "Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations."

This was a prophecy of the next Divine Revelation, to be delivered by the Promised One. As such, it would be a development in *their* future - that is, from the time it was written. Obviously, the writer intended for Christians to notice that.. From my standpoint in the 21st century, that's in the past. I saw how it happened.

If you haven't recognized it, that's not any paradise for you!

The exact verse: Luke 16:22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried.

You relate this to your life.....how? Everybody dies, man......you cant take people with you, even if you kill them first.

The exact verse: 2 Cor 12:4 "was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell."

The writer wasn't talking about you, lil buddy.

The exact verse:Rev 2:7 "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."

This is a caveat, directed to Christians; only Christians have churches.

It's God's paradise, not yours...how can you not grok that??? Your idea of paradise is to be with your family members. God might think that's what you deserve......or not. It's no business of ours.

By the way, I'm not Christian. I belong to a newer religion; its Prophet - Founder, Baha'u'llah, revealed over 100 volumes of scripture; ergo, I have no need for Biblical references but I respect that others do.

Yet seeing the protest over authenticity of texts the Christians have to deal with makes me so very glad my religion has the original, hand written words by the Prophet, Himself. We even have pictures of the early believers and their homes so, no one can say these people were a figment of somebody's imagination. Thanks be to God for the timing!

davidk14: .
Why are some of you making a big deal out of this? Everything you read was written by man. The thoughts, stories, ideas and concepts of the ‘bible’ are just what they are…thoughts, stories, ideas and concepts. Some of these ‘written words’ make sense and as any written document or book, needs to understood for exactly what they were written for and ‘when’ they were written. Did Moses part the Red Sea? Maybe..maybe not. Perhaps they crossed at low tide. Who knows and really, who cares. It’s a story and what you learn from its ‘message’ is what is important just as Noah and the ark and Jonah and the whale. If you do not learn from the ‘messages’, so be it.

Everything you read….everything….was written by man.
.

CoIin: Well, David, someone called me a moron and I ain't takin' that lying down

Zanjan: davidk: "Everything you read….everything….was written by man."

Which is so much better than if it were written by monkeys.

Zanjan: Human history is a collection of biographies - ask why people wanted to write these things down. Not so the author could read about his life when Alzheimer's sets in; not so his great grandchildren would know who he was. That's an autobiography.

So, one would write about others to....... make money from book & movie sales? Then one could just write another book as the sequel, yes?

Imagine the mind of the author who could write a book that would sell for thousands of years.....yeah, you'd have to imagine that because if yours were nearly as good, you'd have done it. It's a question of supply and demand, people.

Geoff: Hook, line, sinker, and copy of anglers times.

I'd normally say that someone in the bronze age is very happy right now, but instead I get to say, "Someone in the Victorian era is very happy right now."

It really does say something for a lie that it is bought without needing such weighty provenience behind it.

"It was the worst of times, it was the best of times." is now a religious passage.

Zanjan: "And God said let there be light."

Thus, you can trust you'll find light around somewhere -
a sunbeam, mysteriously falling on a dust-covered book,
a soft red glow in a darkened corner, calling you to look.

What page has opened to trigger your epiphany?
You gaze all night at the hunters moon like a love-sick groom.

O thou lunatic, what momentous hour has come to you!
Be thankful - the dry creek bed has ended your sojourn;
the shaft of gleaming beauty has led you from your cave.
And here is a sparkling waterfall. Drink! 'Tis a new journey.

LiptonCambell: >>>dictionaries that don’t distinguish this contribute to the spread of erroneous use of language, creating misunderstanding.

Damn the Dictionary Agenda! If only we had a word tyrant like yourself at the helm of the dictionaries, Zanjan, you could institute words to mean whatever you like, whenever you like

>>>Furthermore, insane asylums used to be filled with people who weren't sick - they were merely crazy lovers of God.

Poor, poor religious people being persecuted against....God only knows that, in the past, there was no religion, and anyone who dared to make a religious stance were instantly persecuted against. Like Plato. And Da Vinci .

Glad to see you've decided to put yourself in a position not only to re-define words, but to r-diagnose people you've never met, with symptoms you don't understand, on a subject you never learned.

Some people just can't help but continue to crucify themselves, and act like other people did it

Zanjan: Hey, I don't see you willingly giving up any blood for your beliefs!

"you could institute words to mean whatever you like, whenever you like"

Where do you think words come from - do they hang in trees like apples? Who put them there?

My diagnostics beats yours hands down. They don't rely on personal insults.

Geoff: <-- Voluntary blood donor.

And that's not anything to do with any beliefs. As an atheist pretty much the only thing I can claim is an actual belief is that bad situations call for a cup of tea. That is opposed to the many opinions I have formed on the basis of evidence, which are subject to revision in the event of new evidence.

LiptonCambell: >>>My diagnostics beats yours hands down.

you're misusing the word 'diagnostics'. It doesn't mean what you think it means. The dictionary people have been manipulating you into thinking you know the meaning- its all part of their agenda, and you're just playing into their hands...

Zanjan: You have no idea what I think it means...or intend it to mean. I have a built-in (technically, inherited) 'radar' type band system that alerts me to troubles and fixes in people, and on the planet - similar to the diagnostic center that vehicle mechanics use.

I'm my own garage band.

LiptonCambell: poor ignorant Zanjan....playing right into the Lexicologists hands, and she can't even see it....