Is There Something Wrong with the Concept of God? (Page 2)

orkanen
orkanen: Well, that doesn't speak well for you then.
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chay chayi
chay chayi: No, because aslo Jews sin, they also have a choice, everyone is responsible for himself
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orkanen
orkanen: If Archaeologists are discovered faking their findings, they will be discredited, and most likely lose their jobs. It seems one Israel Finkelstein is doing his job rather well.
http://humanities.tau.ac.il/segel/fink2/
So what if the Torah isn't correct, word for word, it is still an historical document to your people. What will you do with the facts opposing your favourite book? Discard them? Hide them? Destroy them? If so, you're no better than Muslims.
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chay chayi
chay chayi: No such thing, never will be
When i said lying, i meant even if they think they are not
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orkanen
orkanen: Does that not include you, Chayi i i?
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chay chayi
chay chayi: No, because truth can be totally proven
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orkanen
orkanen: Then prove it totally, instead of beating around the bush. You've been here for how long? Still, all we get from you are assertions, and nothing else.
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chay chayi
chay chayi: Answer; from what did space itself (not the stars and planets in it) evolve ??
2) Infinity of the space is not understood natural, and the mind doesn't recognize it

Its only from a infinite over natural God
(Edited by chay chayi)
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orkanen
orkanen: What do you mean, space itself?
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chay chayi
chay chayi: Space itself means the "place" that exists
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orkanen
orkanen: Well done, Chayi i i. That made no sense at all, and perfectly. You propose how a void is created, then assert Goddidit. I'm sorry, your proof of total truth is nothing but empty words.
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chay chayi
chay chayi: Here is the way how truth goes
God created everything and the first human - Adam in it, God revealed himself to Adam, and he knew God

Now, God does not reveal himself to everyone, but the way is that you listen to those that God revealed himself

The first sin off the truth is when you deny the truth given to you

A father will never eventually lie to his son, when he's a grown up, and if there was no such thing as God, Adam would not say to his children lies, that he himself knows that its not

So the first generation that where by those events that God revealed himself, would not lie to their children

And if God did not reveal himself to Adam, Adam or any human after him would not have such a concept at all, humans cannot imagine things only by one thing out of another, if God did not recognize human to him, human would not have such a concept of thought
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chay chayi
chay chayi: The question about God knowing and choice, is a old question asked by Maimonides
The answer is, yes he knows what people will chose

That he "cannot create a stone he can not lift", is nonsense, heaviness is not a concept to God

Why not ask; God cannot destroy himself, or create another God, all this is nonsense, the concept of God is that he's the existence, and the cause of everything and and existence that must be
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orkanen
orkanen: Chayi i i, one doesn't prove total truth by assertion. One proves it by disclosing verifiable facts, concerning the matter. Only when the facts undeniably points to a god, and specifically the god of the present Jews, will I accept them, as you state it, total truth.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Ghost: “It is also clear that human beings are held to have free will, which means that we mortals must pay for our sins in the next life.”

No, it doesn’t mean that at all. We pay for our sins in the here and now; if that didn’t happen, there would be no way to learn from our errors or execute justice. If free will didn’t exist, we’d all be God’s puppets and nobody would ever commit a wrongful act.

Free Will is the gift to us of personal choice - to either live by our base instincts or by our true spiritual nature – that of the Man, not the animal.

“Theological Determinism”: Doesn’t apply to Free Will. This is a reference to the act of creation – that is, the Plan of God, not men’s plans. Here’s a visual:

You see, God set in motion a path of events (ie., X begets X begets X)where a single touch can change the whole course of history. Think of it like setting up a long row of standing dominoes, curving this way and that. . Our individual lives are woven in and around each of those pillars like single threads, either near the bottom or the top – our choice.

Now think of the touch that knocks all of those dominoes down in a chain reaction. All that is needed is a critically placed short space between one domino and the next to define where that one-touch action ends. No man has power to interfere with this because those are the pillars of destiny.

Our Free Will acts inside these parameters.

If we’re on board with God’s Plan, we’ll flow along at the crest of the energy sweep, along the top of the dominoes, from one to the next. If not, we tighten our thread around our place, hanging on to the base; when the sweep comes, we’ve trapped ourselves between the pillars. These aren’t going to see that next leg of the journey – a bad decision on their part.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: “What if we could explain the ten plagues of Egypt, the parting of the Red Sea and God leading His chosen people in a pillar of cloud and fire,”

Doesn’t matter how we can explain it, there will always be those who oppose and don’t believe it. If you say these events were both physical and supernatural simultaneously, some wouldn’t believe that either. There are people who can’t be satisfied no matter what.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: As for the attributes of God, we don’t reflect all of them, only some. Those attributes are the perfect mold but we cant see that perfection in ordinary human beings. We can only see it in the divine Messenger God sends, the high Prophets – unlike us, they have no ego so are the Manifestations of His perfection. They're the pure and undefiled mirror of the Beauty and Wisdom of God.

They model the attributes for us to emulate. Once the cookie cutter is used, the cookie bears only the semblance of its stamp. This is why we don’t like to take photocopies of photocopies – using the original to produce a facsimile gives the highest quality representation. .

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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: I'm saying that the ten plagues, etc are the result of a volcanic eruption. A natural phenomenon, not a supernatural event.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Now the Exodus, was that a real event? Could it refer to the expulsion of the Hyksos?
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Zanjan
Zanjan: If what you say is true (I'm not opposing that) then you have to explain how Moses knew about these things beforehand, and how He was guided to the right place at the right time.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: First we have to establish that Moses was real. The story of Moses being found in the bullrushes seems to echo the story of Sargon of Akkad nearly a thousand years earlier.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Go back and read my earlier posts. Moses was pre-ordained. From the very beginning, God had it in His mind to create Moses, and fit His entrance into the world at the right place in time and location. We can see this by how the dominoes fell.

Yes, bulrushes tend to obscure, hiding the truth from those who would attempt to destroy it. Good analogy of protecting a new religion in its infancy.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: This is where our thinking differs Zanjan. I don't see anything as being pre-ordained.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Then I guess you're doomed. You'll be unable to prepare for any event.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Ever heard of the "Hymn to the Aten"? Some people compare it to Psalm 104. One has to wonder if the Israelite religion had its origins in the Egyptian worship of the Aten.
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