Who Believes in the Devil? (Page 80)

ghostgeek: Sorry to hear your lawn is getting a little scrubby. Mine isn't any great shakes either.

Zanjan: Not worried about the lawn - it's a mix of wild prairie and crab grass; their roots just go dormant so they can sleep it off for years. However, the bushes and trees wont come back.

I waited 18 years for them to get that big. Although lovely, whispering to me at night, they're not there just for looks - all life here depends on them. So does the roof on my house.

Times like these draw you closer to the wild and woolly. I'm astonished at the endurance of our native weeds. Right now, they're lush and green and blooming like mad. They don't need water and keep the dust down. You have to admire their tenacity. I'm thinking of keeping them.

ghostgeek: I'm wondering how to get rid of my weeds. I guess they're a bit like belief in the Devil. They can be suppressed but not eradicated.

Zanjan: If you dig your shovel deep enough, they can be eradicated. However, new weeds will appear within 3 weeks.

Weeds are like sins - get rid of one and 7 more come in to take its place. What one needs is the water cannon of God to hurl you to the other side, while washing away the garbage in the channel.

The other side is where you learn about the joys of pea gravel - those virtuous lil' round stones you can pile up thick over where the dirt was. I have a mountain of them in my back yard.

Zanjan: OOps....HAD. I moved it.

lightglo: Everyone deserves free will, checks and balances. I just don’t want people to speak for me, equality shouldn’t have to be asked for. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N2msShiEgJE

lightglo: Looking for Apostles, female leaders. If you are serious about working together efficiently and with purpose kik imnottabich
Anyone can hmu but i plan to get us organized to stop slavery and enjoy life

lightglo: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N2msShiEgJE

ghostgeek: Is slavery still extant in the U.S.A.?

Zanjan: Only to the banks, apparently.

Zanjan: You know, today I was thankful because two people came to visit me, unexpectedly. Took me away from the sweat and toil of pulling weeds and watering. We had a lovely chat for maybe 40 minutes or so; then they departed with smiles and waves, promising to return sometime.

Ok, they were Jehovah's Witnesses and they were very nice.

We got to talking about the Names of God - Ghost, one of them actually mentioned Odin. What a co-incidence, eh? Well, they got Yahweh down right (except they didn't know what it meant in English) but they did remark on the importance of calling God by His right Name.

When I asked them what Name do Christians call God, there was some blank looks and stumbling. I waited patiently.....a minute or so went by then the older one opened the Bible, looked, then said "Jehovah". That kinda made my day.

I so love talking about God and religion but, damn, it's so hard to find anybody around town who likes talking about it too, I'll make the most of every chance I get. They didn't leave any pamphlets so I do hope they come back. Blast, such is hindsight - should have asked them for one so they would.

ghostgeek: Jehovah's Witnesses no longer call where I live. I guess they've given up dealing with the Antichrist.

chronology: Ghost. I think it is because the JWs have to be careful what they actually say. In the past I have listened to them put down the church of England and Rome. They often ranted about the government as well. But in these days of phone cameras etc they have to be careful as the local vicar could charge them with hate speech. Women vicars could also charge them with sex discrimination as JWs in the past were known to ridicule female vicars in their doorstep sermons. As for Islam, don't even go there. Muslims could take them to court for comments made about them.
I just don't think they want to risk the legal blowback.

Zanjan: I find that the JWs living in the city are very different from the JWs who live in small towns and the countryside. My experience has always been excellent with the latter. Of course, it's the same with everyone else.

We agreed that, despite evil being badder than bad these days, the city is still a place of bodies but the country is the place of souls.

In fact, I was quite impressed with the one fellow's calm demeanor and casual, non-judgmental approach. He also listened respectfully. I used to wish that I could be that calm and soft-spoken but no matter how hard I tried, I finally had to accept my personality wasn't created that way - I'll always be animated, passionate and enthusiastic about subjects I love.

Ghost, did you leave them smiling? That's important....I used to think it was fun when they ran away until I realized that was just so juvenile and stupid.

I found it interesting he had this unbreakable habit of saying "When we/you get to heaven". Where is he suggesting we're all at now? The underworld? That's quite the assumption made for others. I did try to adjust that perspective with an explanation, several times, but old habits die hard.

This is what he said about his observance of Christians in general - "Never deal with them on a Monday, they'll burn your ears, lie and steal you blind".

