Only the Torah is True, the Bible is Mixed with False (Page 2)

Barbara the Jew
Barbara the Jew: the talmud was written 200 years before Jesus was alive
10 years ago Report
1
chayim
chayim: The Talmud was written after jesus died about 100 years, but the conversations what is "written" in it, was from hundreds of years before in many generations till the time it was written

Than it started to be written, but it continued many hundred years
(Edited by chayim)
10 years ago Report
0
Barbara the Jew
Barbara the Jew: as far as i know the babylonian talmud was written in babyloon during the capitivity and first exiled of the Jews. jesus was born during Roman occupation , 200 years after the fact. Are we talking about the same Talmud.
10 years ago Report
1
chayim
chayim: No, when the Jews were exiled the second time they also went to Babylon, and there it was continued to be written for a few hundred years
10 years ago Report
0
Barbara the Jew
Barbara the Jew: 200 years before Jesus
10 years ago Report
1
Barbara the Jew
Barbara the Jew: never mind researched it , your right
10 years ago Report
0
Barbara the Jew
Barbara the Jew: http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/texts/talmud.htm <<<<< read more here
10 years ago Report
0
chayim
chayim: jesus lived about 40 years before the Romans destroyed the second temple, and the Talmud started to be written by a chief rabbi named rabbi Yehuda Hanunsie, about 100 years after the second temple was destroyed
10 years ago Report
1
Zanjan
Zanjan: Chayi: "even jesus was a student till his 32 years to them, his rabbi was, rabbi "Yehoishuya Ben Parachia""

Doesn't the word "Rabbi" mean "teacher"? Do you deny Jesus had disciples? If he had disciples, that means He was a teacher - a Rabbi. Were Rabbi's paid? If you deny Jesus was a teacher, then what was His occupation and who paid him?

According to what the two of you have said about the Talmud, which Jews hold to be a Holy Book, then it was added to the the Old Testament.





(Edited by Zanjan)
10 years ago Report
0
Barbara the Jew
Barbara the Jew: not all jews consider the Talmud a holy book. Torah is holy book! the talmud to me is just commentary.
10 years ago Report
0
chayim
chayim: Rabbi's were not paid, they learned to righteous people for only to learn not for money, in that time all learning's were for no money

jesus, wasn't a Rabbi, he had people that was mistaking to his false preaching's, the bible does not say what jesus really preached, peter only wrote those words that are not totally evil, even though that a lot things in the bible what jesus said is really false and evil, (for example, what he told his people and it's not mentioned in the bible; he said to his people that 10 men should marry one women, terrible)

The Talmud is a very holy book, but it's not a prophecy book, what the bible says "OT" is only the prophecy books, prophecy is what God said, and the Talmud is what righteous people said with their own wisdom what they understood with their holy spirit and soul

10 years ago Report
1
aspirin
(Post deleted by staff 10 years ago)
HandyBrat
(Post deleted by staff 10 years ago)
Zanjan
Zanjan: Chayi” “Rabbi's were not paid”

Do you mean they had other income/employment….. or that somebody fed, clothed and sheltered them for free? If so, who was their benefactor?

The Talmud – I understand the first part (Mishnah) is an oral version, which was developed over the period between 536 BCE – 70 CE. Jewish law had forbidden it to be put into writing. Why?

Then along came a Jew, in 220 AD, who broke that law by putting it into writing because he was afraid it would be forgotten. Who gave him this authority? This fellow redacted it – meaning he transcribed and edited it - an old, authoritative collection before he set his hand to it. How can you edit someone else’s words who lived hundreds of years before you did? Yet this was permitted. I call that misplaced trust.

The Gemara – a commentary on a commentary on a commentary. Whoa, sounds like gossip. There were two versions of this published by different Jewish academies, one in 450 AD, and one 50 years later. I was fine following along with this up until Wikepedia said: “Because there are two Gemaras, there are in fact two Talmuds: the Jerusalem Talmud, and the Babylonian Talmud. EH??

Thank God it all stopped!
(Edited by Zanjan)
10 years ago Report
0
Zanjan
Zanjan: Back to Jesus:

Chayi: “The Talmud……. it's not a prophecy book, what the bible says "OT" is only the prophecy books, prophecy is what God said,”

OK, that seems clear enough - Jews believed that prophecies are the sign that God is speaking – that this is what a Prophet does. Therefore, if he doesn’t make prophecies, he’s not a prophet. Doesn't matter whether one sees them come true or not - Isiah made some thousands of years into the future.

I find it very strange that Jews readily accepted any Rabbi’s (teacher’s) comments and pronouncements, but refused everything said by a Jewish Prophet – Jesus, Who made some very bold prophecies, saying God was speaking.

Oddly, Jews had accepted Jewish Prophets in the past but suddenly stopped, with no explanation, on this date – in the generation of Jesus. It’s been deathly quiet in the House of Judaism since then. Co-incidence? I think not.
(Edited by Zanjan)
10 years ago Report
0
chayim
chayim: The Rabbi's were not supported by anyone, one statement in the Talmud is that you should rather do any work but not receive charity from no one, they or worked, or their father left them money and property

The reason why it was not allowed to write the Mishnah is because it's only understood reasonable by talking and explaining it right, because by writing it can be misunderstood and mistaking, but when the generations got weaker spiritually and it started to become forgotten simply is that it should be written

All what he wrote was what he accepted from his Rabbi's, and they from their Rabbi's till Moses, but they also made their own statements in laws by reasoning ways on what they did not accept from their Rabbi's

The Gemara is what the generations after the Mishnah was written, they explain and reason everything what's written in the Mishnah, the Gemara was written one generation immediately after the Misnah was written, the Misnah was written in Israel, and the Gemara stared to be written in Israel, but it got continued in Babylon, most of the things that is written in the Talmud of Israel is mentioned in the Talmud of Babylon, but the Talmud of babylon is more accomplished and efficient
(Edited by chayim)
10 years ago Report
0
chayim
chayim: Prophecy is only by that God's spirit presence glares totally in the person, and it stopped by the destroying of the first temple, the last prophets were Chagi Zecharia and Malachi, they were by the time when the first temple was destroyed, and from than till the time of the coming of the Mushiach is not able to be any prophets, it will only return by the return of God's presence of glory will return totally, in the time of the coming of Mushiach, and it's written in the end of the book of Malachi
(Edited by chayim)
10 years ago Report
0
Barbara the Jew
Barbara the Jew: I do not consider the talmud holy to me is just commentary and yes it should be studied. Many practices of The talmud contradic Torah. Torah respects women and in some instances in the talmud, the scholars, it seems they have picked up the "macho attitudes" of the pagans.
(Edited by Barbara the Jew)
10 years ago Report
0
Zanjan
Zanjan: Chayi, you said Rabbis were not paid, that the Talmud says they had to be self supporting, or making their own livelihood (at the time of Jesus). You’ve said Jesus was not a Rabbi. This is a curious thing because Jesus wasn’t paid either – His profession was carpentry. This could fit, but let’s have a closer look.

Maybe you were right, according to Jewish Law - despite some having called Him rabbi because He fit the description, that doesn't mean He was *officially* designated as one.

I learned that the title of “rabbi” is a derivative of the noun “rav” (great); later, in Mishnaic Hebrew, the meaning changed - ‘rav’ meant “master” (‘my master’), a term that was applied to a slave and his master.

The title of ‘rabbi’ doesn’t appear in the Hebrew Bible at all. There was no such thing before Jesus.

The Jewish Virtual Library states: “It was only during the tannaitic period, in the generation after Hillel, that it [Rabbi] was employed as a title for the sages.” Sage means “a wise person”. (This period was 10-220 CE). Ah, a brand new fad, starting when Jesus was a young lad! Depending on His exact birthdate, He would have come of age by the time somebody thought up the title.

That means the only learning institution through Jesus's growing years was the priesthood (paid ordained clergy); they were supported through donations from their community. We pay our school teachers, don't we? Jesus wasn’t a priest? Yet as the first born male child, He was given to the Temple by Jewish law.

That was supposed to be His destiny - Priest (not a carpenter), and the priests were fine with that, welcoming Him until He grew up. Thus, He was under the tutelage of the priests - that was their traditional sacred responsibly, not the rabbis. Of course He studied! He could read and write and knew all about the Jewish history and teachings, and read from the scrolls in the Temple.

So what else could He be? His disciples and many people who heard Him thought he was a master teacher. Seems to me, if a man is wise, people will know it and repeat his wisdom – he doesn’t have to hang a sign on his chest.

Well, here’s the thing. I know Rabbis have received a wage via support from the community, even charging a fee since way back when…….since 70 AD….oh, there’s that magic number! Why did they break the law?


(Edited by Zanjan)
10 years ago Report
0
Zanjan
Zanjan: Chayi: “Prophecy is only by that God's spirit presence glares totally in the person”

Glaring, huh. If it’s so glaring, why are there so many false prophets? Obviously, some people thought they were true. Jesus spoke of that. To say there are or will be false prophets is to imply there are or will be true ones. No statement in the Hebrew Bible says God will never send another Prophet, ever again. No Prophet of God ever said this. That’s why Jews still believe in the promise of the Messiah.

Yes, Super, the Mishna was already seriously corrupted before that Rabbi “fixed” it. What did he use to fix it and how much of this fixing was just his own ideas? Since there was no written record of it, how could anyone contest it? Due to this history, it can never be a Holy Book because HOLY means pure.

Only that which comes from God is pure. The Prophets were the Holy Men of Judaism, not rabbis. Therefore, if Jesus was neither priest or rabbi, He could be either just a carpenter or a Holy Man – a Prophet. I don’t know of any other blue collar workers who’ve produced a Holy Book, other than Prophet Muhammad, a professional camel herder.


(Edited by Zanjan)
10 years ago Report
0
Zanjan
Zanjan: Chayi, you have an opinion of Jesus based on what some Jews said about Him, not about what other Jews said about Him. One-sided third party information is completely unreliable.

However, we do have one way to know the truth - it's by what that person actually said, what they say they did, particularly of what they say of themselves. You've ignored that.

Chayi: "he said to his people that 10 men should marry one women, terrible)"

Then why didn't they do it? Of course it's not mentioned in the Bible - it's a lie. Jesus gave His own testimony - its in print to this very day. He wanted people to think clearly and fairly so He always asked "what do YOU say, and what do THEY say of Me? He stressed repeatedly: "These are not my Words - they're GODs Words. Do you see the consistency? He firmly taught, through His own modelling, to pay close attention to whose words were whose, even when on trial.

If Jesus was so evil, He and His group would have disappeared, like all other notoriously evil men. Something had to be the truth.....and something had to disappear.


(Edited by Zanjan)
10 years ago Report
0
chayim
chayim: The word Rabbi and Rav in Hebrew are the same word, meaning; great, Rav means great, and Rabbi means; my greatness, in Hebrew, רב, (Rav) means great, רבי, is that you added the letter י, to רב, and in Hebrew when you add the letter י, by the end of a word it means; my, so רבי (Rabbi) means; my greatness, and when you say; "my greatness" it's more than only the title itself "great", only those who were in Israel were titled Rabbi, but Rav, was a title for those who were in Babylonian, because only those in Israel were more great because of their holy great spirit in Israel

The titles began in the later generations, because when you are really totally great you don't need any title, because it's naturally you yourself, but when the generations went down, it started the titles, the titles started after jesus was killed

The first born was not given to the temple, false, the Torah says; that the first born is God's child, but God doesn't want human sacrifices, so he's being sacrificed by changing it to a sheep

The reason why they started to being supported is, because they had to concentrate them self totally in their learning, so they couldn't do anything else, so they had to be supported
10 years ago Report
1
Barbara the Jew
Barbara the Jew: The phoenicians had child sacrifices, they sacrificed their firstborns sons. who does that remind you of?
10 years ago Report
0
chayim
chayim: False prophecy's were by many ways, or by doing evil things and the evil people went after them, or by non knowledged people that they didn't understand, and they promised everything will be good (even if they were evil) so they went after them, or by false miracles that were really not miracles, only unholy demonical magic, or by false glory what was really unholy demanical spirits, so only the true right righteous people knew and sticked to the true real holy prophecies

I said before that in the last prophecy book of prophet Malachi, ends with what God says; that the next prophet will be when Mushiach will come "together with the master prophet Elijah, and will bring peace to the whole world (this is also one thing that disproves jesus to be the Mushiach, that the prophet Elijah that never died didn't come with jesus like God said to Malachi)
(Edited by chayim)
10 years ago Report
1
chayim
chayim: Human sacrifices was always the pagans and false God worshipers, but the one true holy God said clear many times in the Torah that he does not want to sacrifice human
10 years ago Report
1