Who Believes in the Devil? (Page 9) ghostgeek: It's interesting you should bring up Santa, Zanjan. I know the old chap goes way back, to the 4th century martyr St Nicholas who, by the 12th century, was associated with gift giving. Did you know, though, that it's only in recent times that he's been connected with a rotund, bearded old man, dressed in a fur-trimmed red tunic? Seems that image of him was created in 1931 to promote the sale of Coca Cola to children. Yes, big business and Father Christmas go hand in hand. No surprise then that he's the poster boy for the commercialisation of Christmas. I bet the Devil's still chuckling over it as he roasts another sinner who went into debt to pay for Christmas.  Zanjan: What about the seventh son of the seventh son? Folklore contradicts itself - on the one hand, he's been given special powers of healing by God; on the other, he's been linked to the special abilities of Satan. People have such a fascination with numbers - seven deadly sins, seven sleepers, seven-league boots, seven ages of man, seven hills of Rome, seven lucky gods of Japanese mythology, lucky seven in dice, the Seven Sages, seven sisters, seven stars, seven wonders of the world, seven celestial heavens, seven valleys. Seems to me, these are all a direct result of Christian influence because Christianity was seen as the 7th religion revealed by God. Not sure where they got that from. Personally, I count it as the 6th since recorded history but ok. ghostgeek: Lori, I hope you haven't latched onto this nonsense about an international child kidnapping ring going to the ITCCS court on April 7. The thing is, this court doesn't exist. See below: "The International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State (or ITCCS) is a one-man blog that pretends to be a tribunal established to enforce common law. Despite claims of being based in Brussels, the whole thing is written in Canada by Kevin D. Annett, a defrocked United Church of Canada minister." [ http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/International_Tribunal_into_Crimes_of_Church_and_State ]  lori100: I know....they are just trying to get some publicity to let the public know what is going on...the crimes are real.....the ITCCS previously exposed the Canadian Residential School deaths and the murder of one of the witnesses...-----------------------At least 4,000 aboriginal children died in residential schools .. news.nationalpost.com/.../at-least-4000-aboriginal-children-... National Post---- Jan 3, 2014 - At least 4,000 aboriginal children died in residential schools, commission finds ... more complete files from Library and Archives Canada and elsewhere. ... to church-run schools, where many faced physical and sexual abuse.----------------------Residential Schools Canada - Huffington Post www.huffingtonpost.ca/news/residential-schools-canada/ VANCOUVER - Carla Robinson's mother was sexually abused as a child attending two Indian residential schools in British Columbia, but her father dodged.--------------------------------cbc.ca------According to documents obtained by the CBC, some schools carried out nutritional experiments on malnourished students in the 1940s and '50s with the federal government's knowledge. (Edited by lori100) lori100: I have posted before about babies in the 1940's, 1950's being abducted from many teen moms by nuns and others and abused in Catholic hospitals. There are more allegations about crimes that happened at the Vatican.----------------kidnapped for Vatican sex parties - Daily Mail www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Gabriel-Amorth-claims-Emanuela-Orl.. Daily Mail May 22, 2012 - Missing girl 'buried in murdered mobster's tomb was kidnapped for Vatican sex parties', claims Catholic Church's leading exorcist priest.---------------Emanuela Orlandi Was 'Kidnapped For Vatican Sex Parties ... www.huffingtonpost.com/.../emanuela-orlandi-vatic... The Huffington Post May 22, 2012 - Gabriele Amorth claimed that the girl's kidnapping was a "crime of a ... Magliana mob who was killed in 1990, the Associated Press reports. (Edited by lori100) ghostgeek: It would seem you are right about those residential schools Lori. So far, something called a Truth and Reconciliation Commission has determined that more than 4,000 of the school children died. It found that thousands of Canada’s aboriginal children died in residential church-run schools, where many faced physical and sexual abuse. As for nuns, well, they seem to get up to all sorts of nefarious activities where babies are concerned. A recent story centres on the discovery of death certificates for nearly 800 babies and children at a former home for unwed mothers in western Ireland, run by the Bon Secours order of nuns from the 1920s to the 1960s. Oh dear, the Vatican also seems to be up to its eyeballa in scandal as well. Widespread rumours of an influential homosexual cabal of priests, gay sex parties, sexual assaults on minors, affairs with parishioners, priests fathering children and other inappropriate activities. Then there's the issue of corruption inside the Catholic Church and the money laundering efforts of the Vatican Bank. If that isn't bad enough we also have the tale of the missing schoolgirl, thought to have been kidnapped for Vatican sex parties and buried in a murdered gangster's tomb. If I believed in such a thing as God, it would be my considered opinion that religion was given to the world by the Devil, to bring out the worst in humanity. lori100: The Vatican is illuminati and has ties to the CIA......yes, Ireland has a terrible record of abuse of women.....and there are some who have said they have witnessed human sacrifice rituals beneath the Vatican...the rumors have persisted for many years....there is a video of the pope saying Xmas mass in front of an inverted (satanic) cross... lori100: Nationwide Child Abuse Ring In Free Discovery Channel Documentary 2006-05-01, Discovery Channel/WantToKnow.info http://www.WantToKnow.info/060501conspiracyofsilence "Conspiracy of Silence" is a powerful, disturbing documentary revealing a nationwide child abuse and pedophilia ring that leads to the highest levels of government. Featuring intrepid investigator John DeCamp, a highly decorated Vietnam war veteran and 16-year Nebraska state senator, "Conspiracy of Silence" reveals how rogue elements at all levels of government have been involved in systematic child abuse and pedophilia to feed the base desires of key politicians. Based on DeCamp's riveting book, The Franklin Cover-up, "Conspiracy of Silence" begins with the shut-down of Nebraska's Franklin Community Federal Credit Union after a raid by federal agencies in November 1988 revealed that $40 million was missing. When the Nebraska legislature launched a probe into the affair, what initially looked like a financial swindle soon exploded into a startling tale of drugs, money laundering, and a nationwide child abuse ring. Nineteen months later, the legislative committee's chief investigator died suddenly and violently, like more than a dozen other people linked to the Franklin case. ghostgeek: Sounds a lot more exciting than the grubby goings on over on this side of the "Pond". The basics are the same though. People with power getting away with behaviour that would see us hoi polloi banged up in clink for. Probably the oldest tale ever told. Zanjan: When one points the finger, let's not forget it's attached to a hand. The church was a thousand years old when popes were finally forbidden to marry, at which point, the position could no longer be hereditary. They were elected, not voted in by the people but by the like-minded - these are responsible for the result. Don't attribute the doings of those in the ancient past to modern religious individuals. Take each soul at its own value and judge fairly. We're so very blessed to be the first humans in history to have broadcast access to current, inside information - let's not abuse the privilege. If you see any religious leader doing good things, clap and cheer for support; always encourage those who are trying to do better. That pushes the devil into the tar pits. (Edited by Zanjan) ghostgeek: Well Zanjan, if you wanted a plot line for a novel the Vatican doesn't disappoint. The former pope Benedict has claimed that his resignation in February was prompted by God, who told him to do it during a "mystical experience". Benedict's reported remarks contrast with the explanation he gave to cardinals when he announced his resignation on 11 February. "My strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry," he said then. Italian newspapers have speculated he was forced to stand down. They also accuse him of governing as a 'shadow' leader because he still lives in the Vatican, uses his papal name and wears a white cassock. Earlier this month Italian newspaper Libero ran a long story reviving speculation that Benedict may have been forced to resign because of scandals in the Vatican. In 2012, Benedict's butler was arrested for leaking sensitive documents alleging corruption among Vatican prelates and irregularities in Vatican finances. Of course, this is all rumour and innuendo but it does seem to be continuing a Papal tradition. Zanjan: Our opinions boil down to one thing only - trust. Who does that matter to? History has recorded that a dark cloud moved over the face of the Vatican a long time ago; subsequently, it lost temporal power and has never gained it back again. Who judged it? While it no longer has any political influence on the world stage, is that not enough for you? Have you damned it to an eternity in hell? You do realize, of course, that no institution can stand alone. Would you deprive it of the chance to polish its tarnished image and bring love back into the community? Or do you desire that it should implode, with no hope of reconciliation or opportunity to earn favour again before the eyes of God? What would the devil want? (Edited by Zanjan) ghostgeek: If the Vatican's damned I think it managed that all by itself. I certainly didn't help it along and I doubt that the Devil had to put in much spadework either. Let's be honest here, there's nothing unique about the Vatican's problem. It's shared by many an old and diminished institution. A fancy name for it would be senescence; old age in other words. It trundles on, doing what it has always done, but the fire in the belly is missing. It has become a self serving bureaucracy, run by old men intent on benefiting themselves. Maybe the new guy can pull it around but I personally doubt it. Too many vested interests need to be overcome for that to happen. Let history be your guide. Look at all the mighty empires that have crumbled to dust, all the grand companies that are no more. Don't you think somebody tried to save them also, but to no avail. All things die, the only question is, how long it takes. (Edited by ghostgeek) ghostgeek: With the Catholic Church, I think most of the wounds are self-inflicted, though the salt is definitely provided by the media. Many, many people want to believe in the Church but constant claims of paedophile priests and corruption at the highest levels must in time weaken trust. Pope Francis may turn the ship around, but if I was a betting person I wouldn't risk money on it. In one way, of course, the problem isn't with the Church as it's behaving much as it's always done. The difference now is that the "little people", the likes of you and I, are starting to expect that it lives by its own precepts and are prepared to hold it to account. Without the political power the Vatican could once marshal I cannot see what force can save it from itself. To look on the bright side, at least the Catholic Church can still turn heads with its misdeeds. The poor old Church of England seems like a soggy cucumber sandwich in comparison. Zanjan: Well, it's like a soap opera isn't it? People tune in to its news, waiting with baited breath to see what will happen next. Yes, with all the public pressure, this new pope has the most difficult job in recent memory - he has to please the media. At least he doesn't have to deal with bloody militant Catholic groups. I'm recalling Jean Dixons' psychic prediction that there wont be any more popes after the one who was shot. Guess she got a bit ahead of herself on that one. I think they'll be around for quite awhile yet, despite shrinking membership here in the West. ghostgeek: As you can probably guess, I don't put much faith in the powers of psychics. Less to disappoint me that way. Still, I'm not going to argue with your soothsaying on the matter of Popes being around for a while longer, Zanjan. If nothing else, they still have a function as the second greatest tourist attraction on Earth, the Royals in Buck House being number one. (Edited by ghostgeek) lori100: The Royals and Vatican will eventually be gone when the public refuses to fund them any more.... ghostgeek: Lori, you do know that Prince Charles was selling Christmas hampers filled with his favourite organic food and drink for £475? In addition he's willing to flog you strawberry jam at £12 a pot and tea bags for £8.9. As long as he can keep doing that I doubt the Royals will need to worry about the public having a change of heart and turfing them out. I guess you haven't seen the pictures of Prince George that keep getting plastered on the front pages of the newspapers over here. Yuk! The Royals may be batty but they know how to survive. Now, as for the Popes, only God knows how long they'll be around. lori100: Pedophile Jimmy Saville and others are good friends with the Royals...truth is coming out------more---------http://www.examiner.com/article/bob-chapman-henry-kissinger-and-the-bushes-are-famous-pedophiles ------------------- December 11, 2009 Bob Chapman, editor of the International Forecaster who spent three years in U. S. Army Counterintelligence, and owned one of the largest gold and silver brokerage firms for years, was interviewed on the Alex Jones show Friday and shared some information about the so-called global elite. Chapman: "There is an enormous group of people who are involved in this conspiracy, and thats exactly what it is, who are pedophiles and other deviants. ---------------read this article....researchers have interviewed others who have said the same thing...... ghostgeek: Please, no more about paedophiles, I implore you. I'm sick of hearing the word. It's getting to the stage where I wonder who isn't one. Still, do you think any other country is much different? Zanjan: I was told by a woman from Lebanon they shoot their pedophiles. Certainly that would present an excellent incentive for their countryman to choose some other vice.  R E B E C C A: Jimmy Saville a good friend of the Royals.?... That's the funniest thing ive read in the forums in a while   The royal family dont mingle with commoners n he was a right clampet.....as well as a peado  | Religion Chat Room 22 People Chatting Similar Conversations |