Which Religion Will Rule Next? (Page 10)

GeraldtheGnome: Religions can't rule when I think of it, they aren't living entities, therefore the question asked on here, that of my answers to what will be to that question on here and that of everyone else's is irrelevant and incorrect.

GeraldtheGnome: Another thing, God may not exist since there is no evidence that God does, but since there is no evidence against his existence it is possible that he does exist. All Religions are Human Interpretations of the unknown and some have made up Books to go along with those Religions.

Zanjan: Wayne - what a wild assertion! You've challenged me to a duel so pull out that gun, Mr.

Show ONE place where I've interpreted scripture. Cut and paste the whole quote and my response. Let's see what you're made of.

sprocket girl: To claim blackshoes interpreted it wrong implies you interpreted it. Kinda hard to say ones interpretation is off base if one has no interpretation of own.

Not picking a side but Zanjan if you have not interpreted Revelations, how on Earth is Blackshoes interpretation in your opinion wrong?

Anyone who has a view on what is written in Revelations must have read it and decided what it means. Unless I no longer understand the definition of interpret it seems scripture has been interpreted.

wayne elliott: Thank you for letter Colin.

Zanjan: Sprocket: "To claim blackshoes interpreted it wrong implies you interpreted it"

Nope. You're misunderstanding something important. What Blackshoes asserted as being written in the Bible was grossly incorrect because no such words exist in the text. In effect, words were added that are not in the text. That's what's wrong.

Interpretation = translation, be it oral or written.

In the same way you hear a person speak in one language (ie Cree), you translate that language to another language (ie. English) FOR ANOTHER PERSON, who doesn't know the first language. Due to the different construction of languages, it's impossible to provide word for word conveyance - interpretation is required.

If the original script has been officially translated to English, one cannot translate that to another language from English; always, the original script must be used. Likewise, Scriptures use a divine style of language; this is perfect and must be preserved in usage for good reason. We cannot use 'other words' or another style of words-.

Therefore, "interpretation" of scripture is to change the language, telling others what it means and how they should understand it. You will NEVER find me doing that because the Word of God is Holy.

Whatever I understand of the divine language, I keep to myself; I can only offer a perspective when discussing a subject. When I use a quote, I let it stand by itself. Let others ponder on their own.

What about the Book of Revelations? I understand it in the divine language, also, as events that happened in the past. I can point to an event and say "that happened", it's in Revelations, but I cannot select specific text for the other person. They have to find it themselves. That way, I'm not interpreting text for others.

Example: Biblical text says that after their exile, the Jews would return to Israel - this was a prophecy that came true twice, according to accepted records. It also spoke of a third exile, after which their return to Israel IS a sign the Messiah has appeared. (three times the charm,eh)

Since I see all Biblical prophecies as events in the past, I can say this: after their last exile, it was not until my own generation, did the Jews return to Israel. I use historical fact and leave the rest to you.

Zanjan: On that note, there is ONE time I suggested a similarity between something said in Revelations and a familiar physical object. However, I made it clear that i found it to be an interesting correlation and, just one perspective. I didn't imply that was what the text meant.

Blackshoes: Laptop died rather than argue. Time will show to all soon enough how real all the Word is. I'll reply as soon as I replace or have my laptop repair

Zanjan: How much more time do people need to figure out what's real? Another thousand years?

chay chayi: Mindless, you're talking a lot about "humanism"
Can you explain me what "humanism is all about ?? i think you mean shorties and ass orgasm

Tomacco: or maybe it's just about loving one another no matter what race, creed or religion one follows.

Blackshoes: With unbelivers it may take Judgment Day

deuce916: Still got that vendetta against people eh.

chay chayi: Lately i'm busy with Israelies on FB

deuce916: chayiii, I like ass orgasm, what about you?

Blackshoes: No vendettas just facts .

Zanjan: Really? It makes one want to sing "who do you hate?"

Zanjan: Speaking of that, I was with my client in church today and saw something really different - they started a Sunday class for kids in high school while church was going on. Topic: "Comparing our Faith with the Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, and Islam"

Hmmm, which one is not like the other? I thought I'd love to be a fly on the wall for *that* class, though I'd have to plaster duct tape over my mouth. Quite sure they wouldn't represent those the way Baha'is would.

Well, I got a taste during the likable Pastor's sermon. Remember, this guy's a scholar, right. He told the congregation the kids would be looking at the 4 scriptures. Oddly, he didn't mention the JWs or Mormons - just went straight to Islam.

He said that Baptists believe in "Original Sin" - that is, everyone is born bad (sinful) and needs saving, by the grace of God. But Muslims don't believe that - they think everyone is born inherently good - why then would they need a saviour?

Ok, I could answer that reasoning, except they don't let you raise your hand in church unless you're singing praise to God. It was the next thing he said that flabbergasted me.

He said Muslims don't believe Christ died on the cross, they think He fled to another country and it was Judas who was crucified. Oh..........my...........God! I could only drop my jaw and shake my head - undoubtedly, not one person in that room knew what I was thinking.

This Pastor so desperately needed to be brought up to speed - by ME. When the service was over, I had to walk past him. I reminded myself in my mind to "shaddup, shaddup, shuddup". Meanwhile, I shook his hand and smiled. God would be proud of me!

Zanjan: Anyway, the main lesson is: Don't tell your people lies - they'll find out the truth on their own and you'll be eatin crow. Know your stuff before you speak.

The secondary lesson is: don't compare your religion to others - none are the same. If you want to address some topics from different religious standpoints, don't do it in the negative because you'll inadvertently cancel out your own points in the process.

ghostgeek: Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158 [ Sahih International ]

"And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise."

It would appear that Muslims dispute the fact of Jesus' crucifixion, arguing that Allah would never have dishonored His prophet by allowing Him to undergo such a death. Instead Muslims seem to believe that Jesus was miraculously caught up into heaven and that someone, perhaps Judas Iscariot, surreptitiously took His place on the cross.

Zanjan: A more respectable Official Translation -> Rodwell's translation: Sura 4: 157-58

"And for their saying, "Verily we have slain the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, an Apostle of God." Yet they slew him not, and they crucified him not, but they had only his likeness. And they who differed about him were in doubt concerning him: No sure knowledge had they about him, but followed only an opinion, and they did not really slay him, but God took him up to Himself. And God is Mighty, Wise!

Ghost, do you see the difference?

Offical Translation by George Sale:

"4:157 and have said, verily we have slain Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God; yet they slew him not, neither crucified him, but he was represented by one in his likeness; and verily they who disagreed concerning him, were in a doubt as to this matter, and had no sure knowledge thereof, but followed only an uncertain opinion. They did not
really kill him;
4:158 but God took him up unto Himself: And God is mighty and wise."

Ask any Muslim. They don't dispute that the physical Jesus died, as described in the Bible - most certainly that happened. What the Jews couldn't do was kill his soul and spirit - the Quran, and all Muslims agree with Christians He lives on; like the Bible said, 'sitting on the right hand of God'.

Zanjan: Ghost, I think you've put your own personal spin on an ancient tradition, deeply held throughout the middle east -> it's the rule that a true Prophet cant be humiliated, that no indignities can be committed on His body because God protects it. Therefore, they reason, what happens to the body is the definitive test of the credibility of the Prophet.

Over time, superstitions and literalism have crept into it, which can be applied any way one desires. The old Salem trick lets God decide the truth - tie heavy weights to their feet and throw them in the river; if they sink and drown, they're just human; if they float, they're a witch.

For the Jews, same thing. Let God decide the truth. Here's how a truth becomes a plot: In any age, the opposition would figure out ways to harm the prophet's body so they could prove to the people he was a fake - that is, only human, not a true Prophet.

You see, after Jesus died, his body was placed in the grand tomb of a wealthy Jewish sympathizer, and through Joseph's influence, Christs followers and family were permitted to tend to the body lovingly and with great respect. Then a stone was rolled over the entrance.

This frustrated the Jewish clergy, their plan wasn't going well - they'd have preferred the corpse to rot in the sun, let the birds pick out his eyes and wild dogs rip Him to shreds. How could they turn this around for themselves?

Well, you know the rest of the story as told in the Bible. Did any of those contemporary Christians know where Christ's body was re-buried? Sure, but the Bible doesn't have to tell you everything.

If you interpret text, surely you'll get stuck in it like a crude oil slick.

chay chayi: The day is close, that Christians and Muslims will faint from shame, they will see that their Jesus and Mohammed were both from the devil, and there's no religion only Judaism, and God is only among the Jews

Zanjan: The day has been close for Jews for 3 millennia. To my knowledge, there's no prophecy that makes it into 4.

Zanjan: Ghost, continuing with the "Humiliation Rule" of the Middle East, learn about the Bab, a Prophet of God in Persia (Iran) during the mid 19th century.

The Muslim clergy were responsible for having tied Him up against a wall and had him publicly shot with a firing squad. Thousands witnessed it. Afterward, they thew His body over the moat wall, hoping for wild dogs to tear Him to pieces. Well, His body mysteriously disappeared and they couldn't find it.

Guess where it ended up - in the Shrine of the Bab on Mount Carmel in Israel - the one with the ascending terraces. As it's written in scripture "They plotted and God plotted but God is the best of plotters"