a Jew Disproves Christianity (Page 10)

Zanjan: God says we have a choice - the devil didn't say that because firstly, there wouldn't be any advantage for him to say it, and secondly, the devil doesn't write scriptures.

The devil can only deceive the wicked.

Blackshoes: God doesn't state anywhere in the word that's it in our power too chose..Yes we chose? However:without God spirit giving you that power to chose .All are bound by the devils control ..
It’s a sticky question – one that has divided people for centuries. If God chose me, does that mean that I don’t have any free will? Does that mean that my choices aren’t really choices at all? Does that mean that I’m nothing more than a puppet on a divine string?

On the other hand, if I chose God, does that mean that God isn’t really sovereign? Does that mean that salvation is the one area that falls outside of God’s total, sovereign control?

It’s tricky. So what does the Bible say? Surely the Bible makes one or the other clear.

Well, sort of. Scripture makes it clear that God chooses us for salvation. And scripture makes it clear that we choose God. It’s not either or, it’s both. John 1:12-13 is a perfect example of this.

But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

gronchbove: The problem I have is that "a righteous God does not allow his people to be oppressed by the Devil." Does a homeowner allow thieves to ransack his home? No.

A good God punishes the Devil and surrounds his people with goodness.

Blackshoes: True
However: God has chosen to wait'. Because :God is long suffering wishing that ..All men will come to repentances

gronchbove: Blackshoes, do you honestly buy that? Just take a minute to think. Don't respond immediately. Think about your loved ones. Do you make them suffer? That is mean. That is cruel. It doesn't really make sense.

Blackshoes: Yes it is cruel .Yet :when one son is harming his brother ?Would a father want to kill the bad son ? Or hope that the Mercy he shows", will cause the bad son to stop ?
If God were to count iniquity ", Who would stand .!!. We've all sinned and fallen short of the ( glory of GOD )

gronchbove: Blackshoes, let me ask you about this because I think Christianity has no logic. I think you are talking about Cain and Abel right?

When Cain killed Abel, then justice demands Cain's death? Why? If you don't punish Cain, then you encourage future murderers to kill the innocent.

How would you feel like if you saw a murderer walking around free.

Christianity is illogical and unjust.

Blackshoes: Tha tQuestion is explain as clear as day in the book of Romans
Do you think a good man would enjoy seeing his bother killed by his father ? Cain was punished .. All that commit evil will either ,Repent through Jesus Christ ..Or suffer forever without his mercy..It's just a matter of time .

gronchbove: Cain got off easy. We agree that man's courts are evil. But honestly, if one brother killed another, that is a heinous crime!

Blackshoes: Wile on this earth Maybe so .Yet .According to the Word.. Cain will be Judged like all at Judgement day ..It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God

Revelation
2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Jesus told the Apostles
.-Luke

-13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

gronchbove: Blackshoes, these condemnations are terrible, truly. Do you believe that these punishments will be soon? I see people are very stressed today. I think the wicked know "not only that their numbers are numbered, but their time of judgment is soon." We have no more time for their evil. We must crush the wicked!

Blackshoes: That's problem..They feel the same way thats why they kill !! Some think they're doing God a favor It is appointed on to man to die once then the judgement ...Life is short .The only real answer is love them,and wait for the judgment of God ..Otherwise we fall into the same trap. BBlater

gronchbove: Blackshoes, these people are nuts. Do you understand what I said about ancient Rome? The Romans tried to "pretend to follow all religions." Some of these Christians are fake. They are devils - wolves in sheep's clothing.

I don't love the wicked.

Blackshoes: I don't follow them ?? I follow Jesus !! I'm quite aware of what happen in 325 AD..Theres no fixing them? You keep worry about what theyre doing ?The point isn't Rome ?The point is what will happen on Judgement day ..Everything else isn't my problem ..All I can do is tell the truth', and love God n' my fellow man..Whether they follow Jesus or they're the flesh will be they're problem on Judgement day ..Jesus promies all that follow him will be with him..All that follow the world, the devil n' the flesh will be judged

gronchbove: Blackshoes, don't confuse the "Message" for "Christianity." We all agree that the ideas of love in Christianity are great. But the "Christian institutions are the problem."

When will they be judged? Blackshoes, it is just a promise. I encourage people to "fight now to make the world better now."

Blackshoes: I don't fight .. Telling the truth is all one should do ...Fighting isn't true love..Fighting is why so many die and are harmed ?? You cannot cast out evil with evil ??

gronchbove: Tell me this, Blackshoes? Why should a Christian fight a war in unjust war in Vietnam, but refuse to fight against the Christian oppressors in America?

You have forgotten the Universal Law. The Universal Law is that a real man "has the duty to fight for his family." That is the law.

Blackshoes: Like I said ..The Universal law of mankind is War ,Want, Lust ,Greed ..It's easy to control the public ..Just say they're Faimly, Nation ,Way of life, Religion is threaten and we need this or that War ..Mean wile the rich line they're pocket over the Blood of millions ",and nothing changes ..LOL Jesus wasn't complementing us ". when he call us sheep. You want to fight against the rulers of the world. Just to make your friends the same greedy wanten rulers ..
It's just a game of tic tac toe ..The only way to win .Is not to play !! History has taugh us one thing .The ruler always win ..I look forward to Heaven and the life to come . You to want make Heaven here on earth through fighing ..Evil cannot drive out evil ..

Romans

1:15. So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
1:17. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
1:18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
1:19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
1:20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
1:21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
1:22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Zanjan: Gronch: " Does a homeowner allow thieves to ransack his home? No."

A smart homeowner WOULD. Stuff isn't worth an altercation or losing your life over. This is why we have insurance. But even if not covered by insurance, you'd have to buy new stuff soon anyway. Personally, I'd consider it a donation and hand it over with a smile - how do I know he doesn't need it more than I do?

A good God rewards good people...that's all there is to it. God clothes them with the armor of virtue, which the devil is too weak to penetrate. Divine strength subjugates the devil. Whereas, bad people get a bad reputation and, eventually, are hung out to dry. They're self-punishing.

"Would a father want to kill the bad son ? Or hope that the Mercy he shows", will cause the bad son to stop ?"

No, he knows the bad son doesn't hear him anyway so he sends his son out into the world and lets him fend for himself - there are con sequences for actions and a good father would never interfere with them if He loved his son. His son, after banging his head on the wall umpteen times might just get the idea his MO isnt working for him. Then again, he may push the limits and fall on his own sword.

The judgement - we're judged every day; we're judged when God sends a Prophet; we're judged when we die. It's up to us to change what we do and how we think so that judgment changes too.

"The Universal Law is that a real man "has the duty to fight for his family."

No it isn't. A real man has the duty to help and protect his loved ones, be they family or otherwise. God gave him that duty as a service to Him. He didn't say we should go fist to cuffs.

Ms_Mafdet_The Great: No. 1)

Science more or less disproves ALL religions.

No. 2)

See "no. 1" )

chayim: God punished cain that his uncle killed him, and by the time of the flood, all children of cain were killed in the flood, noach was a descend of sheis, the 3rd son of adam

chayim: Science is part of God's creation it proves God totally

Zanjan: Henry: " question, what does it mean to be created in the creator's image?"

That is the capacity of man to reflect the attributes of God; it's an endowment of the soul.
God created in humans the ability (the intellectual power) to know Him and to worship Him; thus, to choose for themselves the same thing God has chosen for Himself.

Consider the brain; one has to be taught how to use theirs to their full potential - this training requires much practice.. Many powers and abilities are latent until education brings these gems out. In short, no one knows how to play a guitar until they learn. Then comes mastery of the art but few become masters.

Humans are spiritual beings; the same principle applies to master the ego (self). The human doesn't become a true man until he is refined enough to reflect divine virtues **as they are in God**. What we usually see are mock representations, not the genuine, fully developed virtue. Further development is necessary.

All these divine virtues, such as justice, truthfulness, trust, compassion, respect, chastity and so forth are the expressions of unconditional love.

Humans struggle to create their own mental version of that, which is insufficient. So, God teaches us through His Prophets that this spirit dwells within the heart - turn the clean heart to God, and it acts like a mirror. Thus we see the image (reflection) of God created in it.

Those Prophets had the cleanest heart; they show us how this is possible. The religious path is the way to clean the worldly dust off our hearts so that when we turn it to God, it can faithfully show the actual, clear image of divine attributes, not a fuzzy blob.