If hell is the opposite of heaven, and we're all in hell, it doesn't seem like his religion is very rewarding, albeit he said he likes it a lot so it was a wise choice. He was obviously sincere. He told me why he chose his religion and I shared why I chose mine. Very different reasons. Yet we did agree it all boiled down to "Free Will".

chronology: Most educated people don't believe in hell Zan. They say saying things like that makes God out to be some kind of Jeffery Dahmer or son of Sam or something. Just curious Zan, do you go along with the brainy people and think hell is a myth, or do you stand with the low intelligence people and believe in hell.

Zanjan: Heheheh. Where did you get your stats - Monty Python's Flying Circus Mag?

If one doesn't believe in hell, they haven't suffered enough. I don't envy them one bit but their time will come. So, tell me, who hasn't suffered at all? Where does that person think they are?

If one hasn't walked through hell, they haven't lived. A lot of cutters seek a taste of that.

Zanjan: Perhaps you're misinterpreting what they believe in, Chron.

Maybe they think hell doesn't exist - that is, not as a physical place. OR, maybe they don't believe hell is anything but eternal punishment. A mature person knows that's utterly futile.

Most people don't go looking for hell - they look for happiness and love. They pursue both, usually looking in all the wrong places. Some never find it. Should one stumble over it, they find it doesn't last; fear of loss sets in and they're back where they started, feeling disillusioned or burned. They're lost. There's no shame in asking for help.

God only wants our happiness; He'd help us attain our desire if we'd only accept His guidance. He takes no glee in our misery. When we pray for help, we can't be picky about what kind He sends - if we knew how, we wouldn't be praying.

He knows best so, if He sends you for a walk over hot coals, then that's what it's going to take for you to learn that happiness and love can't be chased, they have to be realized. There's only one way these can last forever - detachment from self so one can attach to God.

Hell actually has a remedial effect.

chronology: Ummmm interesting Zan.

chronology: Have to say tho. I have never met a single person in my life who found happiness or love in religion. Quite the opposite. They found church people to be pretty disgusting people.

As ever Zan I don't take sides. But I think these people seem to be describing the low class churches. If they had visited more respectable establishments they may not have been so disappointed in the clientele.

ghostgeek: I may have been a little curt with the Bible bashers knocking on my door, but as I never asked them to come in the first place, hard cheese. If they went away feeling that they'd been hit by a blast cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey, then I'd class it a job well done by me.

ghostgeek: As for religion, I think those northern lads, the Vikings, were quite happy until somebody tried to foist Christianity on them. Then they went berserk.

Zanjan: Chron, I've found that most people in religion, overall, are there because they've inherited it. Those people didn't walk the fine line and had no bridge to cross so, they're missing quite a few lessons. Not to worry, those will come.

The religion with the highest ratio of converts are the newest ones - that changes the community dynamics in a big way because they've made a leap of faith. These are the only people who are genuinely convinced God has chosen them - they feel that He picked them out of the world and brought them there. Rightly so.

Nothing of value gets handed to you on a silver platter.

For example, should I die today, my eldest son has no idea what his inheritance entails - for the first few years, this legacy will be a tremendous financial, mental and physical burden on him. Perhaps there will be days he'll wish I never gave it to him but that will pass - I have faith he's resourceful enough to handle it until the cows come home.

We shouldn't be too critical of those in religion. You see, whatever happens in it has a trickle down effect into the world. The world doesn't have the "water" to trickle up.

Zanjan: This might shed some light on that:

"Religion is the greatest of all means for the establishment of order in the world and for the peaceful contentment of all that dwell therein. The weakening of the pillars of religion hath strengthened the hands of the ignorant and made them bold and arrogant.

Verily, I say, whatsoever has lowered the lofty station of religion hath increased the waywardness of the wicked, and the result cannot be but anarchy......

Religion is a radiant light and impregnable stronghold for the protection and welfare of the peoples of the world, for the fear of God impelleth man to hold fast to that which is good, and shun all evil. Should the lamp of religion be obscured, chaos and confusion will ensue and the lights of fairness, of justice, of tranquility and peace cease to shine"

- Baha'u'llah (Gleanings) .

Zanjan: Ghost, the Vikings only went berserk when they were raiding - nobody was going to just give them what they wanted without a fight. Undoubtedly, they were quite friendly, kind and likeable at all other times.

Then there came along a really smart Viking who realized infiltration works faster, and without need of bloodshed.

ghostgeek: