Who Believes in the Devil? (Page 98)

ghostgeek: In that case I'm right. God and the Devil don't exist.

Zanjan: So you came to be artificial intelligence?

Zanjan: Quoting Fitzgerald: "the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function".

That sort of jives with the Bible except it says 'one can't serve two masters'. You have to pick one eventually. There's no opt-out in this program.

Zanjan: I did a devilish thing the other day. I swore I wouldn't buy another tender rose if any of mine died. I can't afford the expense and labour involved anymore.

Then that sloppy crop-sharer drifted chemicals and burned a lot of things in my yard last summer (like, for the 4th time). Some things died. A favourite tender rose died. For months, I'd been deliberating and finally caved, I ordered a replacement.

In spring and every winter, I will pay the devil for sure. But God will compensate me with the joy of its intense fragrance when it blooms. I guess you could call that a paradox.

Aspect212: This is a matter of submitting to the Lordship and authority of Christ. God vindicated Jesus' teachings when he raised him from the dead. God would not raise a heretic or a liar. Jesus affirmed the existence of the Devil. There is strong evidence for the resurrection. Read "The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Habermas and Licona. William Lane Craig also wrote a book called "Assessing the New Testament Evidence for the Historicity of the Resurrection of Jesus."

As for evidence for the existence of God, it's a cumulative case. A good place to start is by reading "On Guard," by William Lane Craig. He gives four or five good arguments for the existence of God.

Zanjan: "this is a matter of submitting to the Lordship and authority of Christ."

That applies to Christians who argue with each other over their religion. He settles their differences. Most of the time, they ignore Him anyway.

If something is true, no one owns it. We're not all so helplessly ignorant that we don't know the truths for ourselves. The Revelators just counter the liars with better speech.

Jesus didn't explain where the devil and its demons come from. He didn't have to because they already knew.

ghostgeek: Sorry to hear about your rose. It did make me wonder about your health with all those chemicals wafting by. Not the sort of thing I would like to put up with.

ghostgeek: Isn't it strange how a two thousand year old ghost story still carries a whopping big punch today. Can't be the tale itself because all reference to it died away pretty quickly, so it must be the fictional add-ons. Whoever dreamt up the first Gospel was one hell of a fiction writer.

Zanjan: There's a price to be paid for living anywhere. I left the city pollution behind and my asthma improved; just didn't realize the countryside wasn't as clean as I'd thought. It's a lot dustier, that's for sure. If it's been dry and I'm out gardening, I wear a mask in case someone drives down the gravel road - they do at least 80 kmh so a big cloud of dust envelops my yard as they speed by.

Most farmers die from cancer due to the chemicals they've used. Everyone in my husband's family got cancer because they'd been farmers. Many of those chemicals have been banned now but they still use chemicals that damage the environment. If only they killed the thistles, I wouldn't mind so much.

Zanjan: Ghost story? You can't see everything that exists but you can feel much more if it than you might realize.

Some of us are walking weather vanes. Yes, there's an explanation but it's not well understood. A stranger approaches and the hair stands up on our arm and back of neck; a different stranger approaches and nothing happens. Again, there's an explanation but not well understood. More babies are born on a full moon than any other time etc and so forth.

I could make a long list of factual things like that; the stories stick because we continue to experience them. What you call it doesn't change what it is. We accept it, even if we'll never understand more about it. Since we easily accept things that bring discomfort, we try to avoid them or reduce their impact if possible.

The devil is our "self" and the demons are those "wrongs" that come back to haunt us. We try to run, to ignore, but there's only one way out of that trap. Call it a ghost story, The Way still works.

ghostgeek: Being in the countryside too long gives me the creeps. Once I was going to take a pee and a fox came strutting round a shrub and put everything on hold. Can't say which of us was more startled but at least the animal had the courtesy to run away.

ghostgeek: The ghost story I was referring to was that recounted by Paul in his letters. How Jesus, after His death, was seen by various people. Similar events, but naturally with different protagonists, still get reported in our more scientific age.

Zanjan: The Apostles recounted those stories, told to them by those who experienced it.

Paul didn't see a ghost; he heard a voice. Jesus got into his head. What's so unusual about that? Everybody knows telepathy is real - it's just hard to control.

I, too, had heard a voice calling my name......but more than once. The voice was sharp and loud, similar to someone trying to wake you up from a deep sleep. I always responded "Who is calling me and what do you want?" Would have seriously helped if the voice had told me but I had to find out myself. In retrospect, I guess I'd heard it mostly at times when I'd given up the chase.

If God wants you, He'll get you, trust me.

ghostgeek: Paul told a whopper. Nothing unusual about that, sadly.

ghostgeek: As for the Apostles, they're the creation of a writer's pen.

ghostgeek: But the ghost story about Jesus. That rings true.

ghostgeek: As for me, it's when I'm half way between being awake and asleep that I hear invisible people speaking.

Zanjan: And what do they tell you?

ghostgeek: They don't tell me anything because they're always speaking to somebody else.

ghostgeek: It's like listening in on a conversation to which you're not invited.

MJ59: crimminy!

Zanjan: Don't get all shocked - he's got a radio alarm clock.

MJ59: Oh yeah...clock/radio

ghostgeek: No radio alarm clock. Just roll out of bed when I wake up. Beats worrying about the time.

Aspect212:

ghostgeek, I take it you don't believe in the Gospels, so I recommend you read "The Historical Reliability of the Gospels," by Craig Blomberg. The Gospels are in the genre of history, not myth. Even C.S. Lewis, an expert in mythology from Oxford University, came to believe in the Gospels, and denied the accusation that they were mythology. Read his essay, "Myth Became Fact." You might also read "Jesus and the Eyewitnesses," by Bauckham.

Jesus affirmed the existence of the Devil; and as the divine Son of God, he had the greatest credentials of anyone who ever lived. And God the Father vindicated Jesus' teachings when he raised him from the dead. God would not raise a heretic or a liar. Read, "The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Habermas and Licona.