Homosexuality in Animals, and God (Page 2)

LiptonCambell:

Geoff: Homosexual behaviour has been widely documented in hundreds of different species.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090616122106.htm

http://www.yalescientific.org/2012/03/do-animals-exhibit-homosexuality/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/earth/story/20150206-are-there-any-homosexual-animals

To simply retort that "There are no gay animals" is not only fundamentally ignorant of the natural world, it's incredibly arrogant in espousing your insular, narrow-minded world view.


Oh, and humans are animals too. And if you don't believe that there're gay humans, I'll introduce you to Mask.

Cenababy: right, and do they show that when male animals and/or female hump on the same sex, that this is a dominant trait, and a trait of ownership? do they actually have sex to try and re-produce, or just a slant to prove SEE THERE

Geoff: Nope, they do actually have sex.

There's also incidence of same sex pairing for life.

Funnily enough there's no record of divorce in the animal kingdom - which isn't really odd because the bible is far more critical of divorce than homosexuality.

Cenababy: lol well agreeing with the divorce for sure......
God gives us over....Romans
very interesting explanation of this!
In my animal experiences, I have seen more dominance and ownership......
Ofcourse animals are not like us, their instincts are just what they are...
go figure

suchso: How do two female animals actually have sex?

suchso: I'm sure whatever animals might think sex is; it's totally different to what we think it is.

LiptonCambell: >>>right, and do they show that when male animals and/or female hump on the same sex, that this is a dominant trait, and a trait of ownership? do they actually have sex to try and re-produce, or just a slant to prove SEE THERE

Wait wait wait;

A) Wouldn't such a thing, knowing --why-- animals have sex, imply we can read their thoughts? Surely we can observe them, and collect their thoughts on any given subject(like two male animals pairing for life would imply something beyond dominance), but yea, you can't 'know' what an animal is thinking

B) Animals don't CHOOSE to have offspring. They either enjoy sex, or are instinctively driven to have sex- but I legitimately don't think there is a choice involved

>>>In my animal experiences,

I'm curious- in the video I posted was led by an anthropologist- a career that takes around 5-7 years of learning to achieve.

You insist you know better, insisting your own experiences.....are....are you also an anthropologist?

suchso: I don't know, but I think sex between animals does not imply any kind of love. That would be anthropomorphic ie. assuming animals have thoughts similar to humans.

Since us humans have evolved, we are aware of the difference between sexual impulse and something we call "love". And that gives us a choice, unlike the animals that act on instinct.

"Free will", which separates us from the other animals is simply the ability to think independently of our natural instincts and hormonal function/dysfunction.

Animal instinct does not require thought, nor involve "love", it is simply reaction to stimulus.

I believe it comes down to:
Obey animal instinct or think rationally.

LiptonCambell: >>> I don't know, but I think sex between animals does not imply any kind of love.

Sexuality and Love aren't the same thing. I don't think these animals 'love' each other....well, it's possible, but thats not the point being made.

You can have a sexual orientation without being in love. For example, i'm not in a relationship at the moment....but I am straight.

Love didn't 'turn' me straight- I identify as it.

>>>Obey animal instinct or think rationally.

Lol who told you love was rational?

Corwin: I think the whole business of "falling in love" has FAR more to do with instinct than it does with "freewill". And as Geoff pointed out, since when was love "rational"??

We don't consciously "choose" who we fall in love with... and Humans are far more driven by our "animal instincts" than suchso realizes or will admit.

I think even the common Human predisposition to feel the need to perceive a "higher being" in the form of a Deity can be attributed to succumbing to some primal instinct of some kind... certainly if we all ignored this "instinct" and chose "rationality", why the heck would anybody believe in invisible powerful beings that wish us to ignore our instincts??
Kind of a contradiction, if you really think about it.

suchso: Okay, well I said I don't know. It's true that love may not be rational. There are different kinds of love, and sexual or romantic love can be explained away with hormones. Emotions can be influenced by chemical reactions in the brain, the same as sexual attraction.

Forget about love then, I admit that's going off track.

Going back to the opening post: If God wants gay animals to exist, then does that mean he also wants animals to have sex between species? There are some disturbing videos on youtube such as chimp rapes frog!
- and does God approve of dogs humping our legs?

And if animals do it, does that mean we can do it since we are nothing but animals?
We've evolved beyond animal instinct. We are aware when our hormones are skewed. Or we ought to be aware.

Corwin: I don't understand this whole "nothing but animals" thing. What else would we be?? The only alternative is vegetable or mineral.

Does God approve of dogs humping our legs?? I don't know... why don't you ask Him?

"If God wants...." --- You see, here lies the problem... "men" attempting to decide what their "God" wants. It's not a matter of some invisible deity "wanting" something, but more a matter of what "Nature" allows. When men start taking action based on what they think their deity "wants", then all manner of atrocity can be justified. What gives any man the right to decide what the intentions or desires of a Supreme Being might be, or what He/It approves of or doesn't?

Nature pretty much has one rule... survive, or don't. And it's not just about "individual" survival, but "herd" survival as well. Perhaps a Human society that includes homosexuals has a survival advantage over one that doesn't. Who knows? That's up to Nature to decide in the form of long-term survival of any given species or branch of that species.
I mean, if procreation is an issue, think about it... there's over 7 billion of us... how many more Humans do we need on this planet?? Perhaps an increase in homosexuality is a genetic herd response to overpopulation... that would certainly be favorable to us all killing each other to keep the numbers down.

For that matter, is a "technological society" advantageous to long-term survival as a species? Only time will tell... if we end up devising the manner of our own extinction and blowing ourselves to Kingdom Come, this technological species of Primate known as Homo Sapiens will turn out to be an evolutionary dead-end... in that scenario the Chimps could end up being the superior species after all, if they survive and we don't.

There's this Human arrogance that we feel we are "above" the animal Kingdom, or "separate" from it somehow... we're just a member of it like any other species. Sure, we have art, and literature, and science, and religion, and technology, and architecture... but what difference does any of that make if we end up going extinct?

Anyway... I digress. As you were.

calybonos: I haven't bothered reading all the comments because that would be gay, and being someone who is always right, I don't really give much credence to opinions that differ from my own, but on the off chance that there is a higher power than myself out there, and they also happen to occasionally look in and respond to stupid thread topics...

What is God's stance on animals masturbating to the photos of Furries?

Metaverseguy: Have you guys seen the Xian apes protesting the ape government, because they allow gay unions? It gets very violent. Banana peels everywhere.

Geoff: I have the hots for a male whale.

But only because he's the bomb at catching shrimp.

Cenababy: Corwin liked the first para, as for my faith, God is crystal clear.

Geoff: Read more - then you'll realise god isn't in your head.

suchso: Meow?

LiptonCambell:

Metaverseguy: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/drug-use-seven-times-higher-among-gays-8165971.html

Gays are seven times more likely to use narcotics. Do you think it's from a coping mechanism from bullying, or just hedonistic partying? Everyone seemed to sympathize with gay people before gay marriage was allowed, but now a new issue arose with this stupid neutral bathroom ordeal. Frankly, I think most gay people are annoying. 90% are the loud and proud type, getting in your face with their orientation and hoping to start an argument, probably not even gay just want attention. Now that gay marriage is legal they can stop parading around every city with their stupid rainbows and crossdressing outfits talking about persecution. They don't have it as bad as black people did in the 50's and 60's. Most workplaces aren't allowed to discriminate. They can adopt children. Many have hateful things to say towards all non-gay people. Shut up. Some of us supported your civil rights campaign. Just dress normal.

Geoff: Neutral bathrooms isn't really to do with homosexuality, it brought to light by transgenders.

And it's 48 years since Martin Luther King Jr was assassinated - do you believe that racism has been stamped out in the US?

It's almost a century since women were given equal power to vote in the US - do you believe that sexism has been stamped out in the US?

Metaverseguy: These bigotry issues are never going to be wiped out. It's always a "work in progress". Hell religion is still around their books are full of lies. The majority of people claim to be religious even if every belief of their religion has been proven wrong by science.

As an adult all you hear all day long is podcasts, and radio shows, and television programs, and online articles about why racism, sexism, homophobia, prejudice is wrong. It's shoved down your throat daily and then a second dose is prescribed. So then people say racist crap when they are in the middle of traffic or have to do errands. No one can resist. It's like looking at the Christmas presents before Christmas. Then the organizers of these stupid groups like KKK, or Christian anti-gay groups, or anti-feminism groups (I can't think of any at the moment). The groups all rally like schoolchildren who rebel immediately after being told what's wrong and what's right.

I don't think it's ever going to be solved and I don't care either. People saying these hateful things is just like someone saying "you're going to burn in hell if you don't get saved by jesus". It's just annoying drivel

Geoff: Yes it is - and I don't blame the victims of such bigotry for wanting to stand up to it.

Yes, some take "standing up against the oppression" too far, but a house painted in rainbow colours opposite the WBC? That's funny.

shadowline: The notion that if animals do something, it must be natural, is skewered. There are animals who eat their offspring. Human beings who have any grasp at all over their humanity do not take that as a measure of normality.

As far as homosexual behaviour is concerned, there is no reason why animals can't have complexes as much as humans do. Haven't you ever heard of a mad dog? And if a "gay gene" has ever been discovered, I'd like to hear about it. I've never heard that, and I think it would be the biggest news story since the Kennedy assassination if it happened.