Genesis 3, do people really study or read the bible?

Cenababy: It is interesting to me how many people say, "I have read the bible" ! I want to say, how can you read the bible and understand it? If you read, you must study or you will lose a lot or misunderstand or worse yet, miss out on the deep meanings of the verses. I studied Genesis 3 today and have a long way to go, but here are some interesting things I found "when studying".

God said: I will put enmity between thee and the woman and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
(Emnity: the state or feeling of being actively opposed or hostile to someone or something. "enmity between Protestants and Catholics"
synonyms: hostility, animosity, antagonism, friction, antipathy, animus, acrimony, bitterness, rancor, resentment, aversion, ill feeling, bad feeling, ill will, bad blood, hatred, hate, loathing, odium) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. I will put hostility between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the ...Regarding the woman's seed: Luther, in his commentary on Genesis (Luther's Works, vol. 1, pp. 192-193, American Edition), identifies the "seed of the woman" as the coming Messiah, Jesus, and not Mary: "When we are given instruction in this passage concerning the enmity between the serpent and woman--such an enmity that the Seed of the woman (Jesus)will crush the serpent with all his powers--this is a revelation of the depths of God's goodness...[who] clearly declares that the male Seed of the woman would prostrate this enemy."[8] AMEN!

Cenababy: Paul (Galatians 3:16) gives this explanation of the word "seed" as it occurs in the patriarchal promises: "To Abraham were the promises made and to his seed. He saith not, and to his seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to his seed, which is Christ."[10]

"Strike his heel": This means that Satan will have power to tempt man but man will also have the power to withstand Satan's temptations (through Jesus)God said to Adam: : "l est (man, Adam) he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat and live for ever "" ( Jesus being "the tree of life" )

In perspective: Jesus will be "the seed" the onetwho would (will) bruise satan's head, a reference to the final and fatal blow of satan, (a bruise on the heel not normally being fatal) to be dealt on Satan and his kingdom by Jesus' suffering and death. The 'it' of course referring to the ultimate seed of the woman, Jesus Christ, who would do the bruising by His redeeming work. The enmity between two different 'seeds' refers to the constant enmity which occurs between those who are true children of God. (and those who hate them and will do all they can to resist the truth which the God believers would proclaim !

ghostgeek: Genesis 3:15

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

No need to go overboard with this verse. All it's saying is that Mankind and snakes will be natural enemies.

Cenababy: ummm that is not what that verse means, look above is what that verse means. not that man and snake will be natural enemies...good grief

ghostgeek: Genesis 3:14

"And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life."

Yes, snakes will have to crawl around on their bellies because the Serpent told the truth. Just God getting His own back because that pesky snake messed things up in the garden of Eden. A case of sour grapes on God's part, that's all.

calybonos: It's not of question of whether you read or study the Bible, but rather, how you interpret it.

And therein lies the blueprint for many an argument and war.

TheDoctor394: Yes Cena, that's what the Genesis passage speaks of. :-) In fact, it's the first prophecy in the Bible, and links the account of the Fall to Jesus' eventual salvation act.

ghostgeek: The author of Genesis lived long before Jesus sullied the Jewish world, therefore any linkage one might perceive between the Fall and the Passion is purely in the mind of the faithful. Given that the Jews hold Jesus in contempt it is beyond belief that they would be referring to Him in the opening passages of the Torah.

Cenababy: ok ghost, here is the deal, what The seed and heel is just what I blogged about. but thanks for the input, and yes, we know what satan did and didn't do!

the author of Genesis, was GOD, and he told Moses what to write. and as far as anyone is concerned that actually does study the Bible, Genesis is the first blueprint of JESUS and his coming....go read and you will see it as well. Just as the seed story is about Jesus and his striking Satan. The OT is part 1 and the coming of the Lord....

Cenababy: AMEN DOC

TheDoctor394: The thing is, a close study of the Bible reveals a completeness of its message, from Genesis to Revelation. Right from the start, we're told of God's creation of humanity, and our fall from Him through sin. That sets the scene, and the rest of the Bible is the solution to that event.

Therefore, it makes sense that there would be something early on that is a direct prophecy of the ultimate act in the solution, Christ's victory over Satan through His death and resurrection, and that's what we have in Genesis 3.

ghostgeek: Ah yes, Satan, the adversary. Note how he's not mentioned in Genesis but is in other passages of the Old Testament. He may be portrayed as a knuckle dragging ingrate but he is most definitely a servant of God. For example, he is one of the Heavenly Host that convenes before God at the beginning of the Book of Job. So, when people conflate the Serpent and Satan, what they are saying is that God tempted His creations, Adam and Eve, to see if they would err. Well, clearly they did, but what choice had they? Without the knowledge of good and evil, something they only gained after giving in to temptation, they could not know that they were doing wrong. Human justice would absolve them of all guilt, given the circumstances, which would be the laudable thing to do. God though is seen to punish the hapless pair, as well as the Serpent, for actions over which they had no control. The implication is that God plotted Humanity's banishment from Eden intentionally. If there was the exercise of sin in this drama then it was by God. Original Sin, if such a thing exists, had its origin with God, not Man. We are innocent!

Cenababy: ghost, wrong, they were told by GOD not too...and they did, and there "is the sin" they disobeyed what they were told to not do! It wasn't God setting them up, it was satan setting them up...He is the most vindictive of all, he wants to separate us from God, and so he has many....

ghostgeek: Cenababy, Adam and Eve were warned not to eat of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, that is true, but without the knowledge the tree gave them they did not know they were doing wrong. How can a person sin if they do not know the thing they are doing is wicked? God told them they would die if they ate of that particular tree but the Serpent said they would not. In reality, that's all that was involved. Eve looked at the fruit, saw that it was good and made a rational decision to try it. As it happened the Serpent was right, otherwise we wouldn't be here, would we? Now why you equate the Serpent with Satan I have no idea but it certainly cannot involve anything narrated in Genesis. I can only conclude therefore that you are indulging in the common practice of rewriting the Bible to suit your own viewpoint. Hardly something that's going to get you into Heaven if your beliefs are correct.

Cenababy: ghost not at all. Here is my deal just as we are parents, if you tell your child to NOT stick their finger in a light socket and they do?.....and yes, they died, they were not suppose to die, so the penalty was death. Satan tricked them knowing good and well they would die, but due to his revenge, he tricked her...there is another story in that itself (he tricked her)....they didn't need to know the why's the point is that GOD SAID NOT TO. So, did they kinow better? YES, without all the info granted, but they knew not to, no excuse

CoIin: @ Cenababy

Did God know in advance that Adam and Eve would "screw up" and succumb to temptation?

Cenababy: Colin, I don't know, did he? I am sure he knows our heart, yes....and I am sure he hopes that we will choose to do what's right, it is our choice, he waits to see. Perhaps he did know and was hoping they wouldn't, I am not God, nor are you, how can we know? I think sometimes that perhaps, he knows who belong to him and who do not (for sure I know this), and he knows who will choose him...maybe that's the whole point to all of this, out of the bad, there is always the good

CoIin: Cenababy

Thanks, but we're often told God knows everything - he's "omniscient".

Do you believe that too?

Cenababy: lol Colin, yes...I believe he knows our hearts as stated above, he knows who belongs to him and who does not, and he knows if we will or won't take the bait, sadly!

CoIin: Well, then, if God knows everything then He knew that Adam and Eve would succumb to temptation and sin.

Right?

Cenababy: lol, I would imagine....but here is the bottom line...are you ready????

Cenababy: THEY HAD FREE WILL!!!!!! and I would imagine that God would have hoped they would have loved him and followed him and not been deceived...God doesn't interfere with "our" choices, we are "free" to make our choices and sadly, they believed in themselves over God, and Adam (who was held to a higher standard) chose Eve over God.

CoIin: Thanks again. I thought you'd bring up free will, but I don't think it helps. The story still doesn't make sense given the following assumptions:-

(A1) : God is omniscient. He knows everything
(A2) : God is omnipotent. He is all powerful.
(A3) : God is wholly benevolent. He wants what is best for us.

Do you accept these three assumptions, Cenababy?

Now, if God is omnipotent then he could have created Adam and Eve any way he liked. Right? For example, he could have created them as obedient robots with no freedom. He could have programmed them to eat the forbidden fruit, or he could have programmed them not to eat it.

But he didn't want mindless robots. He wanted Adam and Eve to be free so he gave them free will. He endowed them with the ability to make free choices.

Do you agree with everything I've said so far, Cenababy? If not, let me know why.

So your position is that God created Adam and Eve in such a way that they could freely choose whether or not to eat the forbidden fruit, and as a consequence they succumbed and sinned.

But my question is, given that God is all powerful and wholly benevolent, surely it would have been better to create Adam and Eve in such a way that they could freely choose whether or not to eat the forbidden fruit, and as a consequence NOT succumb to sin.

If he could create them in such a way that they freely chose to sin (and he KNEW they would), why did he not create them in such a way that they FREELY chose NOT to sin?

Cenababy: good one....and will answer in a few! ....have to get coffee , lol

CoIin: Ok, thanks

Cenababy: yes God does want the best. I think that if we look at how he might feel it makes it simpler....He loves us and wants us to love him, he wants us to come to him and want/need him. We have free will, all of us to choose what we do or don't in life. He could make all of our choices, but he doesn't. Why would he want drones? I think he would rather us love and live as he has taught us, when we don't what are the consequences? Noting what Adam and Eve did, there are serious consequences. I try to look at things in a deep way in regards to God and can only imagine how he might feel when "his creations" turn away or against him. Can you imagine? Having said that, he does know all, he knows our hearts, does he wait to see what our decision will be? possibly.....he wants us to come to him. He gives us (just as a parent would) certain boundaries and guidelines, he teaches us and pats us on the back as we age and mature just as our earthly parents do, then it is what? Up to us!....perhaps we need to look at this, what if we don't want or need him (or think we don't), does he want to force us to be with him or love him? probably not! Having said all of this ofcourse, I cannot speak for him, and yes, we will not know all of the reasons or have all the answers for all the why's...I guess it is just up to us to want for a better way and life, learn from our ancestors mistakes and just be here in this world as it is and do the best we can